Looks like the NCAA is about to go head hunting now...

#101
#101
tvols75 said:
So any school that has done anything should just fire all involved and all will be good?
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And let the penal/legal/civil system deal with the rest?

How dare we leave this to the proper authorities/ courts and judges
 
#103
#103
tvols75 said:
So when an NFL player constantly breaks the law, the commissioner shouldn't suspend him?
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Completely different type of organization with a completely different setup/ set of rules though

(And to be fair - though comparison of the two here still would fit barely at best - he has punished several in the past less when they've had jail time)
 
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#104
#104
TrueOrange said:
Completely different type of organization with a completely different setup/ set of rules though

(And to be fair - though comparison of the two here still would fit barely at best - he has punished several in the past less when they've had jail time)
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He has also punished without jail time to protect integrity of league. The NCAA saw LOIC and bypassed regular requirements to rule on a unique set of circumstances to protect their image. If PSU has a problem with it then sue the NCAA but to say this opens pandora's box is dumb as the NCAA will never go "head hunting" on prestigious programs unless a unique set of circumstances like this exist as Lex points out.
 
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#105
#105
Good discussion by all. I agree with all your points for the most part. I am blinded a bit by the fact they harbored a child molester and benefited from it to see some of your logical points. I think we can all agree that they did it to appease the media outrage. Just glad no one went the route of, "Oh, you support a child molester" like I've seen in the past.
 
#107
#107
"Under the new measure, if a bowl cannot be filled by the conference affiliations, the open spots would be filled through a six-tier tiebreaking process that will consider wins versus Football Championship Subdivision teams, teams with seven losses, teams making the move to the FBS that go 6-6 and any 5-7 team with a top-five score on the Academic Progress Rate."

I vote for less Bowls!
 
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#108
#108
tvols75 said:
He has also punished without jail time to protect integrity of league. The NCAA saw LOIC and bypassed regular requirements to rule on a unique set of circumstances to protect their image. If PSU has a problem with it then sue the NCAA but to say this opens pandora's box is dumb as the NCAA will never go "head hunting" on prestigious programs unless a unique set of circumstances like this exist as Lex points out.
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This is where I take issue with their decision. IMO, they did not see LOIC, because LOIC requires a school to violate not one NCAA rule one time, but multiple NCAA rules multiple times. None of the principals in this case violated any NCAA rules. They clearly ran roughshod over PA, federal and possibly DOE laws, but not the NCAA's. The fact that nothing in their rulebook with regards to this crime should have been hint #1 that they had no jurisdiction and therefore no business handing out punishments on this case.
 
#109
#109
tvols75 said:
He has also punished without jail time to protect integrity of league. The NCAA saw LOIC and bypassed regular requirements to rule on a unique set of circumstances to protect their image. If PSU has a problem with it then sue the NCAA but to say this opens pandora's box is dumb as the NCAA will never go "head hunting" on prestigious programs unless a unique set of circumstances like this exist as Lex points out.
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If the court systems of our land did this, the people would be up in arms. PSU got no fair trial, and was basically hung by a noose to show that the NCAA wouldn't tolerate anything like this again. As much as we all love a good western at times, this isn't the wild west, and we have laws to protect people, even the guilty to a point. However, the NCAA superseded it's own laws, and went vigilante.

The people who were involved in the cover-up deserve every punishment they get, within our laws. PSU, not so much.
 
#110
#110
An honest question as well for those who support the NCAA's decision to get involved.....

What did the NCAA do to ever prevent this from happening again??

If your answer is anything except "nothing", then you are honestly pretty naive to think that reducing some schollies and fining a university, is going to keep some sicko from molesting children.
 
#111
#111
g8terh8ter_eric said:
An honest question as well for those who support the NCAA's decision to get involved.....

What did the NCAA do to ever prevent this from happening again??

If your answer is anything except "nothing", then you are honestly pretty naive to think that reducing some schollies and fining a university, is going to keep some sicko from molesting children.
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Money....if you think the AA is going to go around killing programs at a whim...think again. They like money too.

Also, keep in mind that other schools will have the will and grounds for appeal. That was sorely lacking with PSU...as it should have been.
 
#112
#112
Lexvol said:
Money....if you think the AA is going to go around killing programs at a whim...think again. They like money too.

Also, keep in mind that other schools will have the will and grounds for appeal. That was sorely lacking with PSU...as it should have been.
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So, basically the NCAA put a price on what it will cost you to molest a child, no?? You can't put PSU in jail, so just set a price instead.
 
#113
#113
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, basically the NCAA put a price on what it will cost you to molest a child, no?? You can't put PSU in jail, so just set a price instead.
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No...I'm saying they would head hunt themselves out of business. If you put all the cheaters on probation people will find other things to do with their Saturday afternoon and evenings. Revenues go away...

