Manziel Being Investigated

#352
#352
BUBear said:
TexAgs.com - A&M Football

Slive must be so proud.
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The Bama players laughed. Indicative they considered the TAMU fan was joking. Now, had they asked what their cut would be for sales, that would have been very different. Further, it's clear the TAMU fan was out for a grudge match, being butt hurt about Johnny "Futbol."

I don't particularly care for Bama, but the TAMU fan's ploy is so obvious it would be funny if it wasn't so stupid. I hope he shows the video because if it is as he describes, it's very likely he can be possibly sued for:

Entrapment, Fraud, Slander, and something related to malicious intent.
 
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#353
#353
WoodsmanVol said:
The Bama players laughed. Indicative they considered the TAMU fan was joking. Now, had they asked what their cut would be for sales, that would have been very different. Further, it's clear the TAMU fan was out for a grudge match, being butt hurt about Johnny "Futbol."

I don't particularly care for Bama, but the TAMU fan's ploy is so obvious it would be funny if it wasn't so stupid. I hope he shows the video because if it is as he describes, it's very likely he can be possibly sued for:

Entrapment, Fraud, Slander, and something related to malicious intent.
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It's actually illegal in the State of Alabama to knowingly do anything that compromises the eligibility of an amateur athlete. So any video coupled with his message board post would be enough to bury him.

Fortunately for him, he's lying through his teeth and was never even at Bama's fan day.
 
#354
#354
bamawriter said:
It's actually illegal in the State of Alabama to knowingly do anything that compromises the eligibility of an amateur athlete. So any video coupled with his message board post would be enough to bury him.

Fortunately for him, he's lying through his teeth and was never even at Bama's fan day.
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I sort of thought he might be lying but was hoping he wasn't so he'd learn the hard way. His motivation is just downright vengeful.
 
#355
#355
A Florida-based autograph broker revealed today that Manziel participated in two additional signing sessions in the Sunshine State, which brings the total number of sessions to six, held in three different states (see Texas A&M Aggies QB Johnny Manziel signed at two more sessions - sources - ESPN). It is now estimated that Manziel signed some 4,400 objects and/or images.

I don't know what penalty it would carry, but there is another NCAA bylaw that Manziel could be charged with violating, even if they can't document receipt of money for these signatures. NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.2 requires "a student-athlete to make every effort to stop the sale of products featuring his or her likeness."
 
#356
#356
Volosaurus rex said:
A Florida-based autograph broker revealed today that Manziel participated in two additional signing sessions in the Sunshine State, which brings the total number of sessions to six, held in three different states (see Texas A&M Aggies QB Johnny Manziel signed at two more sessions - sources - ESPN). It is now estimated that Manziel signed some 4,400 objects and/or images.

I don't know what penalty it would carry, but there is another NCAA bylaw that Manziel could be charged with violating, even if they can't document receipt of money for these signatures. NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.2 requires "a student-athlete to make every effort to stop the sale of products featuring his or her likeness."
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Odd rule. Is the student to go to the local bookstore on campus and trash all his jerseys they are selling?
 
#357
#357
allvol123 said:
Odd rule. Is the student to go to the local bookstore on campus and trash all his jerseys they are selling?
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If it doesn't have his name on it, technically it's just an A&M jersey with #2 on it. Or at least that would be the school's argument i'm sure.
 
#358
#358
allvol123 said:
Odd rule. Is the student to go to the local bookstore on campus and trash all his jerseys they are selling?
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The institution can and often will act on behalf of the player by sending cease and desist letters. Examples would be the Stokes shirts, or the Manziel shirts that started the whole Manziel trademark thing. Another example would be a local company using an athlete in an Ad without permission. I don't think 12.5.2.2. Is relevant to this case, although it's hard to know without looking up cases and interpretations.
 
#359
#359
After this news I think he is done at A&M -- not sure why the idiot dealers would rat him out - if he doesnt play the stuff he signed for them wont sell -- real smart guys arent they
 
#360
#360
508mikey said:
After this news I think he is done at A&M -- not sure why the idiot dealers would rat him out - if he doesnt play the stuff he signed for them wont sell -- real smart guys arent they
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Common sense isn't common.
 
