Matt Campbell (Iowa State)

[BeecherVol]

How do you know that Tom Herman would win 9-10 games a year at Tennessee? He’s been at Texas for four years and has won at least nine games one time. So a coach who struggles to win 8 games a year in the B12, at arguably the best job in the country, is going to somehow start winning 9-10 games a year in the SEC?

You dont. He's losing 4.5 games a year at Texas with better resources and an easier schedule than he would have here.

The math aint there.

 

[Birdie]

Wow that’s the spirit, let’s hire a guy because he loses “close” to his arch rival and loses “close” games to programs that Texas should be consistently beating. Again you’re the one who made the statement that he would win 9-10 games a year at Tennessee. What evidence do you have to back that up? Why would a guy who has only won at least nine games once at Texas, in a vastly inferior conference, somehow start to win 9-10 games a year at Tennessee.

He won 10 and played for a conference title in year 2. So that eliminates your argument there. Go ahead and get somebody that MAY be competitive with uga and uf or they MAY get trounced by 35pts like Pruitt. It is what we will do anyways. I personally would rather have a coach that I am confident would be competitive with them because he has proven he can field a team that goes toe to toe with teams like Oklahoma. He is a great offensive mind, he has experience and success as a HC. Would he win an SEC title? I don't know. Would he field a team that could go toe to toe with UGA and UF vs getting trounced by 35pts? There are no guarantees but based on his track record of success I am more confident he would do it then somebody who has never even competed on the P5 level as a HC before.

You act like being competitive with Oklahoma but losing by a TD or less makes him a complete failure of a coach.. That's insane. They are a great team and program. We have not had anyone that could do that here in over a decade. We lose to Vandy and UK now but are too good for a HC that is not only competitive with teams like Oklahoma annually but also beats them?

Of the names you mentioned only Matt Campbell and Gus have competed in a major conference and had as much or more success than Herman. So answer your own question. What have Fickell or these 5-6 other guys done? Have they beat Oklahoma and played for a P5 conference title in year 2 of taking over a dumpster fire program that won 16 games total the 3 previous years? Oh, btw, Pruitt has won 15 games on a shortened schedule so the situation Herman took over was as bad if not not worse than what we have here right now. Imagine a coach that 2yrs from today is playing in the SEC title game. Seems like chances are higher that we could do that with a coach who has actually done it vs somebody who hasn't.

But you do you. You'll get what you want. We will hire an up and comer who hasn't "failed" at Texas and he will get his doors blown off by 3-4 TD's by everyone while he "learns" how to be a HC.

 

[Mccage]

I made a post of my Big Board of Coaches and Matt Campbell is #1. I know that people can disagree with one another on here but Matt Campbell absolutely would be the #1 slam dunk hire that could be made. Yeah, maybe he'll go to Michigan or Penn State but he's the best guy that's a younger coach that you can get.

I don't know why people can't comprehend what he's done at Iowa State and how impressive that is. Look at his Iowa State stats the past few years:

2017 (8-5) Strength of Schedule 42

L 44-41 Iowa (8-5)
W 41-14 @Akron (7-7)
L 17-7 Texas (7-6)
W 38-31 @ Oklahoma (12-2)
W 45-0 Kansas (1-11)
W 31-13 @ Texas Tech (6-7)
W 14-7 TCU (11-3)
L 20-16 @ WVU (7-6)
L 49-42 Ok St (10-3)
W 23-13 @ Baylor (1-11)
L 20-19 @ Kansas St (8-5)
W 21-20 vs Memphis (10-3) Liberty Bowl

Opponents record 88-69

They didn't lose to anyone they should have beaten on paper. They beat two top 5 teams in the country at the time in Oklahoma and TCU. They beat Memphis in the bowl. They almost beat Oklahoma State. You can argue their worst loss was to a 7-6 West Virginia team.

2018 (8-5) Strength of Schedule 35

L 13-3 @ Iowa (9-4)
L 37-27 vs Oklahoma (12-2)
W 26-13 vs Akron (4-8)
L 17-14 @ TCU (7-6)
W 48-42 @ Oklahoma St (7-6)
W 30-14 vs WVU (8-4)
W 40-31 vs Texas Tech (5-7)
W 27-3 @ Kansas (3-9)
W 28-14 vs Baylor (7-6)
L 24-10 @ Texas (10-4)
W 42-38 vs KSU (5-7)
L 28-26 vs Washington State (11-2) Alamo Bowl

Opponents record 88-65

Their worst loss was at TCU who finished 7-6. They again beat everyone they should have. Largest margin of defeat was a 14 point loss at Texas.

