Manning / Brady -

#101
#101
seattle would have pushed the patriots $hit in last night and tommy "tard" brady would be seeing stars by the 4th quarter.
 
#102
#102
CTVolsfan14 said:
This just shows how un intelligent people are. Belichick...the same dude who had a losing coaching record both in CLE AND NE before Brady..

Brady MAY have gotten 1 in indy? lol.. he MAY have atleast 5 rings if he had the roster peyton had. I don't talk opinion I talk facts. facts are peyton has played with more than twice the amount of probowlers Brady has
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How many Colts games did you watch over the years?
 
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#103
#103
DeansRedHalo said:
Probably. The rings argument is all people ever toss out when it comes to Brady. Obviously they can't pull stats or MVPs or reg season performance. So it's all about the postseason and the rings.

I don't advocate one stance over the other (caveat here that I prefer PM, but for a different reason), I think the whole picture is important to look at. Just saying "hey, this guy won a bunch of SBs" or "but this guy has great stats" isn't quite it.

I place Peyton as the current GOAT or at the very least top 3 because of what he did for the position. How he completely changed the position and the way offenses (and defenses for that matter) play in the highest level of professional football. Spent the majority of his career calling his own game with great success. For me, it's just looking at the impact a player's had on their position, their peers, the game overall...and then the fact that he has great stats, he's overcome what should have been career-ending injuries, he's a class act, and he has a ring (so all those chest-beaters can STFU about it).
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I agree with that, just saying rings or stats are silly arguments. Brady fans would probably say stats if role were reversed. I do think Manning is top 3, I personally have Montana one (I wish I could argue Young as he's my favorite QB), but it just depends on criteria and everyone's is different. Nobody is really right or wrong in this conversation honestly.
 
#104
#104
Manning just hasn't had much luck when it comes to big games--and it goes all the way back to our game against florida when he was here. But then the teams just weren't good enough. We weren't as good as those florida teams--and Manning carried those indy teams on his back (though I did think Indy chocked against pittsburgh in 2005, and they certainly could have beaten the saints but have to credit payton for that onside kicked that changed the game). Manning creates all these expectations because he's been so good for so long--but he's a snakebit when it comes to big games. I mean, when your center snaps the ball over your head for a safety on the first play of the game, it is a portent of trouble.
 
#105
#105
KingNick865 said:
Indianapolis average league defensive rank during Peyton's tenure (1998-2010) (yards allowed) - 14.4

Denver average league defensive rank during Peyton's tenure (2012-2013) (yards allowed) - 11.5

New England average league defense rank since Brady started for them in 2001 (yards allowed) - 16.9
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Check out the PAs during their Super Bowl runs.
 
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#106
#106
KingNick865 said:
So you'll take most every coach in the league?
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Seriously? One, and only one coach has been busted this century for cheating - Belichick. They have very damning statistics to show that the Pats pulled it to such an extent that a measurable advantage was gained by them - hence the $500K max fine that he received.

AV
PS. "Bounty-gate" by Payton was unsavory behavior, but trying to hurt other players isn't "cheating", per se.
 
#107
#107
thebjd said:
Brady wasn't there either and do you think if he was the QB of the Broncos last it would have made a difference? Seattle wrapped Denver in Peter McNeeley's coccoon of horror last night.
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Honestly Brady and Manning are the wrong kind of QB to beat Seattle with, it's just a bad match up. A scrambling QB is needed to keep Seattle's dbs looking in the backfield a little. If they don't have to worry about someone scrambling and can just focus on the WRs, its going to be a long night for anyone.
 
#108
#108
Manning has a better playoff QB rating than Brady and an even record (2-1 in championship) vs Brady. Brady does have the rings, which for some, trumps all. I do believe the Pats were simply a better team all around in the early 2000's.
 
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#109
#109
armchair said:
Manning just hasn't had much luck when it comes to big games--and it goes all the way back to our game against florida when he was here. But then the teams just weren't good enough. We weren't as good as those florida teams--and Manning carried those indy teams on his back (though I did think Indy chocked against pittsburgh in 2005, and they certainly could have beaten the saints but have to credit payton for that onside kicked that changed the game). Manning creates all these expectations because he's been so good for so long--but he's a snakebit when it comes to big games. I mean, when your center snaps the ball over your head for a safety on the first play of the game, it is a portent of trouble.
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the broncos would have had a tough time regardless.but it would have been better if peyton had his top 2 o-lineman playing in that game.everyone forgets that they were hurt and both went to the pro bowl last year.
 
#110
#110
Aerie Vol said:
Seriously? One, and only one coach has been busted this century for cheating - Belichick. They have very damning statistics to show that the Pats pulled it to such an extent that a measurable advantage was gained by them - hence the $500K max fine that he received.

AV
PS. "Bounty-gate" by Payton was unsavory behavior, but trying to hurt other players isn't "cheating", per se.
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Even Mangini (the guy who originally made the complaint) said it didn't really offer any kind of significant advantage. He just wanted to stop them from doing it to him.

And teams trying to steal each other's signals is far more commonplace than you think.
 
#111
#111
BadJerry20 said:
Since that guy was playing the "if" game. I wonder if Manning and Brady switched careers would the stats guys all of a sudden be Super Bowl guys? I would guess yes.
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If they switched teams over the course of their careers Manning would still have better "stats". He would also have more rings.
 
