Making a Murderer (w/ Spoilers)

[Creeker]

Ah yes, the confession that was fed to him by his own counsel's hired investigator. That oh so believable confession that can't be corroborated by physical evidence, nor common sense.

But it's on the Internet so it's true right?

 

[Sandvol]

Ah yes, the confession that was fed to him by his own counsel's hired investigator. That oh so believable confession that can't be corroborated by physical evidence, nor common sense.

No this is the one where it is just him and the police detectives. If you'll read it you'll see that he knows things about the crime that only someone present would know. Things the police did not point out or bring up until he did. Read his account and tell me he wasn't involved.

 

[Sandvol]

But it's on the Internet so it's true right?

This is a public pdf copy from the Wisconsin State Court.

 

[Sandvol]

Ah yes, the confession that was fed to him by his own counsel's hired investigator. That oh so believable confession that can't be corroborated by physical evidence, nor common sense.

I'm trying to understand you Bama. You think Avery is guilty or not?

 

[bamawriter]

No this is the one where it is just him and the police detectives. If you'll read it you'll see that he knows things about the crime that only someone present would know. Things the police did not point out or bring up until he did. Read his account and tell me he wasn't involved.

It's just him and detectives, true (although it is absolutely baffling and unethical that his attorney would let him speak to the cops alone). But this is one day after the marathon session with his attorney's investigator. The detectives even mention talking to his attorney the day before at the very beginning of the transcripts.

It's not that unusual that he brought up facts that no one could possible know, because none of those facts are borne out by the physical evidence. So the cops couldn't have even known whether they were true or not, because they didn't have anything with which to corroborate them.

 

[bamawriter]

I'm trying to understand you Bama. You think Avery is guilty or not?

I believe that Avery, in all likelihood, killed Teresa Halbach.

I do no believe that Brendan Dassey was involved.

This is not a contradictory stance, given the fact that none of the evidence acquired from Brendan Dassey was used against Steven Avery. In fact, the DA proceeded against Avery with the theory that he acted alone.

 

[Sandvol]

I believe that Avery, in all likelihood, killed Teresa Halbach.

I do no believe that Brendan Dassey was involved.

This is not a contradictory stance, given the fact that none of the evidence acquired from Brendan Dassey was used against Steven Avery. In fact, the DA proceeded against Avery with the theory that he acted alone.

When you say Brendan Dassey was not involved what do you mean?

 

[Sandvol]

It's just him and detectives, true (although it is absolutely baffling and unethical that his attorney would let him speak to the cops alone). But this is one day after the marathon session with his attorney's investigator. The detectives even mention talking to his attorney the day before at the very beginning of the transcripts.

It's not that unusual that he brought up facts that no one could possible know, because none of those facts are borne out by the physical evidence. So the cops couldn't have even known whether they were true or not, because they didn't have anything with which to corroborate them.

Not true.

 

[bamawriter]

When you say Brendan Dassey was not involved what do you mean?

I mean that I see absolutely no evidence that he was involved in her death or disposal. His confessions were as obviously coerced as one is ever likely to find, and there is no physical evidence that backs them up.

Again, the "evidence" that he provided was so useless that it was not even entered into the Avery trial. I'm conviced that if Ken Kratz hadn't held the press conference where he revealed all the details of Dassey's "confession" to the public, the State would never have brought charges against Dassey.

 

[bamawriter]

Not true.

Name one piece of evidence that corroborates Dassey's confession, other than the bullet that miraculously appeared after months of searching, and only after Dassey had placed the death scene in the garage.

 

[loggervol]

When you say Brendan Dassey was not involved what do you mean?

And you're questioning my comprehension skills??... Oy vey.

 

[PotS]

This one. I know you probably won't read or comprehend it but here you go. Is Google a difficult concept for you?

http://convolutedbrian.com.s3.amazonaws.com/dassey/13May2006/13May06Transcript.pdf

Yeah, I read it.

Right off the top, this confession happened with Len Kachinsky still as his attorney. Not at the time, but now after the fact, I hope we can all agree that Len Kachinsky was working FOR Ken Kratz against Steven Avery, and his whole ambition was to get Brendan to give a deposition in support of using it again Steve Avery. That said, I have a hard time believing ANYTHING that's in this deposition.

So moving on, they pick up a pair of bleached jeans from Brendan's house. Do these jeans get entered as evidence in the trial? These are supposedly the jeans he was wearing when they cleaned up after Teresa's murder.