2019 (7-6) SOS 21

L 18-17 vs Iowa (10-3)
W 72-20 vs UL Monroe (5-7)
L 23-21 @ Baylor (11-3)
W 49-24 vs TCU (5-7)
W 38-14 @ WVU (5-7)
W 34-24 @ Texas Tech (4-8)
L 34-27 vs Oklahoma St (8-5)
L 42-41 @ Oklahoma (12-2)
W 23-21 vs Texas (8-5)
W 41-31 vs Kansas (3-9)
L 27-17 @ KSU (8-5)
L 33-9 vs Notre Dame (11-2) Camping World Bowl

Opponents record 90-63

His biggest loss occurs here to Notre Dame by 24 points in the bowl. Worst loss that year was to an 8-5 Kansas State team. Lost to Oklahoma by one point. Beat everyone they should have beaten. Lost to Iowa by 1 point.

2020 5-2 SOS 38

L 31-14 vs Louisiana (7-1)
W 37-34 @ TCU (3-4)
W 37-30 vs Oklahoma (6-2)
W 31-15 vs Texas Tech (3-5)
L 24-21 @ Oklahoma St (5-2)
W 52-22 @ Kansas (0-7)
W 38-31 vs Baylor (1-5)
W 23-20 @ Texas (5-3)

They are about to win the Big 12 and play in the title game. Yeah they lost to Louisiana and that's definitely the worst loss he's had at ISU but they are 7-1 so it isn't as bad as it looked at the beginning of the year. Only other loss this year at Oklahoma State by 3 points. Again has beaten Oklahoma. Beats everyone he should.

So please tell me how Matt Campbell wouldn't be at the top of the wish list? Iowa State has the longest streak of not winning a conference championship in the history of the Power 5 conferences in NCAA football. In history - he's about to do something that hasn't been done at Iowa State. If you are on the side of the fence that thinks Campbell isn't a good hire I just don't know what to tell you. I don't think you know much about football if that's the case. The guy is like a younger version of Urban Meyer without Urban's baggage. Why wouldn't you want someone like that? I mean we may not get the guy but he's the one I'd go for first and do whatever I could to get him.

Just so happens Billy Napier is coaching Louisiana.

 

[Birdie]

You dont. He's losing 4.5 games a year at Texas with better resources and an easier schedule than he would have here.

The math aint there.

He beat Oklahoma and played for a conference title. He has been competitive in every game they've played. Who is better? An Urban Meyer aint walking through that door. Get a coach who can consistently get the program to 8-9 games. If they can't elevate it from there then wait until someone comes along that can. It is better to hire a coach we know can field competitive teams vs someone that can be another Pruitt.

Don't just look at the record. Look at the scores of the games. He is going toe to toe with teams like LSU and Oklahoma as a HC after taking over a team that was 16-21 the 3yrs prior. Have we been close to even that? NO. I want to field a competitive team. Do that consistently and the wins will come. If we were 10-3, 8-5, 6-3 the past 3yrs with a division title, conference championship game appearance, playing our rivals within 7pts every game, and had two top 5 recruiting classes how would we feel today about the state of our program?

 

[Boston Vol]

He won 10 and played for a conference title in year 2. So that eliminates your argument there. Go ahead and get somebody that MAY be competitive with uga and uf or they MAY get trounced by 35pts like Pruitt. It is what we will do anyways. I personally would rather have a coach that I am confident would be competitive with them because he has proven he can field a team that goes toe to toe with teams like Oklahoma. He is a great offensive mind, he has experience and success as a HC. Would he win an SEC title? I don't know. Would he field a team that could go toe to toe with UGA and UF vs getting trounced by 35pts? There are no guarantees but based on his track record of success I am more confident he would do it then somebody who has never even competed on the P5 level as a HC before.

You act like being competitive with Oklahoma but losing by a TD or less makes him a complete failure of a coach.. That's insane. They are a great team and program. We have not had anyone that could do that here in over a decade. We lose to Vandy and UK now but are too good for a HC that is not only competitive with teams like Oklahoma annually but also beats them?

