Mass shootings in Maine

#128
#128
hog88 said:
Folks with felonies, violent criminals and those with mental health disorders cannot own them now.

You want mental disabilities included in BGCs, great. Let's change the HIPPA laws so that they are reportable NICS (or in TN TICS). Currently it's illegal for a mental health provider to report someone.
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Slippery slope there.
 
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#130
#130
Jackcrevol said:
Came on here to opine on the continuing insanity. Figured I might find this, annnd it was the first thing: Thanks Hog.

A 10 year old little girl, who was bowling. Shot in the leg by this monster said, 'Why do people do this?'

When are we going to realize there is a problem. When are we going to galvanize, instead of fracturing? The right cant even agree on color of ****. Neither side can.

Point is, we dont want to take guns away. Heck, I own guns. We want to talk about it. Guns are a part of this country, the bridge is crossed.

There are responsible owners.

Here's what I want to talk about. AR15's, and assault rifles. Yes, I said it. We will never m, unfortunately eradicate all MAE's. But, its a start.

- Background checks have to include mental disabilities.

- There has to be a broadened database

- It has to be bipartisan, and not include an outright ban, to be clear. This is a limitation.

- Folks with felonies, violent criminals, and those with mental health disorders who pose a significant threat to public. Simply cannot own them.

It has to be very specific. And, while we're only targeting a relatively small amount of these events. Every life that can be saved, is worth it.

What else can we do? Status quo isnt working.
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I'm going to add something I feel it's very important to this discussion regarding felonies and violent criminals.

While I don't disagree they should be prohibited from owning firearms or at the very least severely restricted...... There has to be a path back..... In other words you mess up once, or even a number of times....... If you've grown up or out of those habits etc......... given time and demonstrated growth along with other life circumstances changing those rights should, at some point be restored to you.
 
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#131
#131
hog88 said:
Yes it is. But the gun control crowd refuses to acknowledge it when they break out the mental health checks being included in BGCs.
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My problem is what constitutes a reason to deny 2nd amendment rights? A guy that just lost his significant other in a breakup needs someone to talk to? As with everything it can be abused and will be.
 
#132
#132
kiddiedoc said:
We should make a law that people in treatment for mental illness can't purchase or carry firearms. That would prevent tragedies like this.
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What about the 2nd amendment?

Would it prevent these tragedies or create more of them? There are unintended consequences. I'm not going to therapy because I want firearms.
 
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#133
#133
InVOLuntary said:
My problem is what constitutes a reason to deny 2nd amendment rights? A guy that just lost his significant other in a breakup needs someone to talk to? As with everything it can be abused and will be.
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Yep, its a complicated issue but easy to use excuse for the grabbers.
 
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#134
#134
theFallGuy said:
Military with mental issues is what is sounds like
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And this whole incident should rest clearly on the military. Army Reserve. Registered firearm instructor.

Sent to loony house for 2 weeks back in summer by military for treatment. DID NOT remove weapons from his possession nor access to weapons for said mental health treatment. Goes wacko and kills many innocent people.

It's easy to say these inicidents can be avoided, shen alot of times it's not so easy. But, this time it's a severe oversight of a controllable situation that led to tragedy. Military protocol should have had all his accesses suspended and his firearms cleared out while he was in therapy.
 
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#136
#136
hog88 said:
Yep, its a complicated issue but easy to use excuse for the grabbers.
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Exception here is that he was still active reserves. Military could have shut him down till further notice. They're the ones that sent him up for two weeks from what I saw this morning.
 
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#137
#137
KB5252 said:
I'm going to add something I feel it's very important to this discussion regarding felonies and violent criminals.

While I don't disagree they should be prohibited from owning firearms or at the very least severely restricted...... There has to be a path back..... In other words you mess up once, or even a number of times....... If you've grown up or out of those habits etc......... given time and demonstrated growth along with other life circumstances changing those rights should, at some point be restored to you.
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100%. This is called, listening to other people with divergent opinions (presumably).

Again, understanding that 100% of MCE wont be prevented. Action is necessary to mitigate as many as possible.

The righties in this state want to hand CWP to any individual who can click a mouse. That is a recipe for disaster. Any firearms owner worth their salt, respects the gun, and, agrees that proper training is necessary. Further, its the people who lack knowledge and training who scare me the most.
 
#138
#138
hog88 said:
Folks with felonies, violent criminals and those with mental health disorders cannot own them now.

You want mental disabilities included in BGCs, great. Let's change the HIPPA laws so that they are reportable NICS (or in TN TICS). Currently it's illegal for a mental health provider to report someone.
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I'm in. At this point if it violates someone's whatever, or offends whoever, dont care. Something has to change. But, a broad, sweeping (far left) change isnt the answer.

Really, baby steps.
 
#139
#139
Jackcrevol said:
100%. This is called, listening to other people with divergent opinions (presumably).

Again, understanding that 100% of MCE wont be prevented. Action is necessary to mitigate as many as possible.

The righties in this state want to hand CWP to any individual who can click a mouse. That is a recipe for disaster. Any firearms owner worth their salt, respects the gun, and, agrees that proper training is necessary. Further, its the people who lack knowledge and training who scare me the most.
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Can you link to any mass shooting committed by a permit holder?
 
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#140
#140
Jackcrevol said:
I'm in. At this point if it violates someone's whatever, or offends whoever, dont care. Something has to change. But, a broad, sweeping (far left) change isnt the answer.