And in the linked deposition above, Brendan's explanation on page 5 is a recap of something he's told the investigators previously (which sounds totally rehearsed, because I've never heard or seen Brendan put that many words together in one sitting), and then it immediately goes into the back and forth "Is there anything else?" "No." "What about this?" "Oh yeah" "Why didn't you tell us?" "I didn't remember".

I'm sorry SandVol, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Is Steve Avery guilty? Yeah, maybe. Is Steve Avery innocent? Yeah, maybe. I certainly couldn't send a man to prison for life based on the evidence presented, and I certainly can't view anything Brendan says with an unbiased eye. All I see in Brendan is a coerced confession which the DA used to place evidence.

 

[loggervol]

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

The only physical evidence found on the Avery's property was. a bullet fragment found in the garage. sweat found on the hood latch and blood found inside of the car. Bone fragments found in the bonfire pit and other places on the property.

OK

Now, where the bullet was found, no other DNA was found. No blood, no hair, and no brain matter.

The evidence found on and in the car was found but no fingerprints were found. Kinda strange don't you think.

Bone fragments. Yes there were bone fragments found on the property but there were bone fragments found in a burn barrel that was ten miles away from the property.

There was no other DNA found on the Avery's property. No blood, no hair or any other DNA. That means, as many times as she was supposed to have been moved on the property. A person would think that there would be other physical evidence..???

 

[Sandvol]

Yeah, I read it.

Right off the top, this confession happened with Len Kachinsky still as his attorney. Not at the time, but now after the fact, I hope we can all agree that Len Kachinsky was working FOR Ken Kratz against Steven Avery, and his whole ambition was to get Brendan to give a deposition in support of using it again Steve Avery. That said, I have a hard time believing ANYTHING that's in this deposition.

So moving on, they pick up a pair of bleached jeans from Brendan's house. Do these jeans get entered as evidence in the trial? These are supposedly the jeans he was wearing when they cleaned up after Teresa's murder.

And in the linked deposition above, Brendan's explanation on page 5 is a recap of something he's told the investigators previously (which sounds totally rehearsed, because I've never heard or seen Brendan put that many words together in one sitting), and then it immediately goes into the back and forth "Is there anything else?" "No." "What about this?" "Oh yeah" "Why didn't you tell us?" "I didn't remember".

I'm sorry SandVol, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Is Steve Avery guilty? Yeah, maybe. Is Steve Avery innocent? Yeah, maybe. I certainly couldn't send a man to prison for life based on the evidence presented, and I certainly can't view anything Brendan says with an unbiased eye. All I see in Brendan is a coerced confession which the DA used to place evidence.

That's all you got out of his confession was the bleached jeans?

 

[bamawriter]

That's all you got out of his confession was the bleached jeans?

I'm not sure what you got out of it, but there is no physical evidence that corroborates Dassey's confession. The only evidence that can even generously be called corroborative was the bullet that was found after the confession. So, quite literally, the cops had absolutely no contemporary evidence that could lend any weight to Dassey's story. None.

 

[Sandvol]

Name one piece of evidence that corroborates Dassey's confession, other than the bullet that miraculously appeared after months of searching, and only after Dassey had placed the death scene in the garage.

I've already done that in several posts and if you'd read the confession you'd see for yourself.

 

[GAVol]

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

The only physical evidence found on the Avery's property was. a bullet fragment found in the garage. sweat found on the hood latch and blood found inside of the car. Bone fragments found in the bonfire pit and other places on the property.

OK

Now, where the bullet was found, no other DNA was found. No blood, no hair, and no brain matter.

The evidence found on and in the car was found but no fingerprints were found. Kinda strange don't you think.

Bone fragments. Yes there were bone fragments found on the property but there were bone fragments found in a burn barrel that was ten miles away from the property.

There was no other DNA found on the Avery's property. No blood, no hair or any other DNA. That means, as many times as she was supposed to have been moved on the property. A person would think that there would be other physical evidence..???

The lack of blood in the garage or bedroom is hard for me to get past. It's impossible for me to believe that Avery or Dassey were that smart or thorough. That garage was full of junk and nearly impossible to clean. I don't buy that the guys that did a comically bad job of hiding the car supposedly scrubbed a house and garage clean of evidence after raping a woman and slashing her throat and shooting her.

 

[bamawriter]

I've already done that in several posts and if you'd read the confession you'd see for yourself.

