Michael Sam, Missouri DE, Is Gay

#752
#752
snake_anthony said:
Look. It's natural right?

Ok.

It's born that way?

Just saying maybe we should all rethink some things.

Mean dude just said he'd let his minor son and daughter shower with a gay 18 year old. Right?

Guys. I just trying to take what y'all say and correlate it to real life.
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If they are on the same high school/college team why the hell not? Also why the hell are coaches doing in the showers anyways?
 
#753
#753
snake_anthony said:
Mean dude just said he'd let his minor son and daughter shower with a gay 18 year old. Right?

Guys. I just trying to take what y'all say and correlate it to real life.
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There isn't a correlation between a kid showering with an openly gay classmate and a kid showering with an adult. The fact that the classmate is legally an adult doesn't change the fact that we're talking about peers, and not authority figures.
 
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#754
#754
bamawriter said:
What was your point? That I shouldn't let my young kids shower with a grown man? Thanks for the freaking news flash.

You jumped there from a hypothetical about allowing my high school aged kids to shower with a classmate. So whatever your point was, there is no way it wasn't stupid.
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Yeah the pediophilia wasn't what I was trying to highlight in any capacity.

We are talking about gay in locker rooms, in football, trusting situations will be ok and not harmful in any way, whether you'd allow your minor children I shower with an 18 year old gay boy, nature vs. nurture, if gay is natural and innate? Right?

Sorry you couldn't see past the shock value example.

Too much I get it.
 
#755
#755
gcbvol said:
I'm sure you understand there are other reasons for this. I'm sure being disowned by family and church, repeatedly reminded of your reserved spot in hell and being treated as second class citizens by much of society has something to do with depression and behaviors.

I think it's great you want everyone to live happy and healthy lives, but you really have a limited understanding of what it is to be gay. Very few of the gay folks I know are what I'd consider promiscuous. Some are, sure, but a minority. I've been with my partner for 20 years now, and no one else. Ever. One partner in my lifetime. Am I an anomaly? Perhaps, but there are plenty of us that are pretty damn boring couples.
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I have spent time researching this. I assumed someone would try to argue that the depression is caused by the reasons you listed. Since you are gay, I am surprised that I have researched this more than you.

There are studies where they have evaluated the very thing that you claim. They evaluated homosexuals in countries where it is more readiliy accepted, and in countries where homosexuality is a stigma. The results of the study showed that it didn't matter if you lived in a society that was socially accepting of homosexuals or in a "bigoted" society, the rates of depression were not significantly different.

It may be a minority of gay people who live extremely promiscuous lifestyles. The problem is, that that minority still represents a significant portion of the homosexual community. I do not vouch for all of the studies done on this subject, but with only a little bit of research, it becomes obvious that a large portion of homosexual men have many sexual partners in a given year, many times meeting a partner just once.

If you want to see how many gay men are living promiscuously, please just get on craigslist chattanooga. There are hundreds of posts daily just on that one site where men are looking for complete strangers to satisfy a desire. No, I am not saying that there aren't people such as yourself, and I have gay friends in committed relationships.
But because the lifestyle is unhealthy, in my opinion, it is immoral.
 
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#757
#757
Spartacavolus said:
question is why are you looking on craigslist for gay men.

Let it all out man. Let. it. out.
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I have no problem admitting that I could CHOOSE to live that way. Psychology tells you that you can learn to enjoy things, even things that are painful can be programmed to be enjoyed.
My homosexual friends have asked me, "why would anyone choose to be homosexual" well, it would be easier to live with someone of the same sex than to live with my wife, who thinks completely differently than how I think. Another man would be able to sympathize with my sexual desires, and would be more willing to regularly meet those desires.

But that's the beauty about the relationship between a man and a woman -- DIVERSITY! she brings a new perspective and new ideas that I would not have considered, and the way I think about things compliment her point of view. We are able to learn and grow from each other, because of the most diverse relationship that society has, males and females.

If I was in a committed relationship with another male, I would never get to enjoy that level of diversity, because men think similiarly to other men.
 
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#759
#759
goldvol said:
I have spent time researching this. I assumed someone would try to argue that the depression is caused by the reasons you listed. Since you are gay, I am surprised that I have researched this more than you.

There are studies where they have evaluated the very thing that you claim. They evaluated homosexualities in countries where it is more readiliy accepted, and in countries where homosexuality is a stigma. The results of the study showed that it didn't matter if you lived in a society that was socially accepting of homosexuals or in a "bigoted" society, the rates of depression were not significantly different.

It may be a minority of gay people who live extremely promiscuous lifestyles. The problem is, that that minority still represents a significant portion of the homosexual community. I do not vouch for all of the studies done on this subject, but with only a little bit of research, it becomes obvious that a large portion of homosexual men have many sexual partners in a given year, many times meeting a partner just once.