Really, baby steps.
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Violating rights doesn't bother you? What other rights are you fine with violating for the "greater good"? Should we start having current event tests or mental illness evaluations to register to vote?
 
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#142
#142
We should have very strict laws banning anyone with mental-health issues from owning or buying a gun. People receiving mental-health treatment should be put on a register preventing them from gun purchases--and any guns that they have should be confiscated. It would apply to anyone who has spent time in a mental-health facility or is on serious mental-health medication--meaning drugs beyond just the standard anti-depressants/anxiety drugs that millions of Americans take. America's gun culture is insane, insanely stupid, and insanely embarrassing. It's funny that America has long been considered an "advanced nation." We're a backward nation, mostly, because we have a lot of rubes and politicians representing rubes.

The advanced part of America is the top 20 percent. Then there's another 15-20 percent of sensible middle-class people with an education. And then the other 60 percent are uneducated idiots, many of whom like to play with guns.

Wasn't this guy just another "responsible gun owner" until yesterday? Ha, ha, ha.
 
#143
#143
turbovol said:
We should have very strict laws banning anyone with mental-health issues from owning or buying a gun. People receiving mental-health treatment should be put on a register preventing them from gun purchases--and any guns that they have should be confiscated. It would apply to anyone who has spent time in a mental-health facility or is on serious mental-health medication--meaning drugs beyond just the standard anti-depressants/anxiety drugs that millions of Americans take. America's gun culture is insane, insanely stupid, and insanely embarrassing. It's funny that America has long been considered an "advanced nation." We're a backward nation, mostly, because we have a lot of rubes and politicians representing rubes.

The advanced part of America is the top 20 percent. Then there's another 15-20 percent of sensible middle-class people with an education. And then the other 60 percent are uneducated idiots, many of whom like to play with guns.

Wasn't this guy just another "responsible gun owner" until yesterday? Ha, ha, ha.
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Yeah but the vast majority of mass shooters (minus gang shootings that are conveniently ignored) are on the "standard anti-depressants/anxiety drugs millions of Americans take".
 
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#144
#144
The most important issue with mental health in this country is that we have swung so far towards the "patient autonomy" side that there is almost nothing that can be done to secure a person unless they are an active and immediate threat to themselves or others, and that threat is voiced to a health care provider. We don't have the legal ability or resources to force inpatient care, medication, or home inspection (which could include removal of weapons, if indicated).

Quite simply: a person cannot be helped, treated, or secured unless they seek help on their own accord.
 
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#145
#145
turbovol said:
The advanced part of America is the top 20 percent. Then there's another 15-20 percent of sensible middle-class people with an education. And then the other 60 percent are uneducated idiots, many of whom like to play with guns.
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Out of curiosity, which group would you place yourself in?
 
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#146
#146
Jackcrevol said:
100%. This is called, listening to other people with divergent opinions (presumably).

Again, understanding that 100% of MCE wont be prevented. Action is necessary to mitigate as many as possible.

The righties in this state want to hand CWP to any individual who can click a mouse. That is a recipe for disaster. Any firearms owner worth their salt, respects the gun, and, agrees that proper training is necessary. Further, its the people who lack knowledge and training who scare me the most.
Click to expand...
This guy was military and firearms instructor. Would more training have made this guy less deadly? Are we going to disarm the military now? Sometime one needs to focus on the real problem. That's part of the problems we have now is the liberal gun grabbers focus is on something other than the real problem. More laws against law abiding citizens does nothing to stop this. In my opinion it's made it worse. Guns have been demonized by the liberal left so much, it's made it cool to have one. Also, the demonization of guns has diminished the number of people that have firearms and made the populace as a whole less "trained". When I was growing up about everyone had a basic understanding of firearms and a healthy respect for them. I frequently had one in my car as a teenager at high school, had one in my dorm room at college. Never an issue. Many of my friends that drove pickups had gun racks and had log guns in their trucks at school too.


It's not a gun problem, it's a people problem. The sooner you and your "blame the gun" crowd come to terms with that, we can start fixing the problem.

And, as a side note, the Israeli's had their guns in a government library check-out program. I wonder if their citizens wish they had something to defend themselves with on 10/07?
 
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#147
#147
turbovol said:
We should have very strict laws banning anyone with mental-health issues from owning or buying a gun. People receiving mental-health treatment should be put on a register preventing them from gun purchases--and any guns that they have should be confiscated. It would apply to anyone who has spent time in a mental-health facility or is on serious mental-health medication--meaning drugs beyond just the standard anti-depressants/anxiety drugs that millions of Americans take. America's gun culture is insane, insanely stupid, and insanely embarrassing. It's funny that America has long been considered an "advanced nation." We're a backward nation, mostly, because we have a lot of rubes and politicians representing rubes.

The advanced part of America is the top 20 percent. Then there's another 15-20 percent of sensible middle-class people with an education. And then the other 60 percent are uneducated idiots, many of whom like to play with guns.

Wasn't this guy just another "responsible gun owner" until yesterday? Ha, ha, ha.
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So your issue is with people that aren't "educated"?

Sounds like something an intellectual midget would say........ Sounds exactly like what someone pretending to be the smartest guy in the room would say, I'm not buying it.
 
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#148
#148
turbovol said:
Wasn't this guy just another "responsible gun owner" until yesterday? Ha, ha, ha.
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Ignoring everything else you posit (which far more often than not the right call) you know in the transitive that applies to everything, right? Every rapist for instance wasn't a rapist until they were. It's an absurd argument to make reserved for the dumbest of hoplophobes.
 
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#149
#149
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