#112
#112
I pull for Peyton and hope good things come his way because of all he has given back to UT, period. I really do not care if he is "the best ever", I wish him well because he is an amazing ambassador for the University of TN.

Tom Brady, Montana, Bradshaw...who-the-f-ever can be the GOAT for all I care, they do nothing for UT.
 
#113
#113
BadJerry20 said:
Honestly Brady and Manning are the wrong kind of QB to beat Seattle with, it's just a bad match up. A scrambling QB is needed to keep Seattle's dbs looking in the backfield a little. If they don't have to worry about someone scrambling and can just focus on the WRs, its going to be a long night for anyone.
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The only scenario for Denver to win would be to get an early lead and make Wilson throw. The Colts were able to beat some good Ravens defenses this way. The best two rosters in the NFL are in the NFC West. Last night was Seattle's night. The game plan was perfect. Seattle is a bigger, stronger and faster team.
 
#114
#114
oldsmokey67 said:
peyton may not be better than brady.but he is way better than nameth,stabler,and starr.and other than starr he has equal super bowl wins with nameth and stabler.a bama fan judging peyton.you sir are way out of your element.
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I disagree. Players are players of their eras. The playbooks of the times, the coaches of the times, even the organizational politics of the time are all factors in success and failures. Example: Put Peyton in the heyday of Sammy Baugh. Sammy had to play QB, punter, and DB and he was darn good at all those positions. In that era, Peyton would be a non-trick pony. You didn't have a lot of fast WRs with massive leaping ability and so forth.

Peyton is a workaholic, he would have been a so so QB in Starr's era. Because it was common for players to be somewhat lax to the point of sneaking sips of whiskey before and during practice. They relied mainly on natural ability more than anything. Indeed, one Packer, Max McGee spent the night before the first Super Bowl getting smashing drunk, showed with a hangover. Played when Dowler got hurt. Peyton would have no tolerance for such behavior. But in that era he'd be considered an overbearing kid and made unwelcome on the team. He'd either be traded or end up having an "accident."

What I'm saying is any player is the product of his era. Presuming to take him out of it and put him in another is an exercise is sheer folly. The precision throws and very cerebral approach to the game we see now, didn't exist back then. And Peyton wouldn't be doing them either because the game hadn't evolved to that point at the time. Plus the general philosophy was to run, run, maybe pass this time but run some more. See that cloud of dust, sonny? That means it was a good run. But coach, we only got 3 yards! It was still a good run son, now do it again.
 
#117
#117
I don't know why this is continuing...literally all you got to look at is Indy when Peyton went down going 2-14, and Brady going down and entire season and the Pats not falling a bit and winning just as many games with Matt Cassel running the same offensive scheme. You people that keep saying you'd take Brady when the game is on the line....since Manning is the record holder for most 4th quarter comeback wins. Brady is 5th on that list.
 
#118
#118
thebjd said:
The Patriots hit gold with Brady. Very low salary cap number allowed them to build a defensive team. Very similar to Seattle and Wilson. This Seattle team will be good for a while.
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So then theoretically if N.E. had Manning they wouldn't have had the same cap space to build their d early. So less rings than Brady had.
 
#119
#119
topdog4tn said:
I don't know why this is continuing...literally all you got to look at is Indy when Peyton went down going 2-14, and Brady going down and entire season and the Pats not falling a bit and winning just as many games with Matt Cassel running the same offensive scheme. You people that keep saying you'd take Brady when the game is on the line....since Manning is the record holder for most 4th quarter comeback wins. Brady is 5th on that list.
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Cassell>>>Painter and Arlovsky

Comebacks are helped by being on a lesser team and having to come back, hence more opportunities. As I've stated in a previous thread some sort of comeback percentage would be more telling. IMO With a minimum amount of chances of course.

Edit: ftr I'm not a Brady guy I'd take Manning by a small margin, just offering some objectivity.
 
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#122
#122
topdog4tn said:
I don't know why this is continuing...literally all you got to look at is Indy when Peyton went down going 2-14, and Brady going down and entire season and the Pats not falling a bit and winning just as many games with Matt Cassel running the same offensive scheme. You people that keep saying you'd take Brady when the game is on the line....since Manning is the record holder for most 4th quarter comeback wins. Brady is 5th on that list.
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Yeah if you're a simpleton, that's all you look at. And it's not like that argument has been done to death as well.

And depends when the game is on the line. Regular season, yeah Manning. Playoffs? Different Manning.
 
#123
#123
thebjd said:
The only scenario for Denver to win would be to get an early lead and make Wilson throw. The Colts were able to beat some good Ravens defenses this way. The best two rosters in the NFL are in the NFC West. Last night was Seattle's night. The game plan was perfect. Seattle is a bigger, stronger and faster team.
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Agreed. The Super Bowl champ for the next couple is an NFC West team, once Kaep and Wilson get paid things will change for those 2 teams. People keep talking Seattle as a dynasty, they were a poor decision away from not making the Super Bowl. They have young talent, but that young talent will be getting paid very soon.
 
#124
#124
BadJerry20 said:
Cassell>>>Painter and Arlovsky

Comebacks are helped by being on a lesser team and having to come back, hence more opportunities. As I've stated in a previous thread some sort of comeback percentage would be more telling. IMO With a minimum amount of chances of course.

Edit: ftr I'm not a Brady guy I'd take Manning by a small margin, just offering some objectivity.
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Don't forget an already retired Kerry Collins as well.
 
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