MTG Calls for Red State Secession

[GAVol]

Keep in mind we are talking about a country born out of revolution and secession... So yes, it is as American as apple pie.

It's literally the first 2 paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence. That being said . . . MTG isn't Thomas Jefferson . . . or even George Jefferson.

 

[GAVol]

The funniest part is she likely thinks she would be part of the ruling class if this happened. That ho should be making decisions for no one. Especially pushing ones she doesn't currently endorse

She's AOC with even worse advisers.

 

[n_huffhines]

I don't think it is a problem...or shouldn't be. Personal liberty applied in America increases with age. Even at 18, the individual isn't free to make all personal decisions.

So, the 15 year old would have conditional liberty and the full scope would now be the parents responsibility. If the child and the parents wanted to choose a change of reproductive bits, they should be free to do so.

This is all based on the idea that 18 is the age where we should have personal freedom and it's completely arbitrary. It's a denial of personal freedom, you're just saying we are justified in denying it. If we default to personal liberty, then they should have the choice, right?

I picked 15 because some parents are marrying their 15 YO's to dudes in their 50's, and this is legal because of personal liberty reasons. I have a problem with it but IDK what right is.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

For metaphysical reasons that I cannot even support with a Bible, I believe some people on the other side are evil so I can't have a peaceful resolution to our national divide, and it's their fault.

Only one side has threatened death and loss of livelihood towards the other. There is no reconciling that.

 

[Vol8188]

This is all based on the idea that 18 is the age where we should have personal freedom and it's completely arbitrary. It's a denial of personal freedom, you're just saying we are justified in denying it. If we default to personal liberty, then they should have the choice, right?

I picked 15 because some parents are marrying their 15 YO's to dudes in their 50's, and this is legal because of personal liberty reasons. I have a problem with it but IDK what right is.

The “it” you have a problem with is marriage at 15, genital mutilation, or both?

I’m getting the feeling your answer isn’t both

 

[Vol8188]

I thought the “should 5 year olds be allowed to purchase heroin” moment for the libertarian party was funny and maybe a bit sad.

But now our resident libertarian is creeping towards “5 year olds should be allowed to permanently alternate their genitalia”

 

[McDad]

This is all based on the idea that 18 is the age where we should have personal freedom and it's completely arbitrary. It's a denial of personal freedom, you're just saying we are justified in denying it. If we default to personal liberty, then they should have the choice, right?

I picked 15 because some parents are marrying their 15 YO's to dudes in their 50's, and this is legal because of personal liberty reasons. I have a problem with it but IDK what right is.

Agree that any age is arbitrary to empower with full personal liberty. It doesn't have to be 18. But some threshold is necessary.
Denial of personal freedom before the arbitrary age isn't a right or wrong construct. It is a practical or impractical construct. It isn't practical to allow children their full measure of rights until such time those rights can be autonomously and judiciously applied. But the children with conditional rights are under their parents full measure of rights which gives the child (and the people closest to it...the one's most equipped to make a decision) de facto autonomous and practical rights.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

This is all based on the idea that 18 is the age where we should have personal freedom and it's completely arbitrary. It's a denial of personal freedom, you're just saying we are justified in denying it. If we default to personal liberty, then they should have the choice, right?

I picked 15 because some parents are marrying their 15 YO's to dudes in their 50's, and this is legal because of personal liberty reasons. I have a problem with it but IDK what right is.

OK, since you want to play that game. Why don't we grant a person rights at the moment of conception?

 

[kiddiedoc]

Agree that any age is arbitrary to empower with full personal liberty. It doesn't have to be 18. But some threshold is necessary.
Denial of personal freedom before the arbitrary age isn't a right or wrong construct. It is a practical or impractical construct. It isn't practical to allow children their full measure of rights until such time those rights can be autonomously and judiciously applied. But the children with conditional rights are under their parents full measure of rights which gives the child (and the people closest to it...the one's most equipped to make a decision) de facto autonomous and practical rights.

