Looks like the NCAA is about to go head hunting now...

#76
#76
tvols75 said:
And what evidence shows he's running the sport into the ground?
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None yet, but IMO, he can only turn the game into flag football so much before people will start to be turned off by the on-field product.

This isn't necessarily JUST a Goodell thing for me either. I'm just sick and tired of this trend in our society that grown men need the government (or a commissioner) to protect us from ourselves. Guys know when they step onto the field that they are risking their health. They are also being compensated absurdly well for those risks. If they weigh those options and still decide they want to step onto the field, why not let them play the way that football was designed to be played? It's a lot like the tv show Deadliest Catch. Those guys go up to Alaska knowing full well that they could die out there on the open sea. They also know that if they survive, they're probably going to make a ton of money during crab season. Wouldn't you think it was stupid if somebody just stepped in and said "No, you can't crab fish anymore, it's too dangerous."
 
#77
#77
bamawriter said:
What about the new coaching staff, all the employees who had no idea about Sandusky, and the people living in State College who depend on PSU football to make a living?
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And if you think PSU won't have packed football games, then you are not familiar with that culture.
 
#78
#78
tvols75 said:
Ummm yeah. You think it's not going to get through to people at a University that they need to speak up like a Baylor coach did or suffer what PSU did?
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So, if you're on a college athletic staff, and you become aware of a crime being committed, which of these thoughts is more likely to make you report it:

1) The school might get slammed with NCAA sanctions

or

2) I might spend almost a decade in prison?


If you answered 1, I can only assume that you've never heard of "prison", or you are a high-functioning retarded person.
 
#79
#79
tvols75 said:
Well we are talking about PSU here. What innocent parties are punished. The NCAA made sure to provide them any opportunity they wanted.
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Fair enough. What about the business owners in State College who are going to see their business suffer because of decreased attendance due to the football program being irrelevant for the next several years? Do you think they knew about Sandusky's crimes as well?
 
#80
#80
bleedorange0037 said:
None yet, but IMO, he can only turn the game into flag football so much before people will start to be turned off by the on-field product.

This isn't necessarily JUST a Goodell thing for me either. I'm just sick and tired of this trend in our society that grown men need the government (or a commissioner) to protect us from ourselves. Guys know when they step onto the field that they are risking their health. They are also being compensated absurdly well for those risks. If they weigh those options and still decide they want to step onto the field, why not let them play the way that football was designed to be played? It's a lot like the tv show Deadliest Catch. Those guys go up to Alaska knowing full well that they could die out there on the open sea. They also know that if they survive, they're probably going to make a ton of money during crab season. Wouldn't you think it was stupid if somebody just stepped in and said "No, you can't crab fish anymore, it's too dangerous."
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That would be the case had all the former NFL players not being throwing such a fit over all the health problems they are now suffering. You don't think that is what sparked all these changes?
 
#81
#81
bamawriter said:
So, if you're on a college athletic staff, and you become aware of a crime being committed, which of these thoughts is more likely to make you report it:

1) The school might get slammed with NCAA sanctions

or

2) I might spend almost a decade in prison?


If you answered 1, I can only assume that you've never heard of "prison", or you are a high-functioning retarded person.
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So you think only 4 people knew about it? There are lower employees that knew about it more than likely, and are now more likely to raise the issue up. It's an incentive to do right just like whistleblower programs in businesses are incentives to do right.
 
#82
#82
bleedorange0037 said:
Fair enough. What about the business owners in State College who are going to see their business suffer because of decreased attendance due to the football program being irrelevant for the next several years? Do you think they knew about Sandusky's crimes as well?
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They will be packed like always.
 
#83
#83
bamawriter said:
So, if you're on a college athletic staff, and you become aware of a crime being committed, which of these thoughts is more likely to make you report it:

1) The school might get slammed with NCAA sanctions

or

2) I might spend almost a decade in prison?


If you answered 1, I can only assume that you've never heard of "prison", or you are a high-functioning retarded person.
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Exactly. If the reason you report a pedophile to the police is to avoid your college team getting hit with NCAA sanctions, and not because of your conscience or to avoid jail time, then there's really not much hope for you anyway.
 
#84
#84
tvols75 said:
That would be the case had all the former NFL players not being throwing such a fit over all the health problems they are now suffering. You don't think that is what sparked all these changes?
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Fine, settle with those guys and make current and future players sign a waiver going forward. Make them aware of the risks, if they want to earn the money they can accept them, if they aren't comfortable with them, they can find a new profession.
 
#85
#85
bleedorange0037 said:
Fine, settle with those guys and make current and future players sign a waiver going forward. Make them aware of the risks, if they want to earn the money they can accept them, if they aren't comfortable with them, they can find a new profession.
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Not that easy.
 
#86
#86
tvols75 said:
So you think only 4 people knew about it? There are lower employees that knew about it more than likely, and are now more likely to raise the issue up. It's an incentive to do right just like whistleblower programs in businesses are incentives to do right.
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Bringing up a hypothetical to make your point is severely weak. Punishing a large group of people because some of them "might" have done wrong is horrible and destructive.
 
#88
#88
tvols75 said:
Not that easy.
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I don't really see why not. The former players really don't deserve any money from a settlement anyway, but the NFL could do it as a gesture of kindness. You can't possibly convince me that those guys went out there unaware that they were playing a dangerous game and could suffer lasting physical ailments from playing it.
 