I have read the confession and your previous posts. For lack of photographic memory on my part, could you please list the physical evidence that corroborates Brendan Dassey's confession? Because I understand the frustration that comes along with repeating oneself in writing, a list of bullet points would be fine for bringing me up to speed.

 

[Sandvol]

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?

The only physical evidence found on the Avery's property was. a bullet fragment found in the garage. sweat found on the hood latch and blood found inside of the car. Bone fragments found in the bonfire pit and other places on the property.

OK

Now, where the bullet was found, no other DNA was found. No blood, no hair, and no brain matter.

The evidence found on and in the car was found but no fingerprints were found. Kinda strange don't you think.

Bone fragments. Yes there were bone fragments found on the property but there were bone fragments found in a burn barrel that was ten miles away from the property.

There was no other DNA found on the Avery's property. No blood, no hair or any other DNA. That means, as many times as she was supposed to have been moved on the property. A person would think that there would be other physical evidence..???

You're just a bundle of misinformation. The quarry burn location is about 2990 ft. from the Avery burn pit and about 2400 ft. from Teresa's RAV 4. Two small bone fragments at the quarry were identified as human pelvis but weren't positively identified as Teresa Halbach's. (He might have murdered someone else.) It is easily possible the dogs could have moved the bones such a short distance if they were Teresa's. The bones were intermingled with other bones at the quarry probably animal bones. The bones in the quarry were probably nothing more than a red herring. Also, Dassey, in his confession said they were moving her remains throughout the property to get rid of them.

 

[Sandvol]

I have read the confession and your previous posts. For lack of photographic memory on my part, could you please list the physical evidence that corroborates Brendan Dassey's confession? Because I understand the frustration that comes along with repeating oneself in writing, a list of bullet points would be fine for bringing me up to speed.

Why don't you re-read the confession and we can list them together? That way we make sure we don't forget any.

 

[bamawriter]

Also, Dassey, in his confession said they were moving her remains throughout the property to get rid of them.

This is yet another instance where the theory of the crime doesn't match the confession.

Half a week went by between the murder and the discovery. If they were planning to move the bones throughout the property, why did they do such a terrible job? And if they did move the bones somewhere besides the pit, the barrel, and the quarry, why were no bones found anywhere else?

Your theory is full of contradictions:

They were dumb enough to leave the car where it could be found, and to have failed to clean the car, and to have left the remains on the property, and to have left the bullet and the key where they could be found...

AND YET

They were brilliant enough to clean, to professional levels (if not beyond), a dump of a trailer and a filthy, cluttered garage to the point that not a single drop of blood or any other DNA could be found.

I'm sorry, but they cannot be both that dumb and that brilliant.

 

[bamawriter]

Why don't you re-read the confession and we can list them together? That way we make sure we don't forget any.

I already made a list:

The bullet, which was found post-confession, and was thus not contemporaneously corroborative.

That's it. If you have anything to add to the list, please do.

 

[loggervol]

You're just a bundle of misinformation. The quarry burn location is about 2990 ft. from the Avery burn pit and about 2400 ft. from Teresa's RAV 4. Two small bone fragments at the quarry were identified as human pelvis but weren't positively identified as Teresa Halbach's. (He might have murdered someone else.) It is easily possible the dogs could have moved the bones such a short distance if they were Teresa's. The bones were intermingled with other bones at the quarry probably animal bones. The bones in the quarry were probably nothing more than a red herring. Also, Dassey, in his confession said they were moving her remains throughout the property to get rid of them.

It may be wrong but the thought is, that the burn barrel had been moved to the quarry and then moved back.

Could they not get a DNA profile from the bones found at the quarry?

 

[Sandvol]

It may be wrong but the thought is, that the burn barrel had been moved to the quarry and then moved back.

Could they not get a DNA profile from the bones found at the quarry?

No, they got a DNA profile of Halbach from one of the bone fragments in the burn barrel that had tissue on it.

 

[Sandvol]

I already made a list:

The bullet, which was found post-confession, and was thus not contemporaneously corroborative.

That's it. If you have anything to add to the list, please do.

I don't know if the bullet was found post confession but if so it even lends more credence to his confession. It was only a 22 fragment and would make sense to me that once Dassey told them Avery shot her in the garage they would return and look for bullet fragments. In the clutter they wouldn't necessarily be easy to spot. Then this fragment was matched to Avery's rifle in the evidence locker and coincidently had Halbach's DNA on it.