Parents often make terrible and sometimes very harmful decisions for their children. That's why we have child protection laws. I would call cutting off organs and chemical sterilization abusive acts. What happens when the 22 year old now decides she wants to have a baby?

 

[landscapingvol]

Define patriotic?

She isn’t wrong. The blue states are going to drive this nation into the abyss

 

[evillawyer]

I didn’t know Marjorie Taylor has three toes. You never stop learning!

 

[ClearwaterVol]

2 years ago, one side wanted to threaten their lives, liberties and ability to earn a living based on the jab. In 2020, the other side staged street protests and civil disorder and later that year stole an election.

It is far more than just differing political ideologies. Its about right vs wrong and life vs death.

Stole an election. Good god you're stupid.

 

[McDad]

Parents often make terrible and sometimes very harmful decisions for their children. That's why we have child protection laws. I would call cutting off organs and chemical sterilization abusive acts. What happens when the 22 year old now decides she wants to have a baby?

Parents do make horrible decisions. But there isn't a system which prevents poor decision making. Making laws which protect one group from another (in this case children from parents) isn't the answer. Laws beget laws. State protections beget more state protections. Once that pandora's box is opened, now those who seek power will administer their protection-policies on everyone...even if those policies are at odds with reasonable, conscientious parents with good judgement. That knife cuts both ways.
That's why the default should be to personal liberty. It prevents some political do-gooder with an agenda the opportunity to enforce their version of protection.

ETA: We can discuss how to mitigate children being born to parents with poor judgement, though.

 

[landscapingvol]

Stole an election. Good god you're stupid.

Is this you being a centrist again?

 

[utvolpj]

She isn’t wrong. The blue states are going to drive this nation into the abyss

So blue states are more dependent on fed money than red?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So to be clear, it is now OK to make fun of people's deformities or disabilities?

 

[landscapingvol]

So blue states take more fed money than red?

Never insinuated that but nice deflection, I am merely talking about their war on nearly everything most Americans agree with. There are plenty of Republicans that need to be shown the door as well

 

[McDad]

So to be clear, it is now OK to make fun of people's deformities or disabilities?

If they are politicians, yes. It should not only be OK, it should be required.

 

[n_huffhines]

Only one side has threatened death and loss of livelihood towards the other. There is no reconciling that.

No pro-lifer, not even the ones building bombs to kill pro-choicers, has ever threatened death penalty for abortionists - Ras

 

[landscapingvol]

If they are politicians, yes. It should not only be OK, it should be required.

The “ableist” mantra is one of the dumber arguments ever created. Umm yeah our nation’s leaders shouldn’t be idiots or incapable of doing their jobs

 

[utvolpj]

Never insinuated that but nice deflection, I am merely talking about their war on nearly everything most Americans agree with. There are plenty of Republicans that need to be shown the door as well

If nearly everyone agreed they would not be pushing the opposite. That would jeopardize their power and ability to make money.

Spending and massive debt are some of the biggest issues so claiming that's a blue state problem seems to be off base

 

[kiddiedoc]

ETA: We can discuss how to mitigate children being born to parents with poor judgement, though.

You would probably not be surprised that I have patients that are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th consecutive drug-addicted babies at birth.

There's an easy fix for that.

 

[landscapingvol]

No pro-lifer, not even the ones building bombs to kill pro-choicers, has ever threatened death penalty for abortionists - Ras

Is this the “Spanish Inquisition and Salem Witch trials were just as bad as the Armenian, Sudan, and Nigerian genocides” argument when defending Muslims?

 

[landscapingvol]

If nearly everyone agreed they would not be pushing the opposite. That would jeopardize their power and ability to make money.

Spending and massive debt are some of the biggest issues so claiming that's a blue state problem seems to be off base

Assuming that everyone votes for their own self interests is a bit of stretch, on the contrary most people vote party line’s regardless of the future implications

 

[McDad]

You would probably not be surprised that I have patients that are the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th consecutive drug-addicted babies at birth.

There's an easy fix for that.

It doesn't surprise me. It may surprise you that I do not believe in reproductive rights and would support a system which mandated sterility until the parents could prove themselves worthy of raising a child.