Nashville to vote on English only today

[KB5252]

Ah, yes, the "we are doing it for their own good" theory.

Please.






First, and I repeat, anyone who wants to succed in this country knows full well that they need to learn English. A law stating that does not change anything.

Second, your analogizing the Hispanic popul;ation to other groups, as you put it, "from other linagustic backgrounds" is a joke. You know full well that no other group of that size comes in with a native tongue. The Hispanic situation is totally different than any other and the analogy is a very poor one.

Third, I am not familiar with this law you speak of whereby every Hispanic student gets his own tutor. Can you provide a link? Or, more likely, this is just some sort of made-up problem designed to delude the feeble minded into thinking that their tax dollars are going to an army of Spanish speaking tutors.





I am as certain that Nashville will pass it as I am that no other City gives a crap what Nashville does on this issue. Which is to say 100 %.

I was in no way trying to imply this was the main reason for advocating English. It is however true that there are employers out there who seek to take non English speaking immigrants, both legal and illegal, and exploit them for cheap labor. It could only be considered a positive side effect.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

It is already state law. TCA 4-1-404. English is hereby established as the official and legal language of Tennessee. All communications and publications, including ballots, produced by governmental entities in Tennessee shall be in English, and instruction in the public schools and colleges of Tennessee shall be conducted in English unless the nature of the course would require otherwise. [Acts 1984, ch. 821, � 1.]

This election has become nothing more than a proxy war between the left and right (not R vs. D, but liberal intelligencia vs. social conservatives) over symbols. When this first came up, I thought it was a pretty crack-pot idea but as the campaign has developed and so many people have picked sides I have come to the conclusion that many of the "NO" people are the usual nanny state, big government proponents that I generally disagree with. While I still think English Only/First is unncessary, I would like to see the effete socialist community here in Nashville take one on the chin right about now.

 

[lawgator1]

It is already state law. TCA 4-1-404. English is hereby established as the official and legal language of Tennessee. All communications and publications, including ballots, produced by governmental entities in Tennessee shall be in English, and instruction in the public schools and colleges of Tennessee shall be conducted in English unless the nature of the course would require otherwise. [Acts 1984, ch. 821, � 1.]

This election has become nothing more than a proxy war between the left and right (not R vs. D, but liberal intelligencia vs. social conservatives) over symbols. When this first came up, I thought it was a pretty crack-pot idea but as the campaign has developed and so many people have picked sides I have come to the conclusion that many of the "NO" people are the usual nanny state, big government proponents that I generally disagree with. While I still think English Only/First is unncessary, I would like to see the effete socialist community here in Nashville take one on the chin right about now.

I agree with your assessment about what the proposal is really all about, which is to say the two sides acting like 8 year olds going "nanny nanny boo boo" at each other. Honestly, have we got nothing better to do with our time than get into pissing matches over irrelevant and completely pointless stuff like this?

VHB, you and I sometimes see eye to eye, sometimes not. But if you go back and look at the evolution of your motivational process on this as articulated by you above, I think you will see what I mean here.

 

[joevol320]

i wonder what the cost is to print 2 of everything. how much does it cost to hire hundreds of translators. because they have a bunch of illegals that can't speak english.

 

[gasguy98]

The fact that this come to a vote is just ridiculous.

That is the sad thing. American culture has rotted away to the point issues like this are even discussed.
This should simply not be an issue. If one lives anywhere in the United States they should learn at least enough English to get by. It is not the governments responsibility to accomodate an immigrant, it is the immigrant's duty to become an American.

By having these "issues" all we are doing is balkanizing the country. We, as citizens need to demand that those that wish to live here respect our language and culture.

 

[DC Vol]

That is the sad thing. American culture has rotted away to the point issues like this are even discussed.
This should simply not be an issue. If one lives anywhere in the United States they should learn at least enough English to get by. It is not the governments responsibility to accomodate an immigrant, it is the immigrant's duty to become an American.

By having these "issues" all we are doing is balkanizing the country. We, as citizens need to demand that those that wish to live here respect our language and culture.

What is American culture?

