Martin, Golden, and Motivation

#126
#126
GoobieVol said:
Your solution sounds like the problem for these 18 and 19 year olds. These guys have had coaches, teaches, and students coddling them. A lot of college players have mind issues.

IMO the reason Golden got benched wasnt because of a mental issue. It was a effort on Defense issue.
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Coaching is about creating confidence. If you think thats coddling then so be it. That's what my solution would have created for golden sooner than the past few weeks IMO.
 
#127
#127
Trae Golden Stats by Game
Kennesaw State: 8 pts, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 26 mins
UNC-Asheville: 14 pts, 5 assists, 2 turnovers, 34 mins
Oklahoma State: 11 pts, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 30 mins
UMASS: 11 pts, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 29 mins
Oakland: 18 pts, 7 assists, 1 turnover, 31 mins
Georgetown: 8 pts, 4 assists, 3 turnovers, 36 mins
Virginia: 11 pts, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 24 mins
Wichita State: 25 points, 5 assists, 4 turnovers, 34 mins
First 8 games: 13.3 pts, 4.6 assists, 2 turnovers, 30.5 mins
Presbyterian: 16 points, 8 assists, 0 turnovers, 31 mins
Western Carolina: 10 points, 4 assists, 1 turnover, 33 mins
Xavier: 5 points, 1 assist, 4 turnovers, 21 mins
Memphis: 4 points, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 23 mins
Ole Miss: 7 points, 5 assists, 1 turnover, 23 mins
Alabama: 8 points, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 24 mins
Kentucky: 7 points, 6 assists, 5 turnovers, 29 mins
Miss. State: 10 points, 9 assists, 2 turnovers, 26 mins
Next 8 games: 8.4 pts, 4.4 assists, 2 turnovers, 26.3 mins
Ole Miss: 11 points, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 25 mins
Alabama: 3 points, 1 assist, 0 turnovers, 21 mins
Vanderbilt: 3 points, 1 assist, 0 turnovers, 11 mins
Arkansas: DID NOT PLAY
Georgia: DID NOT PLAY
South Carolina: 16 points, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 27 mins
Vanderbilt: 12 points, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, 39 mins
Kentucky: 24 points, 8 assists, 0 turnovers, 29 mins
Last 8 games: 11.5 pts (8.6 pts), 2.5 assists (1.9 assists), 1.2 turnovers (0.9 turnovers), 25.3 mins (19 mins)
*Note* Parentheses are the averages including the 2 games he missed. Without the parentheses are the averages of just the 6 he played.

So, which 2/3 of the season was Martin killing Golden? I mean, that looks pretty consistent, minus the PPG, but even that wasn't a huge drop off. So, tell me how benching Golden was the wrong thing?
 
#128
#128
whobethis16 said:
So, which 2/3 of the season was Martin killing Golden?
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I never said Martin was killing golden. Only that goldens underachieving led to us having a 11-10 record the first 2/3 of the season. That's unacceptable and its martins job to get golden to play up to his potential
 
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#129
#129
BruinVol said:
I never said Marin was killing golden. Only that goldens underachieving led to us having a 11-10 record the first 2/3 of the season. That's unacceptable and its martins job to get golden to play up to his potential
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Through the first 24 games, Golden's numbers: 11.1 pts, 3.8 assists, 1.7 turnovers, 27.4 mins

Through the first 16 (i.e., the first 2/3 of the season): 10.9 pts, 4.5 assists, 2 turnovers, 28.4 mins

Numbers based on just adding the two averages together, so the rounding may be a bit off, but not much. That's pretty damn solid. Hate to break it to you.
 
#130
#130
whobethis16 said:
Through the first 24 games, Golden's numbers: 11.1 pts, 3.8 assists, 1.7 turnovers, 27.4 mins

Through the first 16 (i.e., the first 2/3 of the season): 10.9 pts, 4.5 assists, 2 turnovers, 28.4 mins

Numbers based on just adding the two averages together, so the rounding may be a bit off, but not much. That's pretty damn solid. Hate to break it to you.
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So you have been pleased with Goldens play for the duration of the season?
 
