Mashack and Dubar tonight

#76
#76
I wondered the same but isn't his injury on his non-shooting hand in which case more reps should be called for to get used to shooting with them taped imo.

Edit: Also, it seems she would have called out the injury (she has tweeted about it in the past) as being a factor in the coaches thought process.
It is on his off hand I'd guess the staff feels like he's limited with two good hands...maybe not a wise use of reps to get him looks and designed plays for outside shots if he's limited at all, but who knows.
 
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#77
#77
It is on his off hand I'd guess the staff feels like he's limited with two good hands...maybe not a wise use of reps to get him looks and designed plays for outside shots if he's limited at all, but who knows.
100% agree he shouldn't get more looks in the game esp from designed plays but Meika was referring to practice reps (sorry if I was not clear). And I'm not sure what would stop Jahmai from getting reps on his own time - just a very curious comment from Meika which I believe.
 
#78
#78
My bad. I miseread. Game mins and ppg are right next to each other in stat sheet I was looking at.
Still think it is realistic. Shack can do 6 points a game and Dubar's average is down because he has had games where he didn't get very many minutes. That kills your average in respect to ppg. He just needs the minutes to get to 9-10 points. With our lack of depth, no way he ends up averaging 4.5 ppg by seasons end. 15 is still the goal. Very achieveable IMO.
Dubar has played at least 7 minutes in every game he's played in. He's only failed to hit 10 minutes in 4 games. He's averaging 11.5 mpg. He's getting time, so no, his average is not really affected by games where he's not playing very many minutes. His average is affected by the fact that he is scoring option #6, at best.

As I said, they've only collectively had 15+ twice in 11 chances, so expecting it to become routine seems more hopeful than realistic, though not impossible. I certainly hope it happens with regularity as it would be great for our team.
 
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#79
#79
Dubar has played at least 7 minutes in every game he's played in. He's only failed to hit 10 minutes in 4 games. He's averaging 11.5 mpg. He's getting time, so no, his average is not really affected by games where he's not playing very many minutes. His average is affected by the fact that he is scoring option #6, at best.

As I said, they've only collectively had 15+ twice in 11 chances, so expecting it to become routine seems more hopeful than realistic, though not impossible. I certainly hope it happens with regularity as it would be great for our team.
Bro, he got 17.26 minutes last night and got 12 points. Funny how when his minutes went up his point total did as well, uh?
It's hard to get going when you just play 25% of the game or so. His minutes will be going up and so will his ppg. Watch and see.
If you really think he's only good for 4-5 points a game then we are in big trouble this year going forward.
 
#80
#80
Bro, he got 17.26 minutes last night and got 12 points. Funny how when his minutes went up his point total did as well, uh?
It's hard to get going when you just play 25% of the game or so. His minutes will be going up and so will his ppg. Watch and see.
If you really think he's only good for 4-5 points a game then we are in big trouble this year going forward.
You're saying you expect him to average 9-10 ppg going forward. I think that is optimistic. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be a dynamic shift in his role.

It just feels like you are trying to extrapolate his best game in terms of minutes and points and arrive at the idea that it becomes what he does every night if he just gets 17 minutes. That just seems like a pie-in-the-sky scenario and an oversimplification. I could just as easily point out that he got 8 minutes vs Ark and and 10 minutes vs Fla and combined for 0 points on 0/6 shooting. 18 minutes across 2 games is plenty of time to make some amount of impact. It seems like you're act like getting 8-10 minutes of meaningful time is akin to getting the final 45 seconds of a game for the walk-ons.
 
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#81
#81
You're saying you expect him to average 9-10 ppg going forward. I think that is optimistic. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be a dynamic shift in his role.
It just feels like you are trying to extrapolate his best game in terms of minutes and points and arrive at the idea that it becomes what he does every night if he just gets 17 minutes. That just seems like a pie-in-the-sky scenario and an oversimplification. I could just as easily point out that he got 8 minutes vs Ark and and 10 minutes vs Fla and combined for 0 points on 0/6 shooting. 18 minutes across 2 games is plenty of time to make some amount of impact. It seems like you're act like getting 8-10 minutes of meaningful time is akin to getting the final 45 seconds of a game for the walk-ons.