 

[Cartervol]

That is the sad thing. American culture has rotted away to the point issues like this are even discussed.
This should simply not be an issue. If one lives anywhere in the United States they should learn at least enough English to get by. It is not the governments responsibility to accomodate an immigrant, it is the immigrant's duty to become an American.

By having these "issues" all we are doing is balkanizing the country. We, as citizens need to demand that those that wish to live here respect our language and culture.

Its already law, it should be a dead issuse. Just a waste of taxpayer dollars, something like 350k for this silly vote. Whole state in a huge budget crisis and they find a way to spend 350k on something thats already law.

 

[KB5252]

Its already law, it should be a dead issuse. Just a waste of taxpayer dollars, something like 350k for this silly vote. Whole state in a huge budget crisis and they find a way to spend 350k on something thats already law.

Wait until we start offering services in four different languages (as is done in other cities)), then look at the salary of those employed to offer those services annually. The 350k would seem like a much better investment.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

VHB, you and I sometimes see eye to eye, sometimes not. But if you go back and look at the evolution of your motivational process on this as articulated by you above, I think you will see what I mean here.

I get your point, although I think it is important that the social engineers understand that they do not have a mandate to remake us in the image of France, something that many of my overeducated neighbors would probably argue my ears off over. Proposition 8 was a good start. This vote could just be another brick in the wall. And I say that as someone who is not opposed to gay marriage and is already on record re: English Only/First in this thread.

 

[gasguy98]

What is American culture?

American culture has its oldest roots in the Western culture of Europe, namely Great Britian. Of course it became an identifyable culture at the beginning of the 18th century.
It starts with language.
Morals, in the Judeo Christian sense are extremely important.
Rule by the word of law.
A sense of the power of the individual. This is one of the big things that make us differnent from our European cousins.
Manners, respect, dignity in the Western tradition are all parts of our culture.

Did you want me to go into specifics or a general idea?

Are you implying that there is not/was not an identifyable American culture?

 

[DC Vol]

American culture has its oldest roots in the Western culture of Europe, namely Great Britian. Of course it became an identifyable culture at the beginning of the 18th century.
It starts with language.
Morals, in the Judeo Christian sense are extremely important.
Rule by the word of law.
A sense of the power of the individual. This is one of the big things that make us differnent from our European cousins.
Manners, respect, dignity in the Western tradition are all parts of our culture.

Did you want me to go into specifics or a general idea?

Are you implying that there is not/was not an identifyable American culture?

Seeing ourselves as culturally exclusive is arrogant and is against what we're supposed to stand for. The more we can mix cultures with immigrants the better this nation will be.

What happened to being the bastion of hope for the world?
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

Language, on the other hand, has a practical need to be singular.


Also, I agree with you and see dignity and respect as faded ideals. I agree they used to be pillars of our culture, but their deaths were not because of the influx of asian, hispanic and eastern european immigrants.

 

[KB5252]

Seeing ourselves as culturally exclusive is arrogant and is against what we're supposed to stand for. The more we can mix cultures with immigrants the better this nation will be.

What happened to being the bastion of hope for the world:
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

Language, on the other hand, has a practical need to be singular.

I don't disagree with you here. One of the biggest problems we have is in many cases the people coming in are transient and many have no desire to learn our culture much less begin to mesh with it.

 

[lawgator1]

I get your point, although I think it is important that the social engineers understand that they do not have a mandate to remake us in the image of France, something that many of my overeducated neighbors would probably argue my ears off over. Proposition 8 was a good start. This vote could just be another brick in the wall. And I say that as someone who is not opposed to gay marriage and is already on record re: English Only/First in this thread.

Right, and your first reaction you said was that you thought it was basically a bunch of nonsense. Seemed to me -- and I am not criticizing -- that you were saying you ended up caring about it primarily because the people who opposed the measure appeared to you to be the general political enemy.

Again, not to put words in your mouth, but if it weren't for the associational aspect of the thing, would you really give a rat's petoot about the vote on it? It seems like you are saying you would not, or at least far less than you do because you dislike the general poltiical leanings of those on the other side.