Of the names you mentioned only Matt Campbell and Gus have competed in a major conference and had as much or more success than Herman. So answer your own question. What have Fickell or these 5-6 other guys done? Have they beat Oklahoma and played for a P5 conference title in year 2 of taking over a dumpster fire program that won 16 games total the 3 previous years? Oh, btw, Pruitt has won 15 games on a shortened schedule so the situation Herman took over was as bad if not not worse than what we have here right now. Imagine a coach that 2yrs from today is playing in the SEC title game. Seems like chances are higher that we could do that with a coach who has actually done it vs somebody who hasn't.

But you do you. You'll get what you want. We will hire an up and comer who hasn't "failed" at Texas and he will get his doors blown off by 3-4 TD's by everyone while he "learns" how to be a HC.

And you’ll get what you want with Herman. We’ll lose to UGA and UF and then consistently lose games to teams that we shouldn’t. That’s what Tom Herman has done his entire time at Texas. I’m sure fans would be just fine losing home games to the South Carolina’s and Kentucky’s of the world in Herman’s fourth season. But hey we’d be able to hold our heads up high because we played UGA and UF “close.”

 

[Birdie]

And you’ll get what you want with Herman. We’ll lose to UGA and UF and then consistently lose games to teams that we shouldn’t. That’s what Tom Herman has done his entire time at Texas. I’m sure fans would be just fine losing home games to the South Carolina’s and Kentucky’s of the world in Herman’s fourth season. But hey we’d be able to hold our heads up high because we played UGA and UF “close.”

He beat Oklahoma, won a division title, conference championship game appareance, 2 top 5 classes, and competitive with everyone they play.

But you go ahead and hire the guy who will lose to Vandy, Kentucky, mizzou, and get trounced by 28pts when playing UF and UGA. You're right, what was I thinking, this sounds so much better!!

 

[Boston Vol]

He beat Oklahoma, won a division title, conference championship game appareance, 2 top 5 classes, and competitive with everyone they play.

But you go ahead and hire the guy who will lose to Vandy, Kentucky, mizzou, and get trounced by 28pts when playing UF and UGA. You're right, what was I thinking, this sounds so much better!!

The B12 doesn’t have divisions so how did he win a division title???? And yes you go ahead and hire the guy that will get us back to 7-8 wins a year. I’ll bet you’ll enjoy those “close” losses to our rivals and dropping games to inferior competition every season.

 

[BeecherVol]

He beat Oklahoma and played for a conference title. He has been competitive in every game they've played. Who is better? An Urban Meyer aint walking through that door. Get a coach who can consistently get the program to 8-9 games. If they can't elevate it from there then wait until someone comes along that can. It is better to hire a coach we know can field competitive teams vs someone that can be another Pruitt.

Don't just look at the record. Look at the scores of the games. He is going toe to toe with teams like LSU and Oklahoma as a HC after taking over a team that was 16-21 the 3yrs prior. Have we been close to even that? NO. I want to field a competitive team. Do that consistently and the wins will come. If we were 10-3, 8-5, 6-3 the past 3yrs with a division title, conference championship game appearance, playing our rivals within 7pts every game, and had two top 5 recruiting classes how would we feel today about the state of our program?

You re making the comparison that the Big 12 and the SEC are the same. They re not.

You re also making the comparison that recruiting in the south with Bama, UGA, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Clemson..... is the same is recruiting Texas at Texas. It's not.

You re assuming that he's a guarantee to win the same amount of games at UT as he has at Texas. There's nothing in the facts that support that.

 

[BeecherVol]

He beat Oklahoma, won a division title, conference championship game appareance, 2 top 5 classes, and competitive with everyone they play.

But you go ahead and hire the guy who will lose to Vandy, Kentucky, mizzou, and get trounced by 28pts when playing UF and UGA. You're right, what was I thinking, this sounds so much better!!

Who is "the guy"?

 

[Birdie]

The B12 doesn’t have divisions so how did he win a division title???? And yes you go ahead and hire the guy that will get us back to 7-8 wins a year. I’ll bet you’ll enjoy those “close” losses to our rivals and dropping games to inferior competition every season.

