Manziel Being Investigated

#376
#376
WoodsmanVol said:
People associated with rival teams or folks who're just downright evil for evil's sake, can easily entice a kid into an act of stupidity. It happened with TAMU's Johnny Football...
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You still think there's no chance that this is simply a case of guys who make a living selling autographs waving a bunch of money in a 20 year old's face? You still think it's a case of a rival's revenge or pure malice?
 
#377
#377
bamawriter said:
You still think there's no chance that this is simply a case of guys who make a living selling autographs waving a bunch of money in a 20 year old's face? You still think it's a case of a rival's revenge or pure malice?
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I do believe the other half of my post said, " or folks who're just downright evil for evil's sake. . . ."
This includes the category of people you mention. In either case, the folks who did this didn't have JF's best interests at heart.
 
#378
#378
WoodsmanVol said:
I do believe the other half of my post said, " or folks who're just downright evil for evil's sake. . . ."
This includes the category of people you mention. In either case, the folks who did this didn't have JF's best interests at heart.
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I agree with the bolded.

But I'm curious as to what makes these autograph brokers "downright evil for evil's sake." Is it inherently wrong to sell the autographs of college athletes? It's certainly not against the law, but is it a moral or ethical issue? Is it wrong for a college athlete to sell his signature? It's against the tenants of amateurism, but it's not illegal.

Are these brokers under some sort of obligation to have Manziel's best interests at heart? It's not like they held him at gunpoint and forced him to sign thousands of items. He was compensated, and quite well. "Evil" seems like a really strong word to me.
 
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#379
#379
bamawriter said:
I agree with the bolded.

But I'm curious as to what makes these autograph brokers "downright evil for evil's sake." Is it inherently wrong to sell the autographs of college athletes? It's certainly not against the law, but is it a moral or ethical issue? Is it wrong for a college athlete to sell his signature? It's against the tenants of amateurism, but it's not illegal.

Are these brokers under some sort of obligation to have Manziel's best interests at heart? It's not like they held him at gunpoint and forced him to sign thousands of items. He was compensated, and quite well. "Evil" seems like a really strong word to me.
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It's a matter of perspective. To me, evil for evil's sake means you intentionally cause or lead to harm without provocation. As to the cause, the answer is human nature. Man, we beat our God's son to a pulp, used huge nails to pin him to a piece of wood then hung him up as a billboard. Humans are nasty bunch. These brokers as you refer to them, knew they were putting Manziel at risk but their greed and/or spite allowed them to proceed to do just that. Then they leaked it, which is why I smell rival involvement. But right or wrong, what they did was evil for evil's sake as I define it.Contrary to popular opinion, money isn't evil, it's the love money that's the problem. That love shoves aside all semblance to honorable behavior.
 
#380
#380
WoodsmanVol said:
It's a matter of perspective. To me, evil for evil's sake means you intentionally cause or lead to harm without provocation.
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Since Manziel was just as aware of the potential harm he could suffer as the brokers were (and perhaps more aware, since he'd gone through the compliance education that every college athlete receives), and yet he proceeded to willingly take their money, wouldn't that also make him "evil"?
 
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#382
#382
WoodsmanVol said:
These brokers as you refer to them, knew they were putting Manziel at risk but their greed and/or spite allowed them to proceed to do just that.
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And he knew it too. This isn't a case of someone tricking a naive target into doing something wrong.

Then they leaked it, which is why I smell rival involvement.
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I don't know about this broker in particular, but I doubt most people in that trade for the money care about that kind of thing.
 
#383
#383
WoodsmanVol said:
Don't gloat. This could happen to one of our players. Players are young, stupid, and self-promoting. People associated with rival teams or folks who're just downright evil for evil's sake, can easily entice a kid into an act of stupidity. It happened with TAMU's Johnny Football, it could happen to a Vol sooner or later. Don't gloat. Indeed, very recently, we had 1-2 people on this board making mildly smirking comments about Florida's injury issues. BAM! The UT got body slammed with multiple injured players. What goes around, comes around so don't gloat. I feel sorry for the guy despite his being so stupid. I do wonder if his parents made effort to steer him away from unsavory influences. Maybe they did, just like Justin Beiber's mom tries to steer her son right. But the newly rich, hardheaded nitwit just won't listen. He's either going to end up in jail long term or get his azz killed. Or even sued out of his millions, maybe even all three.
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Just from reading some of your previous posts I wouldn't put you on having Bieber fever. :)
 
