Mizzou roster vs UT roster

[titansvolsfaninga]

Actually, he had a nice game running the ball vs SCar. Had a 13 yd run on 3rd & 16 in the 2nd qtr.... had a key 11 yd run in the 4th on 3rd & 11 in the 4th to keep a drive alive.

Vs Georgia he had an 11 yd gain for a first down in the 2nd qtr, a couple plays before the td pass to North.

He wasn't a particularly willing runner last year. But he did have a few runs that showed that he can be effective with his feet. Sparty's post was more factual than not.

I was actually referring to the Peterson statement. In hindsight, I think Worley played well under the circumstances. We had a very young receiving corps last year.

 

[Vol8188]

I agree but my logic is actually pretty simple here.

You are in the midst of a tough season. Supposedly your Jr QB is ignoring your coaching and refusing to keep the ball enough to keep D's honest on the zone read... yet you don't replace him with guys who are supposedly better and more willing runners who can give you 4 full years? Does Jones really seem like a coach who would allow a player to ignore coaching?

I think the objective was to keep the RS on both Fr. I think the fact that Worley avoided running supports that as well as the fact they did not replace him for avoiding run reads.

Jones also said around the time of Worley's injury that the Fr were not ready to play. Bajakian within a week said that they were. To me that just seems to validate even more the idea that Jones was determined to maintain the RS's.

Fair enough. Hopefully this means Worley will either have to pull it more, or be benched then. I have no doubt he can run this offense, the question is does he want to.

But I can see what you're saying. Worley knew he had leverage and didn't have to pull because they didn't want to play anyone else over him. That line of thinking does leave me with serious doubts about Worleys mental makeup, though.

 

[sjt18]

Fair enough. Hopefully this means Worley will either have to pull it more, or be benched then. I have no doubt he can run this offense, the question is does he want to.

But I can see what you're saying. Worley knew he had leverage and didn't have to pull because they didn't want to play anyone else over him. That line of thinking does leave me with serious doubts about Worleys mental makeup, though.

It could be that... but again does Jones seem like the kind of guy that a player can refuse? And honestly even if you don't respect his ability, does Worley seem like that kind of guy?

I suspect that either a) they really didn't push him to run that much or b) they specifically narrowed his run keys in an effort to keep him from running and getting hit when he did.

 

[Burger]

I don't know if that was an attempt at hyperbole... but it is false.

Worley completed 56% of his passes with a WR corps that dropped lots of passes, could not read D's, ran the wrong routes, ran the right routes incorrectly,.... basically all the mistakes you know you have to tolerate from WR's getting their first significant playing time... compounded by the fact that NONE of them had really gotten alot of significant playing time previously.

Maybe that's the problem. You don't have a very good memory. Worley isn't even the worst passer in the past 8 or 10 years.

Crompton was 58% with experienced WR's and a very good TE. He was 52% as a first time starter with more INT's than TD's. Bray playing with experienced and talented WR's was 56% as a Fr then rose to 59% as a Soph. Ainge completed 55% of his passes as a Fr and then 45% as a Soph... again with WR's that had experience.

Of ALL the people who struggled through last season, Worley is the one MOST deserving of some slack.

You cannot miss a target that is five yards in front of you no matter who you are. If he had to make the passes Bray had to make, he'd be as low as 45%. There's a reason why a true freshman in Dobbs had a higher percentage. I remember all the underthrows Worley had. It was terrible to watch.

 

[AV_12]

You cannot miss a target that is five yards in front of you no matter who you are. If he had to make the passes Bray had to make, he'd be as low as 45%. There's a reason why a true freshman in Dobbs had a higher percentage. I remember all the underthrows Worley had. It was terrible to watch.

Well considering all Bray knew was to chunk it deep...

 

[sjt18]

You cannot miss a target that is five yards in front of you no matter who you are. If he had to make the passes Bray had to make, he'd be as low as 45%. There's a reason why a true freshman in Dobbs had a higher percentage. I remember all the underthrows Worley had. It was terrible to watch.

Yes. There are reasons. None of which had a thing to do with Dobbs being a more accurate passer overall.

One was the maturing of the WR's. Another was that MU, Aub, Vandy, and UK ranked 14th, 13th, 10th, and 6th in the SEC in pass D.

