Missionaries, your thoughts?

#54
#54
volinbham said:
I certainly wouldn't advocate what you suggest above but the principle of sharing their faith while providing aid is fine with me.

I'm not concerned the recipients are so dumb/uninformed that they'll be duped.
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All things being equal, it would be better without. It doesn't add anything, and could cause harm.

That said, if people need the excuse of religion to help others, so be it. That is their problem. I really don't care.
 
#55
#55
rjd970 said:
All things being equal, it would be better without. It doesn't add anything, and could cause harm.

That said, if people need the excuse of religion to help others, so be it. That is their problem. I really don't care.
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Yeah. Fug those guys. They should sit at home like the rest of us, if they only do it because Jesus tells them to.
 
#56
#56
nbakerld said:
Yeah. Fug those guys. They should sit at home like the rest of us, if they only do it because Jesus tells them to.
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You really think HS graduates would take 2 years off, where a tie every day and ride a bike everywhere helping people just on their own?

BS. There is an agenda. Without the prostelyzing it wouldn't happen, and you know it.
 
#57
#57
rjd970 said:
You really think HS graduates would take 2 years off, where a tie every day and ride a bike everywhere helping people just on their own?

BS. There is an agenda. Without the prostelyzing it wouldn't happen, and you know it.
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I fail to see your point.

I'm pretty certain there wouldn't be 2 year mission programs, like the one I participated in, but I've also done humanitarian trips that were just a week where there was absolutely no proselytizing.
 
#58
#58
nbakerld said:
I fail to see your point.

I'm pretty certain there wouldn't be 2 year mission programs, like the one I participated in, but I've also done humanitarian trips that were just a week where there was absolutely no proselytizing.
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Explain to me how that is a missionary trip? I have no issue with that.

Again, the helping of others is fine, missionary or not. I've said as such. But the whole enterprise of missionary trips, especially with the Mormon and Jehova Witnesses, is nothing more than institutionalized marketing and cold knocking on doors looking for new members. The helping part is good enough, but I seriously doubt any of those missionaries would be out helping individuals if they didn't see some potential for conversion or good public relations for the church.
 
#59
#59
still be in the Dark Ages.

Matt 28:18 Jesus said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations".:rock:

He didn't say "go and feed the poor, but dear God, don't say a word about Me.:blink:

He also said, (paraphrased) "if you're ashamed of Me in this dark world, I will be ashamed of you when I return.
:eek:
 
#60
#60
Volsurance said:
still be in the Dark Ages.

Matt 28:18 Jesus said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations".:rock:

He didn't say "go and feed the poor, but dear God, don't say a word about Me.:blink:

He also said, (paraphrased) "if you're ashamed of Me in this dark world, I will be ashamed of you when I return.
:eek:
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Nothing like defending Christianity with Christianity. I do not accept the divine authority of your text or the historical existence of this mythical character named Jesus.

I would also like for you to explain how the entire world would still be in the "Dark Ages" without missionaries. It is common knowledge that the movement toward the Enlightenment was spurred by the reappearance of Aristotelian texts in Europe. These texts were preserved by the Arabs and the Muslims. They were brought to Europe through the Moorish invasion of Spain.

It can easily be argued that without Arab/Islamic aggression the Enlightenment would never have occurred. I would not argue that; however, it is certainly a more plausible and defensible statement than your first statement regarding missionaries and the dark ages.
 
#61
#61
By and large, I'm okay with missionary work. I've discussed it with a number of friends, Mormon, Protestant and Catholic, and it seems like an alright deal.
 
#62
#62
Volsurance said:
still be in the Dark Ages.

Matt 28:18 Jesus said, "Go and make disciples of all the nations".:rock:

He didn't say "go and feed the poor, but dear God, don't say a word about Me.:blink:

He also said, (paraphrased) "if you're ashamed of Me in this dark world, I will be ashamed of you when I return.
:eek:
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images
 
#63
#63
therealUT said:
Nothing like defending Christianity with Christianity. I do not accept the divine authority of your text or the historical existence of this mythical character named Jesus.

I would also like for you to explain how the entire world would still be in the "Dark Ages" without missionaries. It is common knowledge that the movement toward the Enlightenment was spurred by the reappearance of Aristotelian texts in Europe. These texts were preserved by the Arabs and the Muslims. They were brought to Europe through the Moorish invasion of Spain.

