Manning / Brady -

#126
#126
VolsSportsFan said:
Yeah if you're a simpleton, that's all you look at. And it's not like that argument has been done to death as well.

And depends when the game is on the line. Regular season, yeah Manning. Playoffs? Different Manning.
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The best was when someone brought up San Frans record the year after Joe left...
 
#128
#128
BadJerry20 said:
Agreed. The Super Bowl champ for the next couple is an NFC West team, once Kaep and Wilson get paid things will change for those 2 teams. People keep talking Seattle as a dynasty, they were a poor decision away from not making the Super Bowl. They have young talent, but that young talent will be getting paid very soon.
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I actually like the rosters in Arizona and St. Louis too. The NFC West is the new black and blue division. They are obviously a rung below Seattle and San Fran but have some good young talent.
 
#129
#129
BadJerry20 said:
The best was when someone brought up San Frans record the year after Joe left...
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It is unfortunate how Montana and Manning were forced out of their teams. I kind of look at Young and Aikman like Manning and Brady. I thought Young was a better QB but Troy had the better team.
 
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#130
#130
VolsSportsFan said:
Yeah if you're a simpleton, that's all you look at. And it's not like that argument has been done to death as well.

And depends when the game is on the line. Regular season, yeah Manning. Playoffs? Different Manning.
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haha a simpleton...actually it shows the best comparison of who is needed the most on a team as an individual. No other way you can look at that. It proves that the scheme on offense and the defense Brady has had, has been a major factor in him winning the superbowls he has. 18-0 and Brady didn't win the last game of the year against Peytons brother. Eli = better than Brady and Peyton I suppose.
 
#131
#131
It seems like people view it one of two ways. Stats or post season performance. The only categories where Brady has an edge on Manning is the post season. Whether it's passing yards, TD's, Pro Bowls, All-Pro Teams, completion percentage... Manning is ahead of Brady.

So it comes down to how much weight is put on what.

Then there are the intangibles. What they bring to the game, ability to raise the performance of those around them. Take a guy like Dallas Clark, he's no Gronk or Hernendez, yet he caught 100 balls in 2009, made the Pro Bowl...since then his best season is 47 balls with Tampa in 2012. Wes Welker played with both Brady and Manning, albeit just one season with Manning. His career high for TD's was this season (10) despite playing in the least amount of games in the regular season (13).

The truth is...it's probably better to wait until these guys have finished their careers to have the debate. Records are made to be broken, Brees has some years left and guys like Luck and Stafford and Newton will own some records in the end.

As a life long Steeler fan, Terry Bradshaw has the rings and if that's where the weight goes, it's fine with me! Do I think he was the best to ever play the position? Of course not.
 
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#132
#132
CTVolsfan14 said:
Just wondering cause I'm curious. I know I'm going to get killed for this, but I really have to ask. I'm a diehard Vols / Patriots fan. I love Peyton and Timmy Tommy Brady equally probably as much as anyone. I like to think because of that I'm pretty unbaised when it comes to this argument.. but To people who think Peyton is the greatet ever, why? cause he wore orange?

Was last night Peytons fault? Absolutely not. But he still had 3 pro bowl caliber recievers.. a pro bowl caiber tight end. a running back who will get a nice 4 year deal somewhere in FA.. and he laid a "duck" in the big one. Seattle had the better team.. but irregaurdless. If Rodger, Brady, or even frieken Romo played like that last night they get crucified.. Peyton gets the free pass.. why?

The worst part of the game to me as i was not even surprised to see peyton struggle so much. Tom Brady missed 2 throws in the AFC title and that STUNNED me. I saw Tom Brady take a band of misfits to 13 wins and I saw Peyton (With phenom. stats) have the most talented offense in the league since 07 pats play horrendously.


SO FINALLY I ASK - why do my vol fans so strongly believe Peyton is better then Brady? Is it the stats? As a patriot vol fan.. I'm taking Tom.. 100 out of 100 times. Peyton is the GREATEST regular season qb ever.. but that isnt whats most important.. ask Dan marino.

and to you, if the SB race ends 3-1 brady, (i think its likely atleast one of them wins again), how do youjustify Peyton over Brady?

Just to be clear.. this isnt about last night. Seattle dominated, period. This is comparing Brady from 2000-present to Manning 99-present.
just curious.. sorry for the length.:peace2:
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Peyton elevates the players around much like Brady does now but when Brady was winning all those Championships he had a better supporting cast defensively. Ironically since the Patriot defense has decline so has Brady's championships. Its unfortunate Manning never played for an organization for which everything, defense, special teams, and offense came together at the right point in history to win multiple Super Bowls. Eli Manning has been lucky in that regard. The fact the Peyton has went two Superbowls with two different franchise speaks volumes to the type of player he is. I'm not entirely sure but I think Kurt Warner may be the only other QB to do that. I know for sure there has never been a QB to win two super bowls with two different franchises. It just doesn't happen. Peyton has never been on a team with a great defense. Defense wins championships, everyone knows that. This emphasis on the QB has gone too far in my opinion. 5 times the number one offense and defense in the league have met in the Super Bowl, do you wanna guess the outcome of 4 out of those 5?