#361
#361
Volosaurus rex said:
A Florida-based autograph broker revealed today that Manziel participated in two additional signing sessions in the Sunshine State, which brings the total number of sessions to six, held in three different states (see Texas A&M Aggies QB Johnny Manziel signed at two more sessions - sources - ESPN). It is now estimated that Manziel signed some 4,400 objects and/or images.

I don't know what penalty it would carry, but there is another NCAA bylaw that Manziel could be charged with violating, even if they can't document receipt of money for these signatures. NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.2 requires "a student-athlete to make every effort to stop the sale of products featuring his or her likeness."
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Rule #1: Don't have autograph sessions with disreputable people.

Rule #2: If you do, don't get into sarcastic twitter wars with ESPN.
 
#362
#362
Orange_Crush said:
Rule #1: Don't have autograph sessions with disreputable people.

Rule #2: If you do, don't get into sarcastic twitter wars with ESPN.
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I think this rule should go between those two:

If you do, don't piss them off by causing a temporary halt to their operations by claiming a trademark on your name.
 
#363
#363
At some point, the IRS is going to get involved here. That's a lot of signatures which I'm sure were not free.
 
#364
#364
Orange Blazer said:
This isn't a criminal case.

Also,

No one has to talk to the NCAA if they don't want to. Nothing will come of this.
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This. Think about it for a minute. If the NCAA drops the hammer on Manziel, who will end up losing money in the long run?
 
#365
#365
bamawriter said:
It's actually illegal in the State of Alabama to knowingly do anything that compromises the eligibility of an amateur athlete. So any video coupled with his message board post would be enough to bury him.

Fortunately for him, he's lying through his teeth and was never even at Bama's fan day.
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Another useless AL law. If it was enforced the Prisons down there would be full of Bammer and Barn fans.
 
#367
#367
bamawriter said:
We might find out how it's enforced pretty soon. One of Manziel's signings happened in Birmingham.
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What is your opinion of the end result here? I can't make heads or tails of this. Is he guilty? Hell yes. But will the NCAA do anything and risk losing the money? Not sure.

If they can't prove money was exchanged is it dead in the water?

How similar is this to our legal system? Does the NCAA have the authority?
 
#369
#369
hog88 said:
You really think they would bring charges against someone in the state of AL for hurting A&M?
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Actually no. I was justing messing with you because you like to knee-jerk all the time.

I'm pretty sure the law only applies to amateur athletes at institutions in the state. While the signing might have taken place in AL, Manziel isn't covered by the law.
 
#370
#370
Obsessed said:
What is your opinion of the end result here? I can't make heads or tails of this. Is he guilty? Hell yes. But will the NCAA do anything and risk losing the money? Not sure.
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The NCAA is totally arbitrary in its enforcement. If the NCAA doesn't want to sit Manziel, they won't. It really won't matter what the evidence shows (or common sense, for that matter).

And the NCAA has a lot of negatives working against it right now: The O'Bannon lawsuit, the botched Miami investigation, the Cam Newton "Rule", the Penn State mess. Add on to all that the fact that the 5 major conferences are sick of playing by the same rules as everyone else, and it's not illogical to think that the NCAA might be a little gun-shy.

If they can't prove money was exchanged is it dead in the water?
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This has never mattered in the past. The NCAA is extremely limited in their powers of discovery. They can't subpoena records from anyone, nor compel testimony from anyone who isn't under their umbrella, i.e. the autograph brokers or Uncle Nate.

What the NCAA could do is make Manziel answer questions and request bank records. If they don't believe his answers, or he doesn't turn over the records, they could view that an an admission of guilt.

How similar is this to our legal system? Does the NCAA have the authority?
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The NCAA has the authority, but their enforcement process is nothing like the legal system. The standard of proof for the NCAA is much, much lower than what would be required in a court of law, even in a civil case.