It can easily be argued that without Arab/Islamic aggression the Enlightenment would never have occurred. I would not argue that; however, it is certainly a more plausible and defensible statement than your first statement regarding missionaries and the dark ages.
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I never understand the anger coming from you when you get on your "mythical jesus" kick.

I can understand disagreeing but so much disdain just makes me wonder.
 
#64
#64
rjd970 said:
All things being equal, it would be better without. It doesn't add anything, and could cause harm.

That said, if people need the excuse of religion to help others, so be it. That is their problem. I really don't care.
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I disagree that it doesn't add anything - that is an individual choice assessment. Clearly for the vast majority of human beings religion adds something. Also see the harm as exaggerated.
 
#65
#65
volinbham said:
I disagree that it doesn't add anything - that is an individual choice assessment. Clearly for the vast majority of human beings religion adds something. Also see the harm as exaggerated.
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I don't see the harm as exaggerated. Hamas and Hezbollah are two of the biggest charitable groups in the ME, setting up orphanages, hospitals, shelters, etc. It's pretty hard to exaggerate the harm in this case, given what they are selling to those in need of the charitable services they offer. This, and also the significant percentage of "Muslim Charities" linked with terrorist organizations. See Christians preaching against birth control, etc...at some point, we need to evaluate if what people may or may not get out of the preaching is worth the cost.

I see what you are saying with exaggerated part, but I don't buy it offsets the "something" some people get out of it. Again, on balance, I think we would be better off with helping our fellow man and leaving the religion out of it. Even if it everything is benign with the teachings, it still leaves much to be wanted in terms of ulterior motives being at the root of why the good is being done.
 
#66
#66
NEOCON said:
I never understand the anger coming from you when you get on your "mythical jesus" kick.

I can understand disagreeing but so much disdain just makes me wonder.
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Me too. You can tell in his writing that there is a built up anger towards Christianity(religion). I wanna see a post of the his, where he has actually attack another religion.
 
#67
#67
volinreallife said:
Me too. You can tell in his writing that there is a built up anger towards Christianity(religion). I wanna see a post of the his, where he has actually attack another religion.
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He utilizes the power of logic and the ability to reason as afforded by the human brain to discern issues arising from various metaphysical beliefs. I've been a habitual lurker for many years. He seemingly meets all metaphysical beliefs with the same logical faculty. However, there are many more Christians on this board than "other religions" thus a greater chance of engaging Christians and their beliefs. He is not the boogieman, he is not out to get you.
 
#69
#69
rjd970 said:
Curious as to your opinion of Catholic missionaries in Africa giving aid, while at the same time, preaching the sinfulness of condom use. Here, we have an example of an otherwise benign belief turned lethal in a third world continent of uneducated and poor people ravaged by AIDS.

That is the extreme example, of course. However, on balance I'm of the opinion that we would all be best to give the aid and leave the fairytale stuff to people educated and informed enough to consider what they are being told.
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That's all fine and dandy if one believes they are mortal souls. The truth is that they have an eternal soul, regardless of their education level, though Therefore, I support SHOWING pple love first and foremost (the aid), then in a loving and compassionate way, sharing the Gospel with them.
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#71
#71
Gonna go the whole arab enlightment route the catholic church is nothing without Attila.
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#72
#72
volinbham said:
I disagree that it doesn't add anything - that is an individual choice assessment. Clearly for the vast majority of human beings religion adds something. Also see the harm as exaggerated.
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To add to that, ALL human beings worship something.
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#75
#75
T-TownVol said:
II Corinthians 4:3-5
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Another way of looking at things.

He that believes without have any reason for believing, may be in love with his own fancies; but neither seeks truth as he ought, nor pays the obedience due to his Maker, who would have him use those discerning faculties he has given him, to keep him out of mistake and error. He that does not this to the best of his power, however he sometimes lights on the truth, is in the right but by chance; and I know not whether the luckiness of the accident will excuse the irregularity of his proceeding. This at least is certain, that he must be accountable for whatever mistakes he runs into: whereas he that makes use of the light and faculties God has given him, and seeks sincerely to discover truth by those helps and abilities he has, may have this satisfaction in doing his duty as a rational creature, that, though he should miss truth, he will not miss the reward of it. For he governs his assent right, and places it as he should, who, in any case or matter whatsoever, believes or disbelieves according as reason directs him. He that doth otherwise, transgresses against his own light, and misuses those faculties which were given him to no other end, but to search and follow the clearer evidence and greater probability. ~ Locke
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