#89
#89
bamawriter said:
Bringing up a hypothetical to make your point is severely weak. Punishing a large group of people because some of them "might" have done wrong is horrible and destructive.
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Oh come on, you do not seriously think when that creep came to campus with little kids, that it didn't make people uneasy. There were a bunch of former sports players having this discussion on the Gottlieb show, and how when stuff comes in the locker room a lot of people know. The big dogs are going down for it as is the case for most crimes. But you are naive to think there weren't many lower people that at least knew some about it and no consequences will result from it. You are covering every aspect by having a deterrent of prison and also taking away your religion in Pennsylvania.
 
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#90
#90
bleedorange0037 said:
I don't really see why not. The former players really don't deserve any money from a settlement anyway, but the NFL could do it as a gesture of kindness. You can't possibly convince me that those guys went out there unaware that they were playing a dangerous game and could suffer lasting physical ailments from playing it.
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I agree with that, and that is what the NFL argued. I think the NFL lost, didn't they? But to blame this on the commissioner when it was the players that did it is unfair.
 
#91
#91
bamawriter said:
Bringing up a hypothetical to make your point is severely weak. Punishing a large group of people because some of them "might" have done wrong is horrible and destructive.
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What a ridiculous line of thinking. "We have absolutely no way of knowing or proving who knew what and when, so we'll simply punish the entire town for 4 mens actions to make sure we get anybody else who might have known." THANK GOD the actual justice system doesn't work that way.
 
#92
#92
tvols75 said:
I agree with that, and that is what the NFL argued. I think the NFL lost, didn't they? But to blame this on the commissioner when it was the players that did it is unfair.
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Players did what? The game has been violent long before any of today's players were born. I wasn't just talking about the bounty. Although I think all the hand-wringing over it was just stupid. I was talking about the concerted effort over the past 5 years to essentially legislate defense out of the game. You can't really cover receivers anymore, you get fined for hitting too hard, you get a personal foul if you even so much as breathe too near to a QB, etc. That's what I was really talking about.
 
#94
#94
tvols75 said:
Oh come on, you do not seriously think when that creep came to campus with little kids, that it didn't make people uneasy. There were a bunch of former sports players having this discussion on the Gottlieb show, and how when stuff comes in the locker room a lot of people know.
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I'm not suggesting that no one else knew. McQueary obviously knew, along with two janitors who are no longer employed there. I think it's entirely likely that others knew as well.

But 'likely' is a far cry from 'definitely'. If you're comfortable with leveling harsh punishment based on 'likely', then you are motivated by vengeance, and not justice.
 
#95
#95
bamawriter said:
I'm not suggesting that no one else knew. McQueary obviously knew, along with two janitors who are no longer employed there. I think it's entirely likely that others knew as well.

But 'likely' is a far cry from 'definitely'. If you're comfortable with leveling harsh punishment based on 'likely', then you are motivated by vengeance, and not justice.
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And none of those 3 are charged. Dont think a guy like McQueary would've been more likely to go even further had he known his alma mater would be hammered? The NCAA and penal code in this situation covers everything.
 
#96
#96
bleedorange0037 said:
Players did what? The game has been violent long before any of today's players were born. I wasn't just talking about the bounty. Although I think all the hand-wringing over it was just stupid. I was talking about the concerted effort over the past 5 years to essentially legislate defense out of the game. You can't really cover receivers anymore, you get fined for hitting too hard, you get a personal foul if you even so much as breathe too near to a QB, etc. That's what I was really talking about.
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The players brought the lawsuits that resulted in the major rule changes. I agree with the WRs an DBS. However, the QBs being protected are a result of ratings motives. Ratings are up by the way so it's not hurting.
 
#97
#97
Lexvol said:
If they push too hard they will be obsolete soon enough. When the money dries up the college presidents will push back.
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Misquoted...sorry...clarification for Lawrence W. You can't go around laying the hammer down on successful programs and continue to put a quality product on TV. In other words if you punish everybody that is cheating...the TV money and conference earnings will dry up quickly.
 
#98
#98
tvols75 said:
And none of those 3 are charged. Dont think a guy like McQueary would've been more likely to go even further had he known his alma mater would be hammered? The NCAA and penal code in this situation covers everything.
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McQueary is no longer employed at Penn State, and wasn't at the time the NCAA acted. If the NCAA had issued a show cause on McQueary, it would have been aimed at punishing a guilty party. Alas, they did not do that.

As for the janitors, I know that one of them is in a nursing facility suffering from advanced dementia. I believe the other is dead, but I might be wrong. Either way, they weren't touched by the NCAA's actions.
 
#99
#99
GhostVol said:
Seriously? Does there NEED to be a "rule" that states raping children and covering it up will not be tolerated??
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If you're the courts, no. (since it's their responsibility and well - their rules and domains do cover that)

But really they're (NCAA) not that; people have been treating an athletics monitoring service as though they are here...perhaps out of lack of understanding or just want of quicker, more immediate action
 
#100
#100
GhostVol said:
Really?? You're going to argue that the NCAA needs this to be a "rule"??
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I think (and i havent read further) he's arguing this isn't in the NCAA's domain of responsibilities; it's in the penal system's and written into their code of rules (and some of it's even already in the Department of education's)
 
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