As for my opinion, it really hasn't changed: Manziel did exactly what he's been accused of doing, and under the bylaws of the NCAA he should be declared ineligible. But he's not going to miss a single snap this season.
 
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#371
#371
bamawriter said:
The NCAA is totally arbitrary in its enforcement. If the NCAA doesn't want to sit Manziel, they won't. It really won't matter what the evidence shows (or common sense, for that matter).

And the NCAA has a lot of negatives working against it right now: The O'Bannon lawsuit, the botched Miami investigation, the Cam Newton "Rule", the Penn State mess. Add on to all that the fact that the 5 major conferences are sick of playing by the same rules as everyone else, and it's not illogical to think that the NCAA might be a little gun-shy.



This has never mattered in the past. The NCAA is extremely limited in their powers of discovery. They can't subpoena records from anyone, nor compel testimony from anyone who isn't under their umbrella, i.e. the autograph brokers or Uncle Nate.

What the NCAA could do is make Manziel answer questions and request bank records. If they don't believe his answers, or he doesn't turn over the records, they could view that an an admission of guilt.



The NCAA has the authority, but their enforcement process is nothing like the legal system. The standard of proof for the NCAA is much, much lower than what would be required in a court of law, even in a civil case.

As for my opinion, it really hasn't changed: Manziel did exactly what he's been accused of doing, and under the bylaws of the NCAA he should be declared ineligible. But he's not going to miss a single snap this season.
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Thank you for your response.


So it's simply up to the NCAA how his far they want to push it. They go all in on his ass and he is out. But your opinion is they won't and he will play.


That BS IMO If it was any other player they would ride that player to the ground.
 
#372
#372
Obsessed said:
That BS IMO If it was any other player they would ride that player to the ground.
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I don't disagree. But any other player probably wouldn't have had so many offers to get paid for his signature. Any other player wouldn't be the reigning Heisman Trophy winner and the most recognizable guy in the sport. All the factors that made his signature so valuable are the same factors that give him immunity from the NCAA.
 
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#373
#373
bamawriter said:
I don't disagree. But any other player probably wouldn't have had so many offers to get paid for his signature. Any other player wouldn't be the reigning Heisman Trophy winner and the most recognizable guy in the sport. All the factors that made his signature so valuable are the same factors that give him immunity from the NCAA.
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You could be right but something tells me that the NCAA is much more likely to take down an individual player than a member institution. I think he's going to be ruled ineligible but not sure when.
 
#374
#374
:pepper:Oh Johnny Boy lived it up, now its time to pay, he will never see the field again in college plus his draft stock has hit bottom, no telling how many million have been flushed down the drain, GO Johnny GO its to late to stop now get everything you can get out of it now, because thats all you will be getting, oh Johnny Boy will still live a heck of a life instead of 20 to 30 million he will have to settle for a couple, get after it and dont stop now johnny boy.
 
#375
#375
terrypedigo said:
:pepper:Oh Johnny Boy lived it up, now its time to pay, he will never see the field again in college plus his draft stock has hit bottom, no telling how many million have been flushed down the drain, GO Johnny GO its to late to stop now get everything you can get out of it now, because thats all you will be getting, oh Johnny Boy will still live a heck of a life instead of 20 to 30 million he will have to settle for a couple, get after it and dont stop now johnny boy.
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Don't gloat. This could happen to one of our players. Players are young, stupid, and self-promoting. People associated with rival teams or folks who're just downright evil for evil's sake, can easily entice a kid into an act of stupidity. It happened with TAMU's Johnny Football, it could happen to a Vol sooner or later. Don't gloat. Indeed, very recently, we had 1-2 people on this board making mildly smirking comments about Florida's injury issues. BAM! The UT got body slammed with multiple injured players. What goes around, comes around so don't gloat. I feel sorry for the guy despite his being so stupid. I do wonder if his parents made effort to steer him away from unsavory influences. Maybe they did, just like Justin Beiber's mom tries to steer her son right. But the newly rich, hardheaded nitwit just won't listen. He's either going to end up in jail long term or get his azz killed. Or even sued out of his millions, maybe even all three.
 
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