You can't cut routes off short either, right? You can't drop passes that hit you in the hands either, right? You can't run the wrong route, right?

You are GREATLY underestimating the effects of poor WR play on a QB's confidence in delivering the football.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

The Dobb-Goblin feels betrayed

Not really. have said repeatedly, which ever QB we put in will do a decent job. The Dobb Goblin is coming btu it doesn't mean writing off Worley. We will see both on the field but most foes will Goblin-ed up.

 

[k-town_king]

Yes. There are reasons. None of which had a thing to do with Dobbs being a more accurate passer overall.

One was the maturing of the WR's. Another was that MU, Aub, Vandy, and UK ranked 14th, 13th, 10th, and 6th in the SEC in pass D.

You can't cut routes off short either, right? You can't drop passes that hit you in the hands either, right? You can't run the wrong route, right?

You are GREATLY underestimating the effects of poor WR play on a QB's confidence in delivering the football.

Worley will probably start but Dobbs is more accurate. The numbers and the eyes tell you. Dobbs threw some freshmen mistake bad passes but never just in the dirt over their head like Worley regularly did. Worley also had North who was gone for half of Dobbs games. Against SEC teams Worley completed 52.4% with 3 tds and 4 ints. Dobbs completed 59.5%. 4th quarter Dobbs 62.5% 0ints, Worley 47.7% 2ints.

 

[dduncan4163]

The Dobb-Goblin feels betrayed

Everytime I hear that name I think of that MST3K episode Hobgoblins.

 

[dduncan4163]

Not to mention their recruiting class was terrible. Even UK was nearly top 20. Iirc Mizzou was barely top 40.

That will ultimately make them a Cellar team in the East. Vandy is on its way back there also. If you can't recruit at least a top 20 average class in the SEC these days you are going to be in bad shape.

 

[Burger]

Worley will probably start but Dobbs is more accurate. The numbers and the eyes tell you. Dobbs threw some freshmen mistake bad passes but never just in the dirt over their head like Worley regularly did. Worley also had North who was gone for half of Dobbs games. Against SEC teams Worley completed 52.4% with 3 tds and 4 ints. Dobbs completed 59.5%. 4th quarter Dobbs 62.5% 0ints, Worley 47.7% 2ints.

Exactly. SJT is just having those Worley fantasies. Patterson couldn't run a route, yet Bray still got it to him.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

This game is our best chance to get to 6 wins. They have to come to Neyland. That will be the difference.

 

[sjt18]

Worley will probably start but Dobbs is more accurate. The numbers and the eyes tell you. Dobbs threw some freshmen mistake bad passes but never just in the dirt over their head like Worley regularly did. Worley also had North who was gone for half of Dobbs games. Against SEC teams Worley completed 52.4% with 3 tds and 4 ints. Dobbs completed 59.5%. 4th quarter Dobbs 62.5% 0ints, Worley 47.7% 2ints.

If they had faced the same competition with the same level of WR play then you have a point. They didn't. While Dobbs' opponents included the worst two pass D's in the SEC... Worley's included #1 and #3.

By EVERYONE'S admission, North spent much of the season feeling his way through. Great talent. No idea of how to play WR. He got exponentially better as the season progressed... and he WAS the team's best WR.


I actually like the ball Dobbs throws. I like all the QB's and can support any of them... but I like Dobbs' game best of the 4. I end up defending Worley most often because he gets attacked IMO unfairly the most often.

 

[sjt18]

Exactly. SJT is just having those Worley fantasies. Patterson couldn't run a route, yet Bray still got it to him.

The fantasies are yours. Worley was nowhere near as inaccurate as you try to claim.

If Worley had had Hunter opposite North... OK. Worley's "go to" WR was a Fr playing WR for the first time in his life.

 

[KBVol]

If they had faced the same competition with the same level of WR play then you have a point. They didn't. While Dobbs' opponents included the worst two pass D's in the SEC... Worley's included #1 and #3.

By EVERYONE'S admission, North spent much of the season feeling his way through. Great talent. No idea of how to play WR. He got exponentially better as the season progressed... and he WAS the team's best WR.


I actually like the ball Dobbs throws. I like all the QB's and can support any of them... but I like Dobbs' game best of the 4. I end up defending Worley most often because he gets attacked IMO unfairly the most often.

