MTG: How to stop mass shootings

[C-south]

You are throwing in a bunch of unrelated things. You can keep tax incentives without continuing a system that currently allows many to receive more money than they not only paid in taxes, but more money than they even made in the year.

Yes, some choices are better than others. For example it's beneficial for everyone if you invest. Our tax system incentivizes that. Coupling is better for society. Our system in some ways encourages that (in others it penalizes).

These seems personal for you.

It’s not personal at all. The system is ridiculously flawed.

 

[utvolpj]

Huh? Tell me what I'm missing here.

1. She cheated on her husband according to you (I'm sure you're right, and don't care enough to look into it).
2. She believes strong families are needed and important.
3. This is where I'm losing you....She is wrong about 2 because some people cheat?

It seems like you're fighting a strawman. I don't think she's condoning cheating. She condoned families. Is there a line in her post that I'm missing that is why you're talking specifically about cheating? Or is this just a strawman?

When I say "two parent households are better than 1", I'm not proclaiming outliers don't exist. I don't think she's saying that either.

Of course she condones it is she participated in it.

I'm not going to hire a fat person to help me get healthy and lose weight. I'm also not going to listen about family values from a married woman banging dudes at the gym. Call me small minded if you you wish

 

[marcusluvsvols]

MTG, Aoc, Boebert, Talib, Omar, etc. None should be in that position

Sounds fair i guess...if what youre saying is "these people are batsheit crazy and shouldn't be shaping legislation for our country."

If i misread you...and you meant " the far lefties and far righties shouldnt be there" then i strongly disagree.

Pretty sure it is the former and not the latter though. We dont always agree but i respect your intellect.

 

[n_huffhines]

Of course she condones it is she participated in it.

I'm not going to hire a fat person to help me get healthy and lose weight. I'm also not going to listen about family values from a married woman banging dudes at the gym. Call me small minded if you you wish

And why would you listen to her when she's offering nothing of substance? Saying we need more Fathers at home is one of the most no-**** comments in politics that you can possibly make, and she didn't present the idea in any actionable way. It'd be like hiring a fat person to tell you to "stop being fat, quit with the mental health problems, have more faith" and that's all the advice they offer.

 

[utvolpj]

Sounds fair i guess...if what youre saying is "these people are batsheit crazy and shouldn't be shaping legislation for our country."

If i misread you...and you meant " the far lefties and far righties shouldnt be there" then i strongly disagree.

Pretty sure it is the former and not the latter though. We dont always agree but i respect your intellect.

Definitely the former but I do feel we'd be better served of we sidelined the extremes for a while. Quit giving them so much airplay

 

[Vol8188]

Of course she condones it is she participated in it.

I'm not going to hire a fat person to help me get healthy and lose weight. I'm also not going to listen about family values from a married woman banging dudes at the gym. Call me small minded if you you wish

That may be the single dumbest thing I've read on here. Do you personally condone all of your past actions?

You don't have to listen to someone you consider a hypocrite. That's true. But you may be the one missing on some honesty and wisdom. It's not the best players who make the best coaches. Rather it's the ones who struggle.

 

[Vol8188]

And why would you listen to her when she's offering nothing of substance? Saying we need more Fathers at home is one of the most no-**** comments in politics that you can possibly make, and she didn't present the idea in any actionable way. It'd be like hiring a fat person to tell you to "stop being fat, quit with the mental health problems, have more faith" and that's all the advice they offer.

That's fair. I agree with her about the need for cultural changes, but beyond that she doesn't have a well laid out argument that's supported by facts.

But that's a different point than "she's a hypocrite".

 

[utvolpj]

That may be the single dumbest thing I've read on here. Do you personally condone all of your past actions?

You don't have to listen to someone you consider a hypocrite. That's true. But you may be the one missing on some honesty and wisdom. It's not the best players who make the best coaches. Rather it's the ones who struggle.

I do unless I admit they were wrong. Has she done that?

You're right there could be that morbidly obese trainer who would change my life and I'm missing out. Oh well I'll just stick with a guy who looks like Jeff Cavaliere

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It would definitely hasten our demise into Idiocracy

I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If this is your logic, then please let me venmo you money every year to not vote.

I don't vote regularly, so you owe me some back pay.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Wait, singling out one of the named factors and discussing it isn't staying on topic, LOL?

No, you were on topic, but you made the comment about single out one factor. That is what I was focusing on.