Haha. Yea, he lost NC LSU by 7pts, what a freaking loser. Gets top 5 classes, just doesn't have it. Scores 41pts a game, doesn't know how to coach. Let's go get one of your guy so we can get guaranteed loses to Kentucky and Vandy. You'll get what you want, 4-6 wins a year so we can get the next great coach. Enjoy those 3-4 TD blow outs each season! Genius.

 

[Birdie]

You re making the comparison that the Big 12 and the SEC are the same. They re not.

You re also making the comparison that recruiting in the south with Bama, UGA, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Clemson..... is the same is recruiting Texas at Texas. It's not.

You re assuming that he's a guarantee to win the same amount of games at UT as he has at Texas. There's nothing in the facts that support that.

There is nothing in the facts that Fickell or Napier or insrt name here can recruit and win in the sec either. I'll take Freeze. He has done all of the above. Is he coming? If not, who is he next option that has a better track record as a HC? Everyone is going to be a gamble. Isn't it prudent to eliminate as many risks as possible? At least Herman has had success at multiple spots as a HC. He turned around a 16-21 Texas program. He has managed a big-tims program. He has signed top 5 classes.

Lol. Nothing is a guarantee with anyone boys. TN can't afford another hire that falls flat on their face with no semblance of success. So you have to go find the coach with the right mix of risk vs reward. Herman has lowest risk vs highest reward of any potential candidate unless you can get Campbell with a fat check or overlook the stuff with Freeze.

 

[Boston Vol]

Haha. Yea, he lost NC LSU by 7pts, what a freaking loser. Gets top 5 classes, just doesn't have it. Scores 41pts a game, doesn't know how to coach. Let's go get one of your guy so we can get guaranteed loses to Kentucky and Vandy. You'll get what you want, 4-6 wins a year so we can get the next great coach. Enjoy those 3-4 TD blow outs each season! Genius.

You think Matt Campbell, Gus Malzahn, or Bill O’Brien are only winning 4-6 games a year here? Why not try and hire someone who you think has championship potential? But hey I guess that you’re the kind of guy who settles for “just good enough” in life. Enjoy those Music City bowls every year!

 

[LTVol]

Campbell isn’t an up and comer. He is established.

Took his yeam to P5 conference championship game and NY 6 Bowl this year. Its been 13 years since we accomplished either of those, let alone both, so Id take Campbell without hesitation. Would also be happy with Allen or Freeze. Not sure about PJ.

 

[Birdie]

You think Matt Campbell, Gus Malzahn, or Bill O’Brien are only winning 4-6 games a year here? Why not try and hire someone who you think has championship potential? But hey I guess that you’re the kind of guy who settles for “just good enough” in life. Enjoy those Music City bowls every year!

I'd take Campbell over Herman. All day. Said it the first time. You're just too focused in your own opinions to be open minded and didn't pay attention.

Gus doesn't change his offense, the game has passed him by. Literally, he does not go to coaching clinics and has refused to update his offense. The SEC has figured him out. Hard pass. Guaranteed 6 losses a year.

O'Brien is intriguing. Rebuilt PSU, nfl guy that could bring clout. I'd be good with that.

Freeze, Campbell, and O'Briend are solid options. Anyone else and especially dipping into lower ranks like Fickell or OC/DC's are just too risky. Herman has as good if not a better chance of success as anyone on that next tier of options with a much lower floor. TN can't afford to hire another complete failure that tanks the program with historic losses and program killing mismanagement a la Dooley, Butch, Pruitt.

 

[LTVol]

He's a nice dream just like many other guys we've hoped for. If he and his family are happy there, I'd see no reason to make a move into these difficult waters. Hell, even Liberty is paying 3m per year for a football coach. At some point, you have enough money and it becomes a matter of what makes you happy. I'd stay right where he is. No risk of getting fired in 3 years. He's at a place where he might just be able to retire there. Then again if he wants to test himself against the best, I hope he chooses UT. Frankly, I don't think we could get a big name here unless he had some baggage/flaws. Guys like Freeze and Kiffin who are viewed as "risky" would be most likely for UT.

Coaches with strong competitive instincts and ambition sooner or later want to test themselves at the highest level. Its funny that VN members always assume coaches want to stay where its easy. Not referring to you in particular, just saying.