Pretty much. I look for his minutes to go up and as a result his ppg. I think the problem with him all year is Barnes hasn't gotten him more involved offensively. If he makes the effort, and Dubar is putting in the effort, I believe 9-10 points a game will be the result.

He averaged almost 18 points a game last year at Hofstra on 34 minutes. You half both of those and guess what?
You get 17 minutes and 9 points.
That's exactly what I believe he can average here.

Yes, he shat the bed against Flordia, but the whole damn team did so there's that.
His Arkansas performance is in part why I made this thread. To call him out because I know he is better than that. He responded against Texas.

I'll ask you again, do you honestly think he is only good for 4-5 points a game?
If so, we're in trouble this year. Where are the other bench points going to come from?
 
#82
#82
I can see Dubar averaging 9 ppg from the Texas game on. But, he has to have 15 minutes a game, to do that. He becomes more of an option with Chaz is off, also. But the way he attacked that offensive rebound and about brought the basket down with that dunk, showed me something. Vols have had a sh!t load of dunks, this year. But, imo, that was the best one and the most powerful one. Dubar has the skills, the body, the shot and athletic ability to average double figures in the remaining games. The question is whether he gets the minutes or not, imo. My bad, high and rambling, today
 
#83
#83
Pretty much. I look for his minutes to go up and as a result his ppg. I think the problem with him all year is Barnes hasn't gotten him more involved offensively. If he makes the effort, and Dubar is putting in the effort, I believe 9-10 points a game will be the result.

He averaged almost 18 points a game last year at Hofstra on 34 minutes. You half both of those and guess what?
You get 17 minutes and 9 points.
That's exactly what I believe he can average here.

Yes, he shat the bed against Flordia, but the whole damn team did so there's that.
His Arkansas performance is in part why I made this thread. To call him out because I know he is better than that.

I'll ask you again, do you honestly think he is only good for 4-5 points a game?
If so, we're in trouble this year. Where are the other bench points going to come from?
My original issue was less about Dubar being an 8-9 ppg player, and more about your hope in him and Mashack being a combined 15 ppg combo, let alone 20 ppg. I provided reasons why, but will also add that they would seemingly cannibalize each other in terms of offensive opportunities. Neither is taking looks from Lanier, ZZ, Milicic, Gainey, or Okpara. Maybe not even Phillips just because of where he plays and where his looks come from.

As for bench points, as I said, Gainey needs to be more efficient. Phillips provides 4-5 ppg. Even if Dubar only gives you just 5 ppg and Gainey can be a 10 ppg guy on better efficiency, that's 20 bench points/gm.

And not for nothing, but you can't just say that Dubar averaged 18 ppg in 34 minutes at Hofstra and that cutting that in half would equate to a possible result for him at Tennessee. That's way too oversimplified and doesn't take into account level of competition or role on the team.
 
#84
#84
Looks like opponents may be using the man who's guarding Mashack to double Z or Chaz and dare him to take the 3. Texas did it a few times. I think Jahmai may have surprised them a bit by just driving the ball to the hole. He is a pretty good finisher at the rim and he's a pretty good FT shooter 70+% so I like that better than jacking 3's. Plus someone's going to come help on him so there's the chance for a dish to one of the bigs for a dunk. Hope he keeps driving the ball in those situations.
 
#85
#85
Looks like opponents may be using the man who's guarding Mashack to double Z or Chaz and dare him to take the 3. Texas did it a few times. I think Jahmai may have surprised them a bit by just driving the ball to the hole. He is a pretty good finisher at the rim and he's a pretty good FT shooter 70+% so I like that better than jacking 3's. Plus someone's going to come help on him so there's the chance for a dish to one of the bigs for a dunk. Hope he keeps driving the ball in those situations.
That's when Mashack has to find a cutting lane to the basket as he did last night a couple of times. That's the offset Barnes and Co will continue to scheme for in those cycles
 
#86
#86
My original issue was less about Dubar being an 8-9 ppg player, and more about your hope in him and Mashack being a combined 15 ppg combo, let alone 20 ppg. I provided reasons why, but will also add that they would seemingly cannibalize each other in terms of offensive opportunities. Neither is taking looks from Lanier, ZZ, Milicic, Gainey, or Okpara. Maybe not even Phillips just because of where he plays and where his looks come from.