#131
#131
BruinVol said:
IMO golden is a fragile minded player. From my seat golden needs to be told that he is martins PG until he has no eligibility left. He needs to be given that kind of vote of confidence from martin. IMO the kind of player with mind issues needs to feel like his coach has complete trust in his skills. IMO he would have much shorter slumps if he knows his head coach supports him as the PG in this program as long as he is here.


There's my solution.
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To that point, I agree. But the problem comes when he isn't producing as he should on a regular basis. Then, you have to make a change. The old saying of doing the same thing over again, expecting a different result. Look at Golden's lines during the 4 game losing streak starting with Memphis. That is why a change was made.
 
#132
#132
BruinVol said:
I never said Martin was killing golden. Only that goldens underachieving led to us having a 11-10 record the first 2/3 of the season. That's unacceptable and its martins job to get golden to play up to his potential
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Come on guy..... Kenny Hall and Jarnell Stokes want some of the credit for our 11-10 start dont they???
 
#133
#133
VolGee4 said:
To that point, I agree. But the problem comes when he isn't producing as he should on a regular basis. Then, you have to make a change. The old saying of doing the same thing over again, expecting a different result. Look at Golden's lines during the 4 game losing streak starting with Memphis. That is why a change was made.
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Good post. My stance is that during that 4 games streak martin should have given golden a vote of confidence and perhaps his slump would have ended there. Admittedly the injury issue may have been more of a factor that I am giving it.
 
#135
#135
BruinVol said:
So you have been pleased with Goldens play for the duration of the season?
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From CBS Sports, he's 3rd on the team in scoring, 5th in the conference in assists, tied for 10th with LSUs Hickey in assists/to ratio, 3rd in conference in assists/game, and has 39 turnovers on the year vs. Richardson's 49, Stokes' 51, and McRae's 60, tying him at 43rd in the conference. So, yeah, I'm satisfied with that.
 
#136
#136
BruinVol said:
Sure they all do but none as much as golden IMO. Golden is the straw that stirs the drink
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Which is true for all teams with a quality point guard. See if we had a back-up point guard with a shred of ability to play point guard on the SEC level, we win at least 3 of those 10 games we lost.

No PG=Turnovers= loses+benching our only point guard=BruinVol questioning our coaches methods after the biggest win of the season. Wow what a crappy equation
 
#137
#137
whobethis16 said:
From CBS Sports, he's 3rd on the team in scoring, 5th in the conference in assists, tied for 10th with LSUs Hickey in assists/to ratio, 3rd in conference in assists/game, and has 39 turnovers on the year vs. Richardson's 49, Stokes' 51, and McRae's 60, tying him at 43rd in the conference. So, yeah, I'm satisfied with that.
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Interesting opinion. I think most of the posters in this thread that are firmly disagreeing with my opinion would disagree with you here. Golden has had far from an satisfactory year IMO.
 
#138
#138
BruinVol said:
Interesting opinion. I think most of the posters in this thread that are firmly disagreeing with my opinion would disagree with you here. Golden has had far from an satisfactory year IMO.
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Satisfactory, yes. A bit disappointing based on where he stood last year, yes. But that's like saying Lofton had an unsatisfactory senior year.
 
#139
#139
I've always thought of golden like a football player playing basketball and being pretty good at it.
 
#140
#140
BruinVol said:
Good post. My stance is that during that 4 games streak martin should have given golden a vote of confidence and perhaps his slump would have ended there. Admittedly the injury issue may have been more of a factor that I am giving it.
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You've obviously not heard Martin talk about golden....he's said multiple times he's our PG til he graduates.

How do you know behind closed doors Martin wasn't pumping sunshine to golden, giving pats on the a$$ and pumping more confidence into him than thought possible? Because if he was, and golden was still performing poorly, are you suggesting Martin should've left him as the starter and not made a change?
 