 

[BeecherVol]

There is nothing in the facts that Fickell or Napier or insrt name here can recruit and win in the sec either. I'll take Freeze. He has done all of the above. Is he coming? If not, who is he next option that has a better track record as a HC? Everyone is going to be a gamble. Isn't it prudent to eliminate as many risks as possible? At least Herman has had success at multiple spots as a HC. He turned around a 16-21 Texas program. He has managed a big-tims program. He has signed top 5 classes.

Lol. Nothing is a guarantee with anyone boys. TN can't afford another hire that falls flat on their face with no semblance of success. So you have to go find the coach with the right mix of risk vs reward. Herman has lowest risk vs highest reward of any potential candidate unless you can get Campbell with a fat check or overlook the stuff with Freeze.

Ive never mention Fickell, Napier, or any other coach.

My point was simple. Herman has recruited better than OU (for that matter better than everybody in his conference) over the last 3 seasons. At Texas that shouldnt be a shock. The resources are there.
His last 3 classes at Texas (which is easier to recruit than UT)
2020 - #8
2019 - #3
2018 - #3
He's 17-9 in the Big 12 the last 3 years.
And he's still employed at least for the time being.

Ive posted my thoughts on Freeze in other threads but I'll put it here as well.
I think he's a good coach, but his time at Ole Miss questions how good.
He basically had 2 good seasons where he finished 2nd and 3rd in the west.
His recruiting and phone issues are well documented. The biggest question is can he win without all that.

Your 2 bold ideas are pretty accurate.

 

[BeecherVol]

I'd take Campbell over Herman. All day. Said it the first time. You're just too focused in your own opinions to be open minded and didn't pay attention.

Gus doesn't change his offense, the game has passed him by. Literally, he does not go to coaching clinics and has refused to update his offense. The SEC has figured him out. Hard pass. Guaranteed 6 losses a year.

O'Brien is intriguing. Rebuilt PSU, nfl guy that could bring clout. I'd be good with that.

Freeze, Campbell, and O'Briend are solid options. Anyone else and especially dipping into lower ranks like Fickell or OC/DC's are just too risky. Herman has as good if not a better chance of success as anyone on that next tier of options with a much lower floor. TN can't afford to hire another complete failure that tanks the program with historic losses and program killing mismanagement a la Dooley, Butch, Pruitt.

Gus coached at AU for 8 years. Most would agree the best conference and division in the country during that stretch. 3 NCs come from that division during that time.
He had one 6 loss season.

For comparison,
Malzahn's 8 years at AU winning percentage .66%
Herman's 4 years at Texas winning percentage .63%

 

[Birdie]

Ive never mention Fickell, Napier, or any other coach.

My point was simple. Herman has recruited better than OU (for that matter better than everybody in his conference) over the last 3 seasons. At Texas that shouldnt be a shock. The resources are there.
His last 3 classes at Texas (which is easier to recruit than UT)
2020 - #8
2019 - #3
2018 - #3
He's 17-9 in the Big 12 the last 3 years.
And he's still employed at least for the time being.

Ive posted my thoughts on Freeze in other threads but I'll put it here as well.
I think he's a good coach, but his time at Ole Miss questions how good.
He basically had 2 good seasons where he finished 2nd and 3rd in the west.
His recruiting and phone issues are well documented. The biggest question is can he win without all that.

Your 2 bold ideas are pretty accurate.

We can nitpick every single candidate for one thing or another. Campbell is probably the only hire the majority of the base would collectively agree is the "homerun" hire everyone wants. Outside of him we have to start picking and choosing what we can live with and what gives TN, in the current situation, the best chance to be successful.

What is success? Championships would be great but we can't beat UK and Vandy with regularity anymore. Maybe we should start with rebuilding the floor that has collapsed from underneath us. Be great if we could win 8-9 with regularity, then set our sights on more.

 

[Birdie]

Gus coached at AU for 8 years. Most would agree the best conference and division in the country during that stretch. 3 NCs come from that division during that time.
He had one 6 loss season.

For comparison,
Malzahn's 8 years at AU winning percentage .66%
Herman's 4 years at Texas winning percentage .63%

That doesn't address what I said. He literally refuses to change his offense. There are interviews where he is quoted he does not attend coaching clinics or try to learn new wrinkles. He had success and was innovative at one time. Adapt or die, he refuses to adapt. We aren't buying his past, we are buying his future.

