National Championship

#227
#227
BowlBrother85 said:
If you look further at Wooden's UCLA career, you will see that there was nothing special in his first 13 years from 1948-1961. They weren't bad but they only made the NCAA tournament 3 times and they never made a regional final. Cal-Berkeley (coached by Pete Newell) was their biggest rival in the 50's and Newell pretty much owned Wooden and UCLA.

Things sure did pick up in the early 60's for UCLA but that had much more to do with the influence of UCLA booster and well known sugar daddy Sam Gilbert than it did with any improvement in Wooden's coaching or recruiting. You can always fall back on the 'everybody cheats' excuse but what Sam Gilbert did for the UCLA basketball players during their great run was excessive by any standard. I don't think Wooden had a part in the lavish extra benefits but there is no doubt his head was buried in the sand. UCLA eventually did go on probation over Gilbert but the NCAA chose to wait until Wooden had retired to do anything. Wooden's successor, Gene Bartow, left UCLA for UAB (a start up program) because he had tried disassociating Gilbert from the program and realized that only the NCAA could do that. Bartow admitted in a letter to David Berst (an NCAA enforcement official) that he was afraid of Gilbert and thanked him for 'saving his life' for not launching an inquiry into Gilbert's involvement with UCLA until he had time to find another job.

The long and short of it all: The Wooden era should have an asterisk by it. No athletic program has trampled the rule book they way they did.
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Well said. The reverence given to Wooden even today is mystifying.
 
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#229
#229
I would have loved to see Wisconsin win it--and Bo Ryan win his first title as a coach--but they just didn't play very well IMO. Didn't look like the same team that played Kentucky. Maybe they were still spent from the Kentucky game--very real issue with basketball--or maybe Duke had psychological advantage from beating Wisconsin at Wisconsin early in the season--that certainly has to help. But Wisconsin did not play with as much confidence and poise as they've played most of the year.
 
#231
#231
Unimane said:
No, it wasn't. The Badgers were blatantly getting screwed and the game started getting called very differently once UW went up 9. Ryan was spot on with his comments about the ref, but I wish he left it there and not thrown out the "rent a player" line. No way Ryan turns down an Okafor from Chicago, if he wanted to go to Madison.

Otherwise, I wish all these media types complaining about the whining of Ryan would do the same when Coach K does a halftime interview and does the same thing with a passive-aggressive whine about the fouls.
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Which of the fouls when Wisc was up 9 do you think were bogus?

Here's what was different - Duke guards started taking it to the hole and getting fouled in the act of shooting (happened 2 or 3 times in that run). The other foul I recall was when the Duke player made a defensive play on the ball and the Wisc guy clearly held him as the Duke guy went after the ball.

I would say there is a difference between a passing half time comment and a theme post game. I know it was heat of the moment but it certainly seemed like excuse making.
 
#232
#232
n_huffhines said:
I have a weird love/hate relationship with K. He's the best, but I kinda hate K as an Xs and Os guy. I think he has 5 championships because he's had the best players for the last 30 years. That all goes to his credit as a recruiter and program builder, but I can't stand his in-game coaching. He just lets his guys out-talent you.
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I disagree across the board. He's a great x's and o's guy, particularly on defense. His last 3 minutes of the first half was great coaching last night. He definitely out coached Ryan last night and I don't think there's any doubt. Wisc had a more talented team that was more of a team.

I'd say Kansas and UNC have consistently had better players than Duke - particularly Roy Williams versions of both teams. If you think Coach K isn't a good x/o guy then you must think Williams sucks.
 
#233
#233
Lawrence Wright said:
Lance Thomas and Nolan Smith are perennial NBA All-Stars.
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Exactly. This 2015 team and the 2001 team were rich in NBA talent. The 91,92, and 2010 teams were very good college teams, with great college basketball players, but not overloaded with NBA talent. Grant Hill and Laettner were the only all stars.
 
#235
#235
volinbham said:
I disagree across the board. He's a great x's and o's guy, particularly on defense. His last 3 minutes of the first half was great coaching last night. He definitely out coached Ryan last night and I don't think there's any doubt. Wisc had a more talented team that was more of a team.

I'd say Kansas and UNC have consistently had better players than Duke - particularly Roy Williams versions of both teams. If you think Coach K isn't a good x/o guy then you must think Williams sucks.
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I don't know, man. His teams take terrible shots consistently. They probably took as many 18-footers as 3-pointers, last night. He does stupid things like putting in all scorers. The epitome was when he coached USA and we almost lost to Lithuania because they killed us on the glass, meanwhile all of our bigs combined for like 18 minutes, or something.
 
#236
#236
n_huffhines said:
I don't know, man. His teams take terrible shots consistently. They probably took as many 18-footers as 3-pointers, last night. He does stupid things like putting in all scorers. The epitome was when he coached USA and we almost lost to Lithuania because they killed us on the glass, meanwhile all of our bigs combined for like 18 minutes, or something.
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You don't win at the rate he does unless you can coach too.
 