#384
#384
bamawriter said:
Since Manziel was just as aware of the potential harm he could suffer as the brokers were (and perhaps more aware, since he'd gone through the compliance education that every college athlete receives), and yet he proceeded to willingly take their money, wouldn't that also make him "evil"?
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I did say he was stupid didn't I? :hi:
 
#386
#386
bamawriter said:
Given that they he did the same thing as the brokers with the same motivation, why are you calling the brokers "evil" while excusing Manziel as "stupid"?
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Far as I know he didn't entice the brokers. Bigger question is why are you on the side of the brokers?
Are you glad the boy's in trouble? Do you condone what
has happened? Why have you posted so much on this topic? Is it a good thing this happened? Do you hope to see more such incidents? If so, incidents that involve TAMU players only or any and all SEC school related players. Or any and all NCAA football players?
 
#387
#387
WoodsmanVol said:
Far as I know he didn't entice the brokers.
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Actually, it appears that his buddy/handler/stooge Uncle Nate actually did market Manziel's services to some of these guys. At the very least, it was made clear that Johnny's services were available. But even if he simply fielded requests and didn't seek them out, he still sold his autograph for money, which is exactly what the autograph brokers were hoping to do. So why is he "stupid" while they are "evil"?

Bigger question is why are you on the side of the brokers?
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I'm not on anyone's side. I think these autograph brokers are, by and large, snakes and leeches. I was inquiring about what makes them "evil", and you don't seem to want to answer it. You seem to be under the impression that they lead a poor, gullible boy into temptation, when the reality is closer to the "boy" holding a flashing neon sign that says "OPEN FOR BUSINESS."

Are you glad the boy's in trouble?
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No. Nor am I sad.

Do you condone what has happened?
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Since none of the signings appear to have been done under coercion or duress, I have no issue with them.

Why have you posted so much on this topic?
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Because it interests me. I don't spend much time or energy discussion topics that I find uninteresting.

Is it a good thing this happened?
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I suppose it depends on whose perspective you're looking at it from. The NCAA might consider it a bad thing.

Do you hope to see more such incidents? If so, incidents that involve TAMU players only or any and all SEC school related players. Or any and all NCAA football players?
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No, I don't hope to see more such incidents. I'm more concerned about Alabama's players in particular, but I don't want to see this become a pervasive issue in the sport.

I just answered all of your questions. How about answering mine from above?
 
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#388
#388
I don't care about Manziel one way or the other. However, I think the incident has forced some people to see more clearly the hypocracy of the NCAA. Athletes cannot sell their autographs but the NCAA can sell pictures of the athletes for their own profit.

I hope that after this football season, the 5 power conference members develop their own set of rules and tell the NCAA that this is how things will be from now on.
 
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#389
#389
OldandStillaVol said:
I don't care about Manziel one way or the other. However, I think the incident has forced some people to see more clearly the hypocracy of the NCAA. Athletes cannot sell their autographs but the NCAA can sell pictures of the athletes for their own profit.

I hope that after this football season, the 5 power conference members develop their own set of rules and tell the NCAA that this is how things will be from now on.
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I totally agree.
 
#390
#390
bamawriter said:
I just answered all of your questions. How about answering mine from above?
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In a nutshell, humans are are untrustworthy. So long as there is power to be obtained or dollar to be made by hook or crook, too many people become corrupted (evil) to obtain either or both. Which makes them stupid as well because it all comes back at them.
 
#391
#391
WoodsmanVol said:
In a nutshell, humans are are untrustworthy. So long as there is power to be obtained or dollar to be made by hook or crook, too many people become corrupted (evil) to obtain either or both. Which makes them stupid as well because it all comes back at them.
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Okay.

Hypothetically, if Manziel were playing in the NFL and he did the same exact thing he's currently accused of, would you consider the autograph brokers "evil"?
 
#392
#392
bamawriter said:
Okay.