If you want to see how many gay men are living promiscuously, please just get on craigslist chattanooga. There are hundreds of posts daily just on that one site where men are looking for complete strangers to satisfy a desire. No, I am not saying that there aren't people such as yourself, and I have gay friends in committed relationships.
But because the lifestyle is unhealthy, in my opinion, it is immoral.
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With respect, I'll stick with my personal experience and that of the countless other gay people I have and do know and interact with to guide my understanding. While I appreciate the research you have done regarding homosexuals in an effort to ensure they live happy and healthy lives, I think real-life experience (my own and many other gay folks) exceeds significantly the research you've done. That's not meant to be snarky, but there is no way you can understand what it is to be gay if you are not gay yourself.

I work with at-risk GLBT youth charities and I see first had where self-hate and depresssion comes from. Here's a little secret to add to your research - you can't 'fix' gay. You can talk about the unhealthy "lifestyle" all you want, but that infers we have a choice in the matter. We don't. Well, maybe celibacy would make you happy.
 
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#765
#765
gcbvol said:
With respect, I'll stick with my personal experience and that of the countless other gay people I have and do know and interact with to guide my understanding. While I appreciate the research you have done regarding homosexuals in an effort to ensure they live happy and healthy lives, I think real-life experience (my own and many other gay folks) exceeds significantly the research you've done. That's not meant to be snarky, but there is no way you can understand what it is to be gay if you are not gay yourself.

I work with at-risk GLBT youth charities and I see first had where self-hate and depresssion comes from. Here's a little secret to add to your research - you can't 'fix' gay. You can talk about the unhealthy "lifestyle" all you want, but that infers we have a choice in the matter. We don't. Well, maybe celibacy would make you happy.
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You hit the talking points very well.

1. I can never understand you. Is it the fact that homosexuals are discriminated at high rates that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is the desire to be with someone of the same sex that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is there another aspect that you think I may not understand?

2. It's not a choice. Really, that's strange. You said you were in a committed relationship for 20 years. That implies that you made a choice at some point to have a relationship with that person. Also, you chose to be in a committed relationship with them. You could also have freely chosen another person to have a relationship with. I had a choice when I met my wife to call her back. I have a choice every day to stay faithful to my wife. There are women that I see every day that are attractive, but I choose to remain faithful in spite of the urge inside me that says it would be ok to sleep around.

When it comes to health, everyone has a choice. I can choose to eat donuts and drink coke everyday, but I will get fat. I can choose to sit at home and play video games, or I can read and get an education. And even though it is hard to relate to people of the opposite sex, I can choose to do what is hard because it is rewarding. By your own admission, for the last 20 years, you cannot relate to what it is like to be in an intimate, diverse relationship with someone of the opposite sex, so maybe it is you that does not understand me.
 
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#768
#768
Good lord. I am embarrassed to live in the south. Such bigotry, hatred, and ignorance. Not all, obviously. But ******n...
 
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#769
#769
goldvol said:
You hit the talking points very well.

1. I can never understand you. Is it the fact that homosexuals are discriminated at high rates that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is the desire to be with someone of the same sex that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is there another aspect that you think I may not understand?

2. It's not a choice. Really, that's strange. You said you were in a committed relationship for 20 years. That implies that you made a choice at some point to have a relationship with that person. Also, you chose to be in a committed relationship with them. You could also have freely chosen another person to have a relationship with. I had a choice when I met my wife to call her back. I have a choice every day to stay faithful to my wife. There are women that I see every day that are attractive, but I choose to remain faithful in spite of the urge inside me that says it would be ok to sleep around.

When it comes to health, everyone has a choice. I can choose to eat donuts and drink coke everyday, but I will get fat. I can choose to sit at home and play video games, or I can read and get an education. And even though it is hard to relate to people of the opposite sex, I can choose to do what is hard because it is rewarding. By your own admission, for the last 20 years, you cannot relate to what it is like to be in an intimate, diverse relationship with someone of the opposite sex, so maybe it is you that does not understand me.
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You are a fantastic dancer. Seriously. Danced all the way around the 'choice' at the heart of the issue - is sexuality a choice? Everything else, all those other choices you mention, stems from there. I am saying sexuality is innate; there is no choice. After that, certainly! I chose to enter into a committed same-sex relationship. I chose not to live a life of celibacy. I choose to foster empathy as a primary driver through life.

I don't understand your heterosexual relationship; I admit that. I cannot know because I am not heterosexual. Even if I forced a heterosexual relationship I wouldn't fully understand what you have. We agree. That is the very same reason I do not believe you can understand what life is for me. We're wired differently.
 
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#770
#770
RockyTop411 said:
I can't believe people are still trying to say that people are "born that way." :lol:
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The quickest way to get a better understanding of something you question or doubt is to go directly to the source.