#237
#237
volfanhill said:
You don't win at the rate he does unless you can coach too.
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I'm sure he can coach some. I even think he is a pretty damn good defensive coach. I'm just saying overall, he's not the best coach because of Xs and Os. He's definitely got some coaching ability, but it's not what sets him apart. His talent is what sets him apart. Put enough good teams out there and you'll have some teams that didn't win that should have, and you'll maybe even have a couple that shouldn't have and do. That's what happens when you have 30 years of revolving door All-Americans.
 
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#238
#238
n_huffhines said:
I'm sure he can coach some. I even think he is a pretty damn good defensive coach. I'm just saying overall, he's not the best coach because of Xs and Os. He's definitely got some coaching ability, but it's not what sets him apart. His talent is what sets him apart. Put enough good teams out there and you'll have some teams that didn't win that should have, and you'll maybe even have a couple that shouldn't have and do. That's what happens when you have 30 years of revolving door All-Americans.
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Who in your opinion is the best active men's CBB today?
 
#240
#240
Lawrence Wright said:
You throw out Nolan Smith's name like he's pushing Westbrook, Harden and Curry for MVP.

Nolan Smith was a serviceable, above average point guard. Nothing more, nothing less.
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He actually is the best player in the league. That league is in Croatia though.

Edit: he's not playing there anymore
 
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#241
#241
n_huffhines said:
I'm sure he can coach some. I even think he is a pretty damn good defensive coach. I'm just saying overall, he's not the best coach because of Xs and Os. He's definitely got some coaching ability, but it's not what sets him apart. His talent is what sets him apart. Put enough good teams out there and you'll have some teams that didn't win that should have, and you'll maybe even have a couple that shouldn't have and do. That's what happens when you have 30 years of revolving door All-Americans.
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You realize there's more to coaching than recruiting talent and X's and O's? The reason K excels is his ability to mold guys into being the best they can possibly be while realizing they are a part of something special that is bigger than themselves. It doesn't always work, but K's resume speaks for itself. I would love to read who you think is better.
 
#242
#242
RDU VOL#14 said:
You realize there's more to coaching than recruiting talent and X's and O's? The reason K excels is his ability to mold guys into being the best they can possibly be while realizing they are a part of something special that is bigger than themselves. It doesn't always work, but K's resume speaks for itself. I would love to read who you think is better.
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Oh crap! Now he will actually have to put some thought into what he has said and come up with someone better. Don't think he will.
 
#243
#243
Lawrence Wright said:
You throw out Nolan Smith's name like he's pushing Westbrook, Harden and Curry for MVP.

Nolan Smith was a serviceable, above average point guard. Nothing more, nothing less.
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WTF.

First of all, I didn't compare him to anyone. The guy said Scheyer was running point. Nolan Smith was.

Second, I've never heard of a guy who averaged 20 and 5 in the ACC referred to as serviceable.
 
#244
#244
RDU VOL#14 said:
You realize there's more to coaching than recruiting talent and X's and O's? The reason K excels is his ability to mold guys into being the best they can possibly be while realizing they are a part of something special that is bigger than themselves. It doesn't always work, but K's resume speaks for itself. I would love to read who you think is better.
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This is all completely subjective. We can talk about him molding guys (your opinion) or we can talk about him getting the best players on NSD, but we can't prove he does more or less with his guys than the other elite coaches would. It's kind of a useless debate.
 
#247
#247
volfanbill said:
K has completely owned Izzo
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Yeah, but he's also had better players than K. Izzo had no business being in the final 4 with a 7 seed, but that's what he does. Most NCAA tourney wins as the lower seed, ever.

I'm not saying K's had the better players every time, but they've only played 8 times. Since the argument is about what they would do with the other guy's players, head to head record is kind of a moot point.
 
#248
#248
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, but he's also had better players than K. Izzo had no business being in the final 4 with a 7 seed, but that's what he does. Most NCAA tourney wins as the lower seed, ever.

I'm not saying K's had the better players every time, but they've only played 8 times. Since the argument is about what they would do with the other guy's players, head to head record is kind of a moot point.[/QU

Are you serious with all of this? K is the better coach by far. How can you even try to say head to head is moot. Even if you are focused solely on talent. Izzo gets great talent as well and if he is better than K he would surely have fared better. I will say that Izzo would be second best though and I like him a lot.
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#249
#249
Dragon18 said:
Are you serious with all of this? K is the better coach by far. How can you even try to say head to head is moot. Even if you are focused solely on talent. Izzo gets great talent as well and if he is better than K he would surely have fared better. I will say that Izzo would be second best though and I like him a lot.
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There is no comparison. Duke has had 48 McDonald's All Americans since 1990. Michigan St has had 12.

McDonald's All-Americans by College - StatSheet.com
 
#250
#250
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