As for bench points, as I said, Gainey needs to be more efficient. Phillips provides 4-5 ppg. Even if Dubar only gives you just 5 ppg and Gainey can be a 10 ppg guy on better efficiency, that's 20 bench points/gm.

And not for nothing, but you can't just say that Dubar averaged 18 ppg in 34 minutes at Hofstra and that cutting that in half would equate to a possible result for him at Tennessee. That's way too oversimplified and doesn't take into account level of competition or role on the team.
Mashack plays pretty much the whole game, and is already getting almost 6. If you don't necessarily have an issue with seeing Dubar potentially getting 9 points a game, then I don't know why you'd have a problem with them getting 15 together.
Dubar wouldn't necessarily be cutting Mashacks minutes. Or shot attempts, ftm.

Expecting gainy to essentially be on every single night to account for virtually all our guard bench points is what is unrealistic if you ask me.
Gainey is really a semi-starter, dude. He's already picking up a ton of slack. We need someone else to step up, and I believe Dubar is poised to be that man.

I never said I expected the duo to get 20 every night. I said IF they did (get us "almost 20"), we'd be in nice shape.
I specifically said, I expected 15 out of them on an average. (I agree 20 points average in regards is probably not doable)
You said I was being unrealistic expecting that number, and I don't believe so for the reasons I mentioned. I truly believe their current average together of @ 10 is too low/underperforming.

Get this, no matter how many minutes Dubar is getting, Mashack better still be averaging pretty close to 6 as a starting shooting guard. If not, we're not going to be very good this year in terms of beating good teams.

So what it comes down to as far as the original point of contention is do you ( meaning anyone) believe it's unrealistic to expect 9-10 points from Dubar? I don't think that's very unrealistic at all. Especially as his minutes goes up, which they will because of our depth.

Do you not think his minutes go up?
Do you not think he is capable of more points with more minutes? Is 4-5 the limit for this guy in your opinion?

As far as my Hofstra example, it's just an example of what he is capable of it. Can he do it in the SEC? I believe so, and I guess you don't. I guess we'll see who's right as the SEC season moves on.

( all apologies to the thread for the long post, this conversation topic has grown some)
 
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#87
#87
Mashack plays pretty much the whole game, and is already getting almost 6. If you don't necessarily have an issue with seeing Dubar potentially getting 9 points a game, then I don't know why you'd have a problem with them getting 15 together.
Dubar wouldn't necessarily be cutting Mashacks minutes. Or shot attempts, ftm.

Expecting gainy to essentially be on every single night to account for virtually all our guard bench points is what is unrealistic if you ask me.
Gainey is really a semi-starter, dude. He's already picking up a ton of slack. We need someone else to step up, and I believe Dubar is poised to be that man.

I never said I expected the duo to get 20 every night. I said IF they did (get us "almost 20"), we'd be in nice shape.
I specifically said, I expected 15 out of them on an average. (I agree 20 points average in regards is probably not doable)
You said I was being unrealistic expecting that number, and I don't believe so for the reasons I mentioned. I truly believe their current average together of @ 10 is too low/underperforming.

Get this, no matter how many minutes Dubar is getting, Mashack better still be averaging pretty close to 6 as a starting shooting guard. If not, we're not going to be very good this year in terms of beating good teams.

So what it comes down to as far as the original point of contention is do you ( meaning anyone) believe it's unrealistic to expect 9-10 points from Dubar? I don't think that's very unrealistic at all. Especially as his minutes goes up, which they will because of our depth.

Do you not think his minutes go up?
Do you not think he is capable of more points with more minutes? Is 4-5 the limit for this guy in your opinion?

As far as my Hofstra example, it's just an example of what he is capable of it. Can he do it in the SEC? I believe so, and I guess you don't. I guess we'll see who's right as the SEC season moves on.