Hypothetically, if Manziel were playing in the NFL and he did the same exact thing he's currently accused of, would you consider the autograph brokers "evil"?
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We can't talk about this anymore. Here's why.
===============================
Originally Posted by OldandStillaVol View Post
I don't care about Manziel one way or the other. However, I think the incident has forced some people to see more clearly the hypocracy of the NCAA. Athletes cannot sell their autographs but the NCAA can sell pictures of the athletes for their own profit.

I hope that after this football season, the 5 power conference members develop their own set of rules and tell the NCAA that this is how things will be from now on.
====================================

Your response:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
bamawriter said:
I totally agree.
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Therefore, because you no longer care, we have no reason to continue the discourse. :hi:
 
#393
#393
WoodsmanVol said:
We can't talk about this anymore. Here's why.
===============================
Originally Posted by OldandStillaVol View Post
I don't care about Manziel one way or the other. However, I think the incident has forced some people to see more clearly the hypocracy of the NCAA. Athletes cannot sell their autographs but the NCAA can sell pictures of the athletes for their own profit.

I hope that after this football season, the 5 power conference members develop their own set of rules and tell the NCAA that this is how things will be from now on.
====================================

Your response:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Therefore, because you no longer care, we have no reason to continue the discourse. :hi:
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Wait... what?

If it took that post for you to realize that I don't care whether Manziel plays or doesn't, then you haven't been reading much of this thread.

Or are you upset because you think I don't care about Manziel personally? If that bothers you, then I'm sorry that I've talked bad about someone you have a deep, personal affection for.
 
#394
#394
bamawriter said:
Wait... what?

If it took that post for you to realize that I don't care whether Manziel plays or doesn't, then you haven't been reading much of this thread.

Or are you upset because you think I don't care about Manziel personally? If that bothers you, then I'm sorry that I've talked bad about someone you have a deep, personal affection for.
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Come on, man. If you don't care, why do are you continuing to spend so much time and energy in this thread? Because it interests you as you said before? That's an oxymoron. You don't care. You're interested. Oh boy!

Bamawriter, I say this with a degree of affection. I like you. You're fun and I just love playing with you. This isn't meant to be disrespectful. You really are a lot of fun. I know you're probably serious about the topic while I'm not and am just pretending to be. Actually, I do get some interesting thoughts from your posts at times. So your efforts aren't wholly wasted but by and large, I'm fooling around to see how far and how long you will go. That's why you saw all the smiley faces a while back in our exchanges. :hi:
 
#395
#395
WoodsmanVol said:
Come on, man. If you don't care, why do are you continuing to spend so much time and energy in this thread? Because it interests you as you said before? That's an oxymoron. You don't care. You're interested. Oh boy!
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I don't know why you're misunderstanding me, because I couldn't be much more clear. I don't care about Manziel. I care about this situation because it highlights two very significant problems that I have with the NCAA:

1. The arbitrary enforcement of the rules

2. The massive hypocrisy of profiting off of amateur athletes, many of whom come from very poor backgrounds, while using draconian rules to prevent the athletes themselves from doing the same

Those reasons, and those alone, are why I'm interested in this situation.
 
#397
#397
bamawriter said:
I don't know why you're misunderstanding me, because I couldn't be much more clear. I don't care about Manziel. I care about this situation because it highlights two very significant problems that I have with the NCAA:

1. The arbitrary enforcement of the rules

2. The massive hypocrisy of profiting off of amateur athletes, many of whom come from very poor backgrounds, while using draconian rules to prevent the athletes themselves from doing the same

Those reasons, and those alone, are why I'm interested in this situation.
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Agreed.

I lived in Indy a long time and knew a guy who worked for the NCAA. Nice guy, so I asked him one time what his job was. He said he was in charge of the NCAA Fund for assisting former athletes go back to finish their degrees. Great! Then, I found out that the entire amount that the NCAA gave back to athletes for this effort was less than the amount they paid this guy!!!
 
#398
#398
bamawriter said:
i don't know why you're misunderstanding me, because i couldn't be much more clear. I don't care about manziel. I care about this situation because it highlights two very significant problems that i have with the ncaa:

1. The arbitrary enforcement of the rules

2. The massive hypocrisy of profiting off of amateur athletes, many of whom come from very poor backgrounds, while using draconian rules to prevent the athletes themselves from doing the same

those reasons, and those alone, are why i'm interested in this situation.
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okay.
 
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