 

[TRUEFANVol]

That may be the single dumbest thing I've read on here. Do you personally condone all of your past actions?

You don't have to listen to someone you consider a hypocrite. That's true. But you may be the one missing on some honesty and wisdom. It's not the best players who make the best coaches. Rather it's the ones who struggle.

It may not be the best players who make the best coaches, but it certainly isn't the ones who struggle either.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes, it makes her wrong. Maybe the men who leave a cheating partner are just stronger than hers. Who really knows

So basically, ad hominem. Attack the messenger but not the message.

If Dr. Fauci says the sky is blue or water is wet, then I guess I need to dismiss that.

 

[Vol8188]

I do unless I admit they were wrong. Has she done that?

You're right there could be that morbidly obese trainer who would change my life and I'm missing out. Oh well I'll just stick with a guy who looks like Jeff Cavaliere

So she has to admit to you what she’s done wrong? I’m not seeing the problem. Unless she confesses publicly somehow her opinion is worth less?

 

[DinkinFlicka]

So basically, ad hominem. Attack the messenger but not the message.

If Dr. Fauci says the sky is blue or water is wet, then I guess I need to dismiss that.

Water isn't wet.

 

[utvolpj]

So basically, ad hominem. Attack the messenger but not the message.

If Dr. Fauci says the sky is blue or water is wet, then I guess I need to dismiss that.

Her message is a poorly written regurgitation of the past couple decades of right wing speak. It's red meat to a base who thinks it's literature. Yes, if a q-nut starts lecturing me on the govt then I'm going to dismiss it. Every single time

 

[TRUEFANVol]

So she has to admit to you what she’s done wrong? I’m not seeing the problem. Unless she confesses publicly somehow her opinion is worth less?

It's a personal choice as to the value of her opinion

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Her message is a poorly written regurgitation of the past couple decades of right wing speak. It's red meat to a base who thinks it's literature. Yes, if a q-nut starts lecturing me on the govt then I'm going to dismiss it. Every single time

So now it's not about her infidelity, its about her being a Q follower and having poor writing skills. Again, that does that make 2+2=4 less true if she says it? Or in the topic we are talking about, where she mentions drugs, fatherlessness and morality, does it make it less plausible just because she says it?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It's a personal choice as to the value of her opinion

True. I've just seen attacks on her personally but hardly a glove put on what she actually said... or in one instance in here, misrepresent by parsing away one item she mentioned and then conclude that one item was being used as the sole factor in school shootings.

 

[utvolpj]

So now it's not about her infidelity, its about her being a Q follower and poor writing skills. Again, that does that make 2+2=4 less true if she says it? Or in the topic we are talking about, where she mentions drugs, fatherlessness and morality, does it make it less plausible just because she says it?

It's about all of it. If someone fails in that many aspects then I have no reason to listen. If there is not an original thought offered why does anyone?

Two of the 3 you listed ( drugs, fatherlessness and morality) are not values of hers so why would I take her ramblings seriously?

 

[Rickyvol77]

So now it's not about her infidelity, its about her being a Q follower and having poor writing skills. Again, that does that make 2+2=4 less true if she says it? Or in the topic we are talking about, where she mentions drugs, fatherlessness and morality, does it make it less plausible just because she says it?

You believe any Q-Anon nutjob though...because they appeal to your irrational conspiracy views...

You post the likes of Zerohedge, RT, Alex Jones, Epoch Times, and the disgraced fired police wingnut, and then get defensive when people correctly point out their lies and BS and propaganda...

I dont listen or blindly believe CNN, Fox, NBC or anyone else without diving in and looking further, but you slurp up Q Anon nuts and believe EVERY narrative every time, even when facts prove otherwise

 

[marcusluvsvols]

I do find it interesting that over the last 20 years, ant-depressant prescription meds to the young are up something like 30x. Can't tell me that isn't a major factor, if not the primary one. Big Pharma strikes again.

And its not just antidepressants.

ADHD diagnoses and prescriptions are similar numbers to 30x as many kids by % over the last 30 years are on amphetamines like Ritalin etc.

My wife and daughter both truly are ADHD...nearly incapable of only doing 1 thing at a time...have 50 tasks in progress but none will ever get fully completed more than 90%..truly incapable of sitting still and not fidgeting or otherwise trying to deflect their nervous energy...i could go on forever.