If you've had honest dialogue with a gay man or woman, chances are they'd tell you they were attracted to the same sex at a very early age.
 
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#771
#771
goldvol said:
You hit the talking points very well.

1. I can never understand you. Is it the fact that homosexuals are discriminated at high rates that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is the desire to be with someone of the same sex that I am unable to sympathize with? Or is there another aspect that you think I may not understand?

2. It's not a choice. Really, that's strange. You said you were in a committed relationship for 20 years. That implies that you made a choice at some point to have a relationship with that person. Also, you chose to be in a committed relationship with them. You could also have freely chosen another person to have a relationship with. I had a choice when I met my wife to call her back. I have a choice every day to stay faithful to my wife. There are women that I see every day that are attractive, but I choose to remain faithful in spite of the urge inside me that says it would be ok to sleep around.

When it comes to health, everyone has a choice. I can choose to eat donuts and drink coke everyday, but I will get fat. I can choose to sit at home and play video games, or I can read and get an education. And even though it is hard to relate to people of the opposite sex, I can choose to do what is hard because it is rewarding. By your own admission, for the last 20 years, you cannot relate to what it is like to be in an intimate, diverse relationship with someone of the opposite sex, so maybe it is you that does not understand me.
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What a straw man arguement. Do people choose genetic disorders? So you just believe that it has nothing to do with brain chemistry or genetics? Just not possible, eh?

People can be born with a multitude of genetic differences and sexuality isn't one of them? Do animals figure out how to procreate through trial and error? No, they inheirantly know how. Is it possible that the thing that teaches them this in their brain, the one that is different from male to female can get mixed up? uhhh I would think so, yeah.
 
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#772
#772
RockyTop411 said:
I can't believe people are still trying to say that people are "born that way." :lol:
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I know I was born to like naked woman with big tits.
I knew I was that way form when I was born.
I know I have had to live like this my whole life.
I just had to accept it and go on with my life
 
#773
#773
gcbvol said:
You are a fantastic dancer. Seriously. Danced all the way around the 'choice' at the heart of the issue - is sexuality a choice? Everything else, all those other choices you mention, stems from there. I am saying sexuality is innate; there is no choice. After that, certainly! I chose to enter into a committed same-sex relationship. I chose not to live a life of celibacy. I choose to foster empathy as a primary driver through life.

I don't understand your heterosexual relationship; I admit that. I cannot know because I am not heterosexual. Even if I forced a heterosexual relationship I wouldn't fully understand what you have. We agree. That is the very same reason I do not believe you can understand what life is for me. We're wired differently.
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I will freely admit that sexual desire is not a choice. I will admit that many homosexual, and even hetersexual people, had little choice as to who they would be attracted to.

From my own experience, like many men, I was exposed to pornography at a very young age. I did not choose to see these explicit images of women. I hardly had an understanding of what the images were. But, without being told, I was immediatley infatuated with these pictures of naked women. So from my experience, I had no choice in the matter, but it did impact my sexual development.

Also, I was molested by a close family member of the opposite sex. I was very young, but do remember this experience. Is it possible that this had no impact on the development of my sexuality? Sure. But it seems much more likely that an experience that I did not choose had some impact on how my thoughts on sexuality developed.

Now, research tells us that about 25% of girls are molested at some point. Do you really think that this has no impact on how they develop psychologically? Did they have a choice, no. Please do not interpret this as me saying that homosexuals must have been molested or are molesters. But the way people are exposed to sexual content does impact their development.
 
#774
#774
goldvol said:
I will freely admit that sexual desire is not a choice. I will admit that many homosexual, and even hetersexual people, had little choice as to who they would be attracted to.

From my own experience, like many men, I was exposed to pornography at a very young age. I did not choose to see these explicit images of women. I hardly had an understanding of what the images were. But, without being told, I was immediatley infatuated with these pictures of naked women. So from my experience, I had no choice in the matter, but it did impact my sexual development.

Also, I was molested by a close family member of the opposite sex. I was very young, but do remember this experience. Is it possible that this had no impact on the development of my sexuality? Sure. But it seems much more likely that an experience that I did not choose had some impact on how my thoughts on sexuality developed.

Now, research tells us that about 25% of girls are molested at some point. Do you really think that this has no impact on how they develop psychologically? Did they have a choice, no. Please do not interpret this as me saying that homosexuals must have been molested or are molesters. But the way people are exposed to sexual content does impact their development.
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I think what confuses people is they get one concept of homosexual people in their mind and apply it to all of them.

I believe some are born that way, and that most are. I believe some people just will it into being so, but this is the minority. I also believe as you say, sexual content and contact early on can influence in ways that we may not even understand.
 
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