This is part of what's wrong with American politics, IMO. If you are "liberal" on one issue, you are assumed by those on the opposite side to hold the views of those they would put you with. You end up backing issues you do not really care about because you are supposed to pick sides, it seems, with your "friends."

 

[DC Vol]

I don't disagree with you here. One of the biggest problems we have is in many cases the people coming in are transient and many have no desire to learn our culture much less begin to mesh with it.

Then, as citizens, that's their right.

On that point, I had quite a few neighbors from a huge array of different cultures and I'll say this:
Generally the ones that immigrated were far more tolerable (unless you can't stand curry) than many of the ones I had that were US born and raised.

 

[DC Vol]

Right, and your first reaction you said was that you thought it was basically a bunch of nonsense. Seemed to me -- and I am not criticizing -- that you were saying you ended up caring about it primarily because the people who opposed the measure appeared to you to be the general political enemy.

Again, not to put words in your mouth, but if it weren't for the associational aspect of the thing, would you really give a rat's petoot about the vote on it? It seems like you are saying you would not, or at least far less than you do because you dislike the general poltiical leanings of those on the other side.

This is part of what's wrong with American politics, IMO. If you are "liberal" on one issue, you are assumed by those on the opposite side to hold the views of those they would put you with. You end up backing issues you do not really care about because you are supposed to pick sides, it seems, with your "friends."

I agree, far beyond 100%, with this. Combine that with people that hold a vote but not a backbone, and that's a recipe for disaster.

 

[gasguy98]

Seeing ourselves as culturally exclusive is arrogant and is against what we're supposed to stand for. The more we can mix cultures with immigrants the better this nation will be.

What happened to being the bastion of hope for the world?
"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

Language, on the other hand, has a practical need to be singular.


Also, I agree with you and see dignity and respect as faded ideals. I agree they used to be pillars of our culture, but their deaths were not because of the influx of asian, hispanic and eastern european immigrants.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion but I believe culture is an important part of Nationhood. If we go by your idea there will essentially be no culture at all, simply a "shopping mall" of various peoples loyal to their individual ethnic/cultural identity and not to the American experience.
I want my country to be unique. We can have immigrants from whereever and some of their native cultures can be retained but we MUST be one nation with a sense of shared experience.
I spent years studying ancient Europe and the ROman Republic/Empire. Their wonderful culture and civilization rotted from within. I see that happening to us now.

 

[KB5252]

Then, as citizens, that's their right.

On that point, I had quite a few neighbors from a huge array of different cultures and I'll say this:
Generally the ones that immigrated were far more tolerable (unless you can't stand curry) than many of the ones I had that were US born and raised.

The problem is the vast majority of those non English speaking immigrants is that they are not citizens and do not have that right.

I have no problem with those that come to America to better their lives, this is how we as a nation were founded. Those that come here legally, for the most part, choose to take part in out culture and add to it. Those that are not here legally, for the most part, have little desire to mesh with our culture.

 

[DC Vol]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion but I believe culture is an important part of Nationhood. If we go by your idea there will essentially be no culture at all, simply a "shopping mall" of various peoples loyal to their individual ethnic/cultural identity and not to the American experience.
I want my country to be unique. We can have immigrants from whereever and some of their native cultures can be retained but we MUST be one nation with a sense of shared experience.
I spent years studying ancient Europe and the ROman Republic/Empire. Their wonderful culture and civilization rotted from within. I see that happening to us now.

The simple matter of fact is going to be the population with a specific cultural background (Western Europe) is a dwindling minority. I'm not saying that's bad or good, but a simple fact. On that, coping with a ever increasingly small world (not literal size, but cultural expanse) with the US being the pinnacle of this is going to be very challenging while maintaing a singular "unique" identity.

The US is not supposed to be a shining example of Western European culture, but (idealistically) the best of the world. That's what this country is supposed to represent.

 

[DC Vol]

The problem is the vast majority of those non English speaking immigrants is that they are not citizens and do not have that right.

I have no problem with those that come to America to better their lives, this is how we as a nation were founded. Those that come here legally, for the most part, choose to take part in out culture and add to it. Those that are not here legally, for the most part, have little desire to mesh with our culture.