#141
#141
bleedingTNorange said:
You've obviously not heard Martin talk about golden....he's said multiple times he's our PG til he graduates.

How do you know behind closed doors Martin wasn't pumping sunshine to golden, giving pats on the a$$ and pumping more confidence into him than thought possible? Because if he was, and golden was still performing poorly, are you suggesting Martin should've left him as the starter and not made a change?
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Yes I am suggesting that golden should have been our starter at pg every game he was physically able to play if his productivity was the only issue. If the effort was there then He earned the right to play/start thru tough stretches last year with his play last year.

Yes I have no idea what was said behind closed doors. Just giving my opinion based on results we have seen. It certainly could be way off base.
 
#142
#142
BruinVol said:
Yes I am suggesting that golden should have been our starter at pg every game he was physically able to play if his productivity was the only issue. If the effort was there then He earned the right to play/start thru tough stretches last year with his play last year.

Yes I have no idea what was said behind closed doors. Just giving my opinion based on results we have seen. It certainly could be way off base.
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Uhm if you think the effort was there in those games this year leading up to his benching then there's no point in discussing this any further.
 
#146
#146
BruinVol said:
So golden wasnt playing hard??
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Golden was benched for playing without intensity and effort and for not playing well. CM played ball. He knows. At every point in a players career, they need to sit. Basketball is a psychological game. He knows that. Whether it was his shoulder, knee, attitude, hated the motion offense or what, trae wasn't playing hard or well and needed to sit. Now he is the opposite and looks fresh. Sitting for a little while can be a big lift for some players, if they handle it right.
 
#147
#147
Spartacavolus said:
Golden was benched for playing without intensity and effort and for not playing well. CM played ball. He knows. At every point in a players career, they need to sit. Basketball is a psychological game. He knows that. Whether it was his shoulder, knee, attitude, hated the motion offense or what, trae wasn't playing hard or well and needed to sit. Now he is the opposite and looks fresh. Sitting for a little while can be a big lift for some players, if they handle it right.
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If golden was benched for not playing hard then my entire opinion changes. In thought you felt golden was worn down and that's why his play suffered?
 
#148
#148
BruinVol said:
If golden was benched for not playing hard then my entire opinion changes. In thought you felt golden was worn down and that's why his play suffered?
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I don't know the answer. Either way, effort and focused lapsed. Maybe he was tired, but you can't pack it in and he was worthless for a stretch. Ultimately, its on trae to perform or communicate to the coach what is preventing him from playing. Whether its the offense or being tired. It shouldn't get to the point of a benching, but its hoops and often does. Many games are on and I always hear commentary about big-time players being benched or not starting or whatever. The reason is because most of these kids don't know how to communicate with their coaches and address an issue before it becomes a bigger problem.
 
#149
#149
Spartacavolus said:
I don't know the answer. Either way, effort and focused lapsed. Maybe he was tired, but you can't pack it in and he was worthless for a stretch. Ultimately, its on trae to perform or communicate to the coach what is preventing him from playing. Whether its the offense or being tired. It shouldn't get to the point of a benching, but its hoops and often does. Many games are on and I always hear commentary about big-time players being benched or not starting or whatever. The reason is because most of these kids don't know how to communicate with their coaches and address an issue before it becomes a bigger problem.
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All fair points
 
#150
#150
bleedingTNorange said:
You've obviously not heard Martin talk about golden....he's said multiple times he's our PG til he graduates.

How do you know behind closed doors Martin wasn't pumping sunshine to golden, giving pats on the a$$ and pumping more confidence into him than thought possible? Because if he was, and golden was still performing poorly, are you suggesting Martin should've left him as the starter and not made a change?
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Recent Martin comments have me wondering if Martin has stopped trying to adjust Golden to his offense and told him to play his game and adjusted his offense to fit.
Golden looked like the guy of old last 2 games and it's not all just about being healthy.
 
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