( all apologies to the thread for the long post, this conversation topic has grown some)
Mashack's production and minutes have been trending down over the last 3 weeks, so no, he doesn't "basically play the whole game". In the last 5 games (since C. Carr's departure), he's averaging 22.6 mpg, only attempted 16 shots, and he's only made 6 of them. He's averaging 3.4 ppg over that stretch. Dubar is averaging 5 ppg in that same stretch. Yet, you somehow believe they suddenly flip a switch and start doubling that production. Why?

And Dubar is getting minutes. He's averaging 12 mpg in SEC play, yet he has 2 goose eggs and 1 really good performance. You're blindly assuming that last night's performance suddenly becomes the norm? Maybe it does. But you also keep saying his minutes are going to continue to go up because of our lack of depth. Again...why? We've played with the same lineup for the past 5 games since Carr bolted. He's averaged 10.2 mpg in that span. What is changing that suddenly is going to radically increase his minutes? His season average is 11.5 mpg. Whose minutes he is going to start taking?

I've used statistical data and trends to support why I think your claim is based solely on optimism while you've merely restated the belief a few different ways and backed it with more hope and "your belief". I just don't get it. You're expecting them to double what they've recently given though nothing statistically supports that trend.
 
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#88
#88
Mashack's production and minutes have been trending down over the last 3 weeks, so no, he doesn't "basically play the whole game". In the last 5 games (since C. Carr's departure), he's averaging 22.6 mpg, only attempted 16 shots, and he's only made 6 of them. He's averaging 3.4 ppg over that stretch. Dubar is averaging 5 ppg in that same stretch. Yet, you somehow believe they suddenly flip a switch and start doubling that production. Why?

And Dubar is getting minutes. He's averaging 12 mpg in SEC play, yet he has 2 goose eggs and 1 really good performance. You're blindly assuming that last night's performance suddenly becomes the norm? Maybe it does. But you also keep saying his minutes are going to continue to go up because of our lack of depth. Again...why? We've played with the same lineup for the past 5 games since Carr bolted. He's averaged 10.2 mpg in that span. What is changing that suddenly is going to radically increase his minutes? His season average is 11.5 mpg. Whose minutes he is going to start taking?

I've used statistical data and trends to support why I think your claim is based solely on optimism while you've merely restated the belief a few different ways and backed it with more hope and "your belief". I just don't get it. You're expecting them to double what they've recently given though nothing statistically supports that trend.
You know what I meant.
Nobody plays the whole 40 minutes, even Zeigler.
ZZ is top with 34 mins, Chaz next with 30, and then Mashack with 28 mins- 3rd most on the team.
I'm not sure why you're being so obtuse in respect. Could it be you're bent out of shape I made an "unworthy" thread ? lol

Anyways, Mashack has averaged 5.4 per game. Is it really 'unrealistic' to expect 6 out of him? (straight answer please)
I mean seriously, dude? smh

Again, the only real question is it unrealistic to expect 9 points out of Dubar?

Since you haven't answered, I will now ask you for the 4th time, do you think Dubar is only capable of 4-5 points a game???
If so, how many is he capable of in your opinion?? ( answer both please)


As far as giving him some additional minutes, it wouldn't be hard to get Dubar a few extra minutes. He's a small forward. You just play a different line up and it gives everyone more rest. He gets 4-5 minutes spread out amongst 2-4.
It might be different on different nights.

Having said that, he may not even need the additional minutes ( although I believe he gets them because guys are going to need more rest going forward). Maybe leave him in a bit longer stretches rather than pulling him in and out. Maybe he just gets more efficient like you believe Gainey and Igor need to.

I don't know what irrefutable proof you are expecting? The proof will have to bear itself out. He did it last night. Yes, it's one game, but at this point if you don't at least to attempt to get him more involved offensively we are going to be in trouble this year. Mark my words. Mark my words, bro.
We will not win many games on the road in the SEC when he Dubar only scores 4-5, and I would bet on that.

Yes, naturally all this is my opinion, but don't pretend I haven't supported it with anything, ok?
I cited his average at Hofstra, and scoring more points when he did get more minutes.
(one game or not, it worked)

Alot of this has subjectivity.
I mean do you have any hard data that proves "Milicic starts finishing around the rim a little better" ?
"Continues to improve his 3-pt shooting %" ?
Any proof that suggeats Gainey is suddenly going to get "more efficient shooting the ball"?
 