To me, that's a seperate issue entirely.

I wasn't, in the least, advocating illegal immigration. I was endorsing the mixing of cultural backgrounds, as that is simply the point of the US.

You do have a point though. I think it has more to do with the mentality of someone who would choose to do something the legal way vice the illegal way. That's mankind for you, though.

 

[gasguy98]

The simple matter of fact is going to be the population with a specific cultural background (Western Europe) is a dwindling minority. I'm not saying that's bad or good, but a simple fact. On that, coping with a ever increasingly small world (not literal size, but cultural expanse) with the US being the pinnacle of this is going to be very challenging while maintaing a singular "unique" identity.

The US is not supposed to be a shining example of Western European culture, but (idealistically) the best of the world. That's what this country is supposed to represent.

I never wrote that it was supposed to be anything except wholy AMERICAN. I wrote that our earliest roots were from Great Britian, obviously we formed our own brand and yes, it continues to evolve like everything else. I have nothing against a sensible amount of legal immigrants from various parts of the workd coming to our country and becoming American.

I disagree that we are supposed to be the "best of the world". I don't think multiculturalism has anything to do with what we are supposed to be or has anything to do with how great we are as a nation.

Are you suggesting that a homogenous population can not be a great prosperous notion?

Japan is homogenous and they seem to have a very high standard of living. But again, to me the ethnic make up has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

FREEDOM is what we are all about and is what made us so great. Freedom for the individual to pursue happiness and enjoy life and liberty.
Freedom, in my opinion, is protected by a strong identifyable culture and rule of law.

 

[lawgator1]

I agree, far beyond 100%, with this. Combine that with people that hold a vote but not a backbone, and that's a recipe for disaster.

Same with conservatives. I know many principled folks who oppose abortion but who also support revising tax policy to increase taxes on the wealthy. I know many people who support capital punishment, but who resist religion in the schools.

Point is, as people (hopefully) become better educated, the parties lose their ability to label us all, on either side. That's why I cringe when some fool on the distant left purports to spoeak for all Democrats. Similarly, it drives me nuts when people like joevol try to cast a sweeping net over all "liberals" and pretend that he can capture the perspective of all of us with a carefully selected quote.

Guys like Hannity have made a career doing exactly that and its disgraceful that so many people leap to the conclusion he would ask.

 

[DowntownVol]

This is part of what's wrong with American politics, IMO. If you are "liberal" on one issue, you are assumed by those on the opposite side to hold the views of those they would put you with. You end up backing issues you do not really care about because you are supposed to pick sides, it seems, with your "friends."

+1

 

[rockytophigh]

I say let's do what America does best. Let's take something from their culture and make it our own. I propose the siesta. However, the use of the word siesta will be limited to verbal speech only as all signs will be in English saying, "Closed for Nap...will reopen at 4:30."

....and you think I won't be president one day.......sheesh

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Right, and your first reaction you said was that you thought it was basically a bunch of nonsense. Seemed to me -- and I am not criticizing -- that you were saying you ended up caring about it primarily because the people who opposed the measure appeared to you to be the general political enemy.

Again, not to put words in your mouth, but if it weren't for the associational aspect of the thing, would you really give a rat's petoot about the vote on it? It seems like you are saying you would not, or at least far less than you do because you dislike the general poltiical leanings of those on the other side.

This is part of what's wrong with American politics, IMO. If you are "liberal" on one issue, you are assumed by those on the opposite side to hold the views of those they would put you with. You end up backing issues you do not really care about because you are supposed to pick sides, it seems, with your "friends."

I think you are correct. If I vote for the measure, it will be because of my desire to deflate the spirits of the people who want to take away my guns, tell me what to eat, drink and think, and generally tax the piss out of me as opposed to me thinking that the referendum has any real merit.

 

[allvol123]

Knowing Nashville, even just a little bit, I'd be pretty stunned if it didn't pass.

Imagine that, LG was wrong.

The Associated Press: Nashville voters reject 'English First' proposal