Now i'm not arguing that Peyton is better then Brady because its certainly subjective, relative and hardly objective because football is a team sport. While a QB touches the ball every play and is a focal point of the offense, and is usually a major deciding factor in winning championships, they are hardly the end all be all of the sport. QBs live and die by the support cast around them. For example Eli Manning has beat your Patriots twice for Super Bowl championships does that mean Eli Manning is better then Brady? Certainly not. If Superbowl's were the only thing that mattered in determining greatness we would be having an entirely different discussion. Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, and Joe Montana have never lost super bowls, are they better then Brady? According to that criteria alone yes. Dan Marino is still great despite not winning a Super Bowl. Sure Super Bowls elevate a QBs status to another level but I find it interesting that we really don't use that criteria for any other position. We forget football is the ultimate team sport.

I think most Vol fans will take Manning because he's a Vol. While its not rational, fandom isn't rational, its fanaticism for a reason. I hardly fault them for it.
 
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#133
#133
thebjd said:
I actually like the rosters in Arizona and St. Louis too. The NFC West is the new black and blue division. They are obviously a rung below Seattle and San Fran but have some good young talent.
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No doubt that's the best division in football. IMO
 
#134
#134
thebjd said:
It is unfortunate how Montana and Manning were forced out of their teams. I kind of look at Young and Aikman like Manning and Brady. I thought Young was a better QB but Troy had the better team.
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I'm always torn with the way S.F. handles the old guys. I wanted Lott, Rice, Montana to retire there, but they are smart not to keep paying players on the downside of their careers. I think Young>>>>>Aikman.
 
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#137
#137
This is pretty simple.

Put Manning on the Patriots or Brady on the Colts or Broncos and ask yourself if their respective records stay the same.

My opinion is that, over their respective careers, Belichick coached teams>>>>>> Dungy, Caldwell, or Fox coached teams.
 
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#139
#139
CTVolsfan14 said:
I'm just legit wondering..i understand its the orange cool aid.. its just getting hard to keep making excuses for peyton over brady..thats all
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The arguments will inevitably fall back on Brady having the better TEAM. When Brady won his championships he had the better TEAM. It was more about his TEAM and not about Brady. When Peyton won his championship, it was because of him and not his team. It's ridiculous. They are 2 of the best to ever play but after last night its even harder to argue Peyton over Brady.
 
#140
#140
JonGrudensAgent said:
This is pretty simple.

Put Manning on the Patriots or Brady on the Colts or Broncos and ask yourself if their respective records stay the same.

My opinion is that, over their respective careers, Belichick coached teams>>>>>> Dungy, Caldwell, or Fox coached teams.
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I actually think Brady would have more rings. This season is proof of that. When your leading receiver is Julian Eldleman, make it to the AFC championship and have the 3rd ranked offense in the NFL that is impressive.
 
#141
#141
BigOrangeTrain said:
The arguments will inevitably fall back on Brady having the better TEAM. When Brady won his championships he had the better TEAM. It was more about his TEAM and not about Brady. When Peyton won his championship, it was because of him and not his team. It's ridiculous. They are 2 of the best to ever play but after last night its even harder to argue Peyton over Brady.
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Brady was at home watching because Peyton beat him. It is fairly easy to argue Peyton over Brady.
 
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#148
#148
BigOrangeTrain said:
I actually think Brady would have more rings. This season is proof of that. When your leading receiver is Julian Eldleman, make it to the AFC championship and have the 3rd ranked offense in the NFL that is impressive.
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I don't see any way that Brady has more rings playing for Indy than playing for New England.

I think Manning in New England wouldn't have enough fingers on one hand for the rings though.

I think this season more than any other is proof of just how much better Belichick is than everyone else. The reason Edleman became their no. 1 receiver is that their best receiving threat, Gronkowksi, missed half the season.

Pull Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne out of Indy with Manning at the helm and ask yourself how Dungy or Caldwell would have reacted.

I am not a Brady hater by any stretch, one of the few people who will admit to liking the guy, but he has had the benefit of a better coaching staff and more balanced teams over the course of his careers.
 
#149
#149
JonGrudensAgent said:
I don't see any way that Brady has more rings playing for Indy than playing for New England.

I think Manning in New England wouldn't have enough fingers on one hand for the rings though.

I think this season more than any other is proof of just how much better Belichick is than everyone else. The reason Edleman became their no. 1 receiver is that their best receiving threat, Gronkowksi, missed half the season.

Pull Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne out of Indy with Manning at the helm and ask yourself how Dungy or Caldwell would have reacted.

I am not a Brady hater by any stretch, one of the few people who will admit to liking the guy, but he has had the benefit of a better coaching staff and more balanced teams over the course of his careers.
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Certainly not the only reason-but one major reason why NE won so much during that time was their LBs. Peyton is on record for expressing admiration for that corps. They were a nasty and monster bunch that were all but beyond incredible.
 
#150
#150
Brady's defense was instrumental in all his super bowl wins. Give Peyton that defense he would have no less than 3 super bowl wins.
 
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