Come on now 18, you're kinda splitting hairs here. Worley played vs APSU, WKy and SoAla..... they both got a half vs Bama...and Dobbs got Auburn, a natl champ game finalist, and Missouri, the team the Auburn beat in the SECCG. Let's be fair, it cuts both ways.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Dobbs lost to Vandy. I don't think he is the answer.

 

[Burger]

The fantasies are yours. Worley was nowhere near as inaccurate as you try to claim.

If Worley had had Hunter opposite North... OK. Worley's "go to" WR was a Fr playing WR for the first time in his life.

You don't remember those passes he missed as the WR was almost in front of him. Almost in front of him. This happened against almost every team he played against. Oregon, S.A., even in the SC game. He almost lost that one with all the three and outs because of his ducks.
Apparently, you forgot about those. You should feel blessed.

 

[sjt18]

Come on now 18, you're kinda splitting hairs here. Worley played vs APSU, WKy and SoAla..... they both got a half vs Bama...and Dobbs got Auburn, a natl champ game finalist, and Missouri, the team the Auburn beat in the SECCG. Let's be fair, it cuts both ways.

No. He's trying to make out like Worley is a talentless bum who throws the ball into the turf five yards short on every other throw. I am simply saying that is not true and that Dobbs played weaker competition (which he did) and played after the WR's began to have a little understanding (which is also true). If I had a bias then I would favor Dobbs because I like his feet and believe he throws a very nice ball... or Peterman who just seems like a really class kid. But Worley by virtue of consistently holding on to the job and enduring the "bleeding edge" takes the most abuse. I don't think that abuse is fair or legitimate.

The passing game regardless of who bears what % of the blame to include the coaching staff did not work last fall. I believe the QB position held up its end better than the WR position. This fall, there should be no excuse making. Z has had a couple of years with most of his WR's. Same with Bajakian and the QB's. The players have no reason not to understand their roles and positions. The rotation of guys who can make plays should go from basically 2 to about 7 or 8.

 

[sjt18]

You don't remember those passes he missed as the WR was almost in front of him. Almost in front of him. This happened against almost every team he played against. Oregon, S.A., even in the SC game. He almost lost that one with all the three and outs because of his ducks.
Apparently, you forgot about those. You should feel blessed.

In the process of watching the USCe game again, and.... nope... don't see it. I do see a gutsy guy playing with a severely injured thumb and struggling to grip the ball. Still he threw some very nice balls.


FWIW, there were a couple of passes early in the season that looked like ugly throws that the coaches later identified as WR issues. Be honest with yourself. If you are in the motion of throwing a ball to a spot where your WR SHOULD be breaking to... and just before release notice that the WR is doing something different... what will that pass look like? IF WR's do it on a regular basis... will you start to hesitate?

 

[sjt18]

Dobbs lost to Vandy. I don't think he is the answer.

Dobbs has grown up a lot. He was asked to play before he was ready.

He is not responsible for that loss. That one is on the coaches primarily.

 

[oregonvol]

sjt is right in that the passing game was so awful last year that you can't really pinpoint any one person as the problem. Clearly the QBs, WRs, the OL, and the coaches were all part of the problem.

The scary thing is, I wonder how much will be improved this year? We can guess that the WR position will be better based on recruiting rankings and hype, but we've seen how that can end up (see: our O-Line last year).

The coaches haven't changed. The QB situation hasn't changed. I don't know if you can count on stability in those two areas as positives or not. We've seen Worley for 3 years now. His numbers have always been awful. Even in his best games, his completion percentage and his yards per completion have been pretty much dead last in the SEC. But, I don't think anyone can point to any tangible evidence there is anyone over there better or more capable of being our starting QB right now. And that's very scary to me.

I would think, by year 2, we should be able to expect, at the very least, a winning season out of any competent coaching staff here, but at this point, I honestly don't know what to expect.

 

[sjt18]

Appreciate the opinion OV but I actually like all 4 QB's. System familiarity is an important factor that should give the O a nice boost this fall.

They have talent at WR. They have talent at QB. Now... can they coach?

 

[walkenvol]

sjt is right in that the passing game was so awful last year that you can't really pinpoint any one person as the problem. Clearly the QBs, WRs, the OL, and the coaches were all part of the problem.