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#89
#89
Mashack's production and minutes have been trending down over the last 3 weeks, so no, he doesn't "basically play the whole game". In the last 5 games (since C. Carr's departure), he's averaging 22.6 mpg, only attempted 16 shots, and he's only made 6 of them. He's averaging 3.4 ppg over that stretch. Dubar is averaging 5 ppg in that same stretch. Yet, you somehow believe they suddenly flip a switch and start doubling that production. Why?

And Dubar is getting minutes. He's averaging 12 mpg in SEC play, yet he has 2 goose eggs and 1 really good performance. You're blindly assuming that last night's performance suddenly becomes the norm? Maybe it does. But you also keep saying his minutes are going to continue to go up because of our lack of depth. Again...why? We've played with the same lineup for the past 5 games since Carr bolted. He's averaged 10.2 mpg in that span. What is changing that suddenly is going to radically increase his minutes? His season average is 11.5 mpg. Whose minutes he is going to start taking?

I've used statistical data and trends to support why I think your claim is based solely on optimism while you've merely restated the belief a few different ways and backed it with more hope and "your belief". I just don't get it. You're expecting them to double what they've recently given though nothing statistically supports that trend.
If he will be aggressive on his cuts to the basket, he can contribute 6-10 points/game. The coaches will be scheming that option in the motion and on double teams. His man up defense continues to be stellar
 
#90
#90
If he will be aggressive on his cuts to the basket, he can contribute 6-10 points/game. The coaches will be scheming that option in the motion and on double teams. His man up defense continues to be stellar
I just rewatched he Texas game highlights.
When he scored our 8th point ( around the 15min mark) and back to back in 2nd half on our 35th and 37th points (18-17 min mark,) that is exactly what he is capable of.

He's fast enough to get to the basket in those situations and more than capable of hitting them.
Shouldn't be any reason he can't give us 6+ points a game.
 
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#91
#91
You know what I meant.
Nobody plays the whole 40 minutes, even Zeigler.
ZZ is top with 34 mins, Chaz next with 30, and then Mashack with 28 mins- 3rd most on the team.
I'm not sure why you're being so obtuse in respect. Could it be you're bent out of shape I made an "unworthy" thread ? lol

Anyways, Mashack has averaged 5.4 per game. Is it really 'unrealistic' to expect 6 out of him? (straight answer please)
I mean seriously, dude? smh

Again, the only real question is it unrealistic to expect 9 points out of Dubar?

Since you haven't answered, I will now ask you for the 4th time, do you think Dubar is only capable of 4-5 points a game???
If so, how many is he capable of in your opinion?? ( answer both please)

As far as giving him some additional minutes, it wouldn't be hard to get Dubar a few extra minutes. He's a small forward. You just play a different line up and it gives everyone more rest. He gets 4-5 minutes spread out amongst 2-4.
It might be different on different nights.

Having said that, he may not even need the additional minutes ( although I believe he gets them because guys are going to need more rest going forward). Maybe leave him in a bit longer stretches rather than pulling him in and out. Maybe he just gets more efficient like you believe Gainey and Igor need to.

I don't know what irrefutable proof you are expecting? The proof will have to bear itself out. He did it last night. Yes, it's one game, but at this point if you don't at least to attempt to get him more involved offensively we are going to be in trouble this year. Mark my words. Mark my words, bro.
We will not win many games on the road in the SEC when he Dubar only scores 4-5, and I would bet on that.

Yes, naturally all this is my opinion, but don't pretend I haven't supported it with anything, ok?
I cited his average at Hofstra, and scoring more points when he did get more minutes.
(one game or not, it worked)

Alot of this has subjectivity.
I mean do you have any hard data that proves "Milicic starts finishing around the rim a little better" ?
"Continues to improve his 3-pt shooting %" ?
Any proof that suggeats Gainey is suddenly going to get "more efficient shooting the ball"?
My god, dude...how petty are you?