College presidents won't let it happen.
 
#114
#114
Lexvol said:
No...I'm saying they would head hunt themselves out of business. If you put all the cheaters on probation people will find other things to do with their Saturday afternoon and evenings. Revenues go away...

College presidents won't let it happen.
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I would take zero problem with the NCAA taking a school down that was constantly committing recruiting violations, and trying to gain a competitive advantage over everyone else by cheating. Yet, PSU broke no NCAA laws, and instead broke laws of the land, and didn't even get a "real" investigation by the NCAA into anything.

There is two things that the NCAA accomplished by ruling against PSU....

1. Power, and almost absolute power at that.
2. Playing a morality monitor.

People get mad when they see the government try to legislate morality, for the good of the people. Yet, I would be willing to bet that some of those same people agree with the NCAA's to punish PSU, when it really had no grounds within it's own rules to do so.
 
#115
#115
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I would take zero problem with the NCAA taking a school down that was constantly committing recruiting violations, and trying to gain a competitive advantage over everyone else by cheating. Yet, PSU broke no NCAA laws, and instead broke laws of the land, and didn't even get a "real" investigation by the NCAA into anything.

There is two things that the NCAA accomplished by ruling against PSU....

1. Power, and almost absolute power at that.
2. Playing a morality monitor.

People get mad when they see the government try to legislate morality, for the good of the people. Yet, I would be willing to bet that some of those same people agree with the NCAA's to punish PSU, when it really had no grounds within it's own rules to do so.
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They already had all the power they wanted. Nobody has ever regulated the GestAApo. Other schools will have the will and the means to fight back. PSU didn't have a leg to stand on.
 
#116
#116
Lexvol said:
They already had all the power they wanted. Nobody has ever regulated the GestAApo. Other schools will have the will and the means to fight back. PSU didn't have a leg to stand on.
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Someone will find a way to go up against the NCAA for PSU. I even wonder if the government itself might get involved down the road.
 
#119
#119
bamawriter said:
Since a finding of LOIC first requires the finding of another violation, what violation did PSU commit?

Seems like I've asked that question 200 times without ever getting an answer.
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Covering up potential child molestation charge from a coach on the payroll. LOImf'nC. What part of that is so hard to understand?
 
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#120
#120
volger said:
Covering up potential child molestation charge from a coach on the payroll. LOImf'nC. What part of that is so hard to understand?
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http://www.athletics.illinois.edu/compliance/pdfs/institutional/Principles-of-Institutional-Control.pdf

Tell me where it says in there, that LOIC can be defined as harboring or covering up a child molestation, that has nothing to do with NCAA bylaws. Don't try and bend it to what you believe it is, read it verbatim and tell me how it can be determined that any NCAA rules were broken, and were broken on a rate consistent with LOIC according to NCAA rules.
 
#121
#121
FYI:

NCAA says no to Paterno family appeal of sanctions

"The Paternos' letter, obtained by Onward State, an online news organization serving the Penn State community, states that the NCAA "acted hastily and without any regard for due process" and that the Freeh Report is "deeply flawed because it is incomplete, rife with unsupported opinions and unquestionably one-sided." The Paterno family also had requested an in-person argument before the Infractions Appeals Committee, the letter states.
 
#122
#122
tvols75 said:
Considering that immediate action was taken and the basketball program didn't harbor a murderer and a pathetic coach, I would say it was very different. If someone had stood up back in the 90s, the punishment would have been the same as Baylor's.
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You Sir know your facts. I'm still waiting for the NCAA to strip PSU of all OOC games for a season!!!
 
#123
#123
tvols75 said:
Considering that immediate action was taken and the basketball program didn't harbor a murderer and a pathetic coach, I would say it was very different. If someone had stood up back in the 90s, the punishment would have been the same as Baylor's.
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There was an investigation, and the DA couldn't get enough evidence to charge Sundusky, or send it to trial for that matter.
 
#125
#125
g8terh8ter_eric said:
There was an investigation, and the DA couldn't get enough evidence to charge Sundusky, or send it to trial for that matter.
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I'm not too sure about that one. There was certianly some evidence there, even a confession from Sandusky that he showered naked with one of the victims back in 1998 in the grand jury report in November of 2011.

Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Department of Public Welfare, testified that during the 1998 investigation, Sandusky was interviewed on June 1, 1998, by Lauro and Detective Schreffler. Sandusky admitted showering naked with Victim 6, admitted to
hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admitted that it was wrong. Detective Schreffler advised Sandusky not to shower with any child again and Sandusky said that he would not.
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- source
 
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