We have never medicated our kids because we saw that as a last resort. My son struggles some with depression despite being HS valedictorian, 3 year varsity soccer player and co-captain etc. I have always struggled with depression and at times periods of suicidal ideation and desires. I have spoken openly in the Gramps OT thread about my struggles from time to time.

We are way, way over- medicated as a nation and a species (humans). By the same Bigpharma and their lobbyists which are responsible for the opioid crisis. The leading ..LEADING..cause of death for Americans 50yo and younger is now opiate overdoses. It passed car accidents, drunk driving, obesity complications, etc etc. Token lawsuits ending in billion $ joint settlements are good...though after the fact they will never replace the dead or addicted millions of Americans already ruined lives. That money will be pilfered, pet project wasted, outright embezzled ....and at best will result in a few treatment centers opened that will never, ever meet the current demand. Just like the billions from the tobacco company settlements.

What? What billions from tobacco companies? Yeah despite being a smoker i had never heard of it, either. Yep...tobacco product manufacturers like Phillip Morris (Marlboros) , Winston etc gave up billions of $ more than a decade ago. Where did it all go? That occasional commercial you may have heard or add you have seen in a newspaper or magazine is ALL that ever came from those billions....the rest was pilfered and back room dealt to buddies of politicians etc. The EXACT same thing will happen to the opiate crisis settlements. It always does.

Read some about the Sackler family (oxycontin) and how they kept increasing...increasing production, bonuses to drug reps pushing the pills and even doctors for prescribing them...all the while knowing that their main marketing ploy (that these pills were somehow LESS prone to addiction and dependence than prior drugs of the same) was complete and 100% bullsheit and that millions of Americans were destroying their lives and families to fight off the terrible symptoms and sickness that comes from with drawal from these pills. Internal (now public due to FOIA) emails and studies prove that the entire company leadership knew these things were poison, death, and destruction years before they were ever forced to admit it and curtail production and distribution. The Sackler family made billions of dollars...billions more than their recent settlements...which they only made under the condition that they did not have to admit guilt or claim responsibility for their crimes. Our OWN justice dept publicly slammed the settlement and judges ...picketed in some cases and went on record saying this was a gross abuse of the legal system and total sham settlement.

Big pharma is the 2nd or 3rd? Largest lobbyist collectively in D.C....pretty much every politician at the national level is filling their coffers with the $ from them in 1 way or another. Meanwhile we have a mental health crisis in this country like never before seen, old people on fixed incomes that have to choose between getting their medications and basic necessities in many cases, murder and suicide rates thru the roof etc.

All of it bought and paid for behind closed doors from billionaire big pharma to millionaire career politicians. God bless America...nevermind. We did our best to get rid of Him too...

 

[GroverCleveland]

Who receives the most deductions, credits, etc at tax time? Those filing single or everyone else? What is the point in taxation if certain people are granted heavy relief due to their own personal life choices? Hell some people make more money at tax time than they do all year. It is ridiculous.

Okay, while I definitely am not a fan of the current tax system and I hate income taxes period because this country did fine without them until after WW1 (exceptions during a couple of wars), the tax code is nominally structured to encourage behavior that benefits society. On the whole, families with children are deemed good for society, so tax breaks are given for having children. It would be a difficult argument to make that the deductions given for dependent children come close to paying a fraction of the cost of raising them. With regards to the burden on society, again in general, complete families with fathers may be less of a burden than fatherless families because of the costs of dealing with the multitude of problems that arise from kids raised in fatherless homes. Again, in general, there are plenty of exceptions.

It is an interesting line of discussion.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Two of the 3 you listed ( drugs, fatherlessness and morality) are not values of hers so why would I take her ramblings seriously?

Again, why does it make what she said less true... or maybe not even true, because it is her opinion and not necessarily fact... less plausible?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You believe any Q-Anon nutjob though...because they appeal to your irrational conspiracy views...

You post the likes of Zerohedge, RT, Alex Jones, Epoch Times, and the disgraced fired police wingnut, and then get defensive when people correctly point out their lies and BS and propaganda...

I dont listen or blindly believe CNN, Fox, NBC or anyone else without diving in and looking further, but you slurp up Q Anon nuts and believe EVERY narrative every time, even when facts prove otherwise

And you bootlick and defend the status quo. Anything that runs against the main narrative is the gospel, you don't question anything. You are the most dangerous type of sheep out here. You would kill someone if it was "legal" or "just following protocol".