I tried having a worthwhile discussion about this, but if this is the kind of garbage you're going to resort to, consider me finished with it. Get over yourself.
 
#92
#92
If he will be aggressive on his cuts to the basket, he can contribute 6-10 points/game. The coaches will be scheming that option in the motion and on double teams. His man up defense continues to be stellar
He's absolutely capable of it, but for whatever reason, he's not doing it. Defense is absolutely stellar...it's the only thing keeping him on the floor, honestly.
 
#93
#93
My god, dude...how petty are you?

I tried having a worthwhile discussion about this, but if this is the kind of garbage you're going to resort to, consider me finished with it. Get over yourself.
Please, I've been cordial with you, and can keep it cordial. It was a joke, thus the "lol". I don't need to be gaslit.

But considering how I asked several times with no answer, I figured you might try to avoid answering this:

"I will now ask you for the 4th time, do you think Dubar is only capable of 4-5 points a game???
If not, how many is he capable of in your opinion?? (answer both please)"


5th chance if you want to take a stab at it.....
 
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#94
#94
Mashack's production and minutes have been trending down over the last 3 weeks, so no, he doesn't "basically play the whole game". In the last 5 games (since C. Carr's departure), he's averaging 22.6 mpg, only attempted 16 shots, and he's only made 6 of them. He's averaging 3.4 ppg over that stretch. Dubar is averaging 5 ppg in that same stretch. Yet, you somehow believe they suddenly flip a switch and start doubling that production. Why?

And Dubar is getting minutes. He's averaging 12 mpg in SEC play, yet he has 2 goose eggs and 1 really good performance. You're blindly assuming that last night's performance suddenly becomes the norm? Maybe it does. But you also keep saying his minutes are going to continue to go up because of our lack of depth. Again...why? We've played with the same lineup for the past 5 games since Carr bolted. He's averaged 10.2 mpg in that span. What is changing that suddenly is going to radically increase his minutes? His season average is 11.5 mpg. Whose minutes he is going to start taking?

I've used statistical data and trends to support why I think your claim is based solely on optimism while you've merely restated the belief a few different ways and backed it with more hope and "your belief". I just don't get it. You're expecting them to double what they've recently given though nothing statistically supports that trend.
This is starting to sound like the guy arguing that Aidoo is more athletic than Felix.

How bout you guys agree to disagree and move on?

Go VOLS!
 
#97
#97
Right...I'm talking in general across the last month, or so, the Texas game notwithstanding.
One thing I’ve noticed with Mashack (as with Igor) but he rarely seems to dunk it despite being probably top 2-3 in terms of athletic ability on our team. While Chaz hasn’t succeeded yet, I appreciate it when he goes in strong trying to poster someone.
 
#98
#98
One thing I’ve noticed with Mashack (as with Igor) but he rarely seems to dunk it despite being probably top 2-3 in terms of athletic ability on our team. While Chaz hasn’t succeeded yet, I appreciate it when he goes in strong trying to poster someone.
Yeah, I can't wait until he gets one to go down. When he does, it's going to be the Vols' dunk of the year and #1 on SC Top 10 that night
 
#99
#99
Who would have thought our spark on offense tonight would come from a Mashack 2 followed by a Mashack 3 ?
He ended up being perfect from the floor!
4-4 from 2 , 1-1 from 3, and played stellar on D like always. Games he can give us this we will win almost every time.

Dubar didn't get much of a chance to get going, tho. Hope they get him more involved against Vandy. I still believe he's got a lot of potential if we can figure out a way to utilize it.
 
Certainly not try to place blame solely on him (Lord knows tonight's loss was a team effort), but Mashack had only 2 points tonight ( 1-4 tonight and had the air-ball from 3) on 24 mins.
When you have a shooting guard that starts and only has 2 points, in a conference game, you're going to lose on the road almost every time.

Dubar only had 3 pts and a couple rebounds, but once again he really didn't get any minutes to get going.

We desperately need some bench points. Gainey was essentially our bench again tonight with 5 points. Like it or not, if Dubar can't or isn't allowed to contribute we are in for a lot more losses. Especially on the road.
 

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