The scary thing is, I wonder how much will be improved this year? We can guess that the WR position will be better based on recruiting rankings and hype, but we've seen how that can end up (see: our O-Line last year).

The coaches haven't changed. The QB situation hasn't changed. I don't know if you can count on stability in those two areas as positives or not. We've seen Worley for 3 years now. His numbers have always been awful. Even in his best games, his completion percentage and his yards per completion have been pretty much dead last in the SEC. But, I don't think anyone can point to any tangible evidence there is anyone over there better or more capable of being our starting QB right now. And that's very scary to me.

I would think, by year 2, we should be able to expect, at the very least, a winning season out of any competent coaching staff here, but at this point, I honestly don't know what to expect.

Strikes me as you place no value in the extra years experience gained by the players in the system and another year under the same coaching staff? To me, that consistency / experience logically should result in improved performances. The 2 new WR's are also super highly regarded along with being EE's.

You're being to pessimistic IMO.

 

[KBVol]

No. He's trying to make out like Worley is a talentless bum who throws the ball into the turf five yards short on every other throw. I am simply saying that is not true and that Dobbs played weaker competition (which he did) and played after the WR's began to have a little understanding (which is also true). If I had a bias then I would favor Dobbs because I like his feet and believe he throws a very nice ball... or Peterman who just seems like a really class kid. But Worley by virtue of consistently holding on to the job and enduring the "bleeding edge" takes the most abuse. I don't think that abuse is fair or legitimate.

The passing game regardless of who bears what % of the blame to include the coaching staff did not work last fall. I believe the QB position held up its end better than the WR position. This fall, there should be no excuse making. Z has had a couple of years with most of his WR's. Same with Bajakian and the QB's. The players have no reason not to understand their roles and positions. The rotation of guys who can make plays should go from basically 2 to about 7 or 8.

I agree with most everything in your post and you know I don't think Worley is a bum. I've defended the kid. Only thing I disagree about is saying Worley played more difficult competition. I'll even stretch and say it was a wash....

Worley- APSU, WKy, So Ala, Oregon, Florida, Georgia, SCar, Bama

Dobbs- Bama, Missouri, Auburn, Vandy, Ky

Dobbs played 2 average to bad teams in Vandy and Ky; Worley played 3 in APSU, WKy, So Ala ( and threw 3 picks vs SoAla)

They both had a half vs Bama.... it wasn't completely apples to apples because it was 35-0 when Dobbs came in to start the 3rd... but Worley more than did his part to contribute to the 35-0 deficit with a poor 1st half, so I call that a wash, if not slight edge Dobbs...he looked good vs Bama's 4 and 5 stars in the 2nd half

Dobbs played at Missouri, the SEC East champ, vs Auburn, the 2nd best team in the country, and would've had to score 900 pts to beat them. Worley got both Georgia and SCar at home and played very well at times, pretty pedestrian at others.

Obviously Worley got a good Florida team on the road in the second half, no cakewalk, he played ok... not really bad, not really good. But Florida proved not to be the team they normally are partially due to injury.

For Worley, Oregon was obviously very difficult. After the first drive, the O did nothing, contributing to a 59-0 Oregon run.

Finally, while Worley had North early on, just as he was maturing, Dobbs didn't have him at all vs Vandy and Kentucky.

Again, I'm a Worley defender as you know. Just disagree with the one argument that Worley played more difficult teams. Everything else I'm with you.

 

[oregonvol]

Strikes me as you place no value in the extra years experience gained by the players in the system and another year under the same coaching staff? To me, that consistency / experience logically should result in improved performances. The 2 new WR's are also super highly regarded along with being EE's.

You're being to pessimistic IMO.

I don't think there is enough evidence that we can simply assume that there will be improvement based on an extra year with the same staff. People just assumed that during the Fulmer years and plenty of times, that wasn't the case. People just assumed it in the Dooley years and it wasn't the case.

We didn't see much (if any) improvement throughout the season last year. We didn't see much (if any) improvement from the year before (despite players having the full off-season with the coaches). I don't see where anyone should simply assume there would be significant improvement in this off-season. Certainly it should be the case. But, at this point, after all the failures in this program from what "should" happen and what it "should" be, I don't think you can take for granted that it is the case.