 

[LittleVol]

Well Tom Herman has already beaten UGA on his first try. So there's that...

Pruitt's had 3 tries...and he's not even been within 2 tds.

Yeah, Herman would be a significant upgrade.

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

IT would be real nice if Fulmer would call this man and see if he would be interested in taking the UT job after this year..he would be a hell of a hire bar none....still young...Iowa state wins the Big 12 if they beat WV to.

Forget it. This program is no longer a target for coaches like Campbell. It was after the Butch firing, but we closed the door when Phildo hired a gump.

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

That doesn't address what I said. He literally refuses to change his offense. There are interviews where he is quoted he does not attend coaching clinics or try to learn new wrinkles. He had success and was innovative at one time. Adapt or die, he refuses to adapt. We aren't buying his past, we are buying his future.

He’s a Stallings clone, running the same s*** from the early 90s that no longer works. Gump.

 

[BeecherVol]

We can nitpick every single candidate for one thing or another. Campbell is probably the only hire the majority of the base would collectively agree is the "homerun" hire everyone wants. Outside of him we have to start picking and choosing what we can live with and what gives TN, in the current situation, the best chance to be successful.

What is success? Championships would be great but we can't beat UK and Vandy with regularity anymore. Maybe we should start with rebuilding the floor that has collapsed from underneath us. Be great if we could win 8-9 with regularity, then set our sights on more.

I didnt make the claim he would win 8 or 9 here with regularity.
Ive just pointed out that he has recruited better than everybody he's losing to. Which is more than just OU.

 

[BeecherVol]

That doesn't address what I said. He literally refuses to change his offense. There are interviews where he is quoted he does not attend coaching clinics or try to learn new wrinkles. He had success and was innovative at one time. Adapt or die, he refuses to adapt. We aren't buying his past, we are buying his future.

It actually did, this is what I bolded in your post.

The SEC has figured him out. Hard pass. Guaranteed 6 losses a year.

He hasnt lost 6 games since his 3rd season. Which was the only one.

He's winning at a higher rate in a tougher conference than Herman. And that's without the recruiting advantage.

And in regards to "buying the past".
Herman's best season to date at Texas was 10-4 (7-2).
2 years later, he's 14-8 (10-7) with at worse an even roster by comparison to OU and substantially better than everybody else in the Big 12.

 

[Birdie]

It actually did, this is what I bolded in your post.



He hasnt lost 6 games since his 3rd season. Which was the only one.

He's winning at a higher rate in a tougher conference than Herman. And that's without the recruiting advantage.

And in regards to "buying the past".
Herman's best season to date at Texas was 10-4 (7-2).
2 years later, he's 14-8 (10-7) with at worse an even roster by comparison to OU and substantially better than everybody else in the Big 12.

It actually did, this is what I bolded in your post.



He hasnt lost 6 games since his 3rd season. Which was the only one.

He's winning at a higher rate in a tougher conference than Herman. And that's without the recruiting advantage.

And in regards to "buying the past".
Herman's best season to date at Texas was 10-4 (7-2).
2 years later, he's 14-8 (10-7) with at worse an even roster by comparison to OU and substantially better than everybody else in the Big 12.

Gus took over a championship roster vs Texas being 16-21 the 3yrs prior vs Auburn's 25-13 and Natty. That obviously doesn't matter here.

Gus loses an average of 4.36 games a year for 8yrs. So what we do KNOW about Gus, is that he refuses to change his offense, is on the on back half of his career, and he is a coach who will go 8-4 or 8-5 almost every single year, best case scenario because he has a longer track of doing so

Comparably. Herman is a younger coach on the front half of his career who is winning at the same rate, higher if you consider their entire career, while still learning how to manage a major program. Has an offense that is fresh, not dated.

So objectively, if one them were to go from the 8-4 coach that their records say they are today to winning 10-2, 11-1 coach, most would say the younger coach has more upside. If you want Gus' 6-8 wins a year with zero upside, ok. Personally, I'd rather have the younger coach with a higher ceiling. If he fails and only wins 6-8 a year like Gus will, ok. At least we had chance for more.

And no, you still did not address the fact his offense is dated and he refuses to change it. It is why he loses 4-5 games every single year and why he got fired. He is an offensive guru with a dated offensive scheme