New York City

#2,902
#2,902
NashVol11 said:
I don't think I disagree with this. If you start yelling in people's faces you've helped create a risk of someone else reacting (or overreacting) to that.

My issue is more with the characterization of him as a "hero" for attacking a mentally ill guy who didn't have a weapon and who (someone correct me if I'm wrong) didn't physically assault or even push anyone else, as if that same guy with no weapon would have somehow killed an entire subway car full of people if not for Penny. It's culture war tabloid BS to me. There's no indication anyone was in actual danger
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You don’t have to meet a threat with equal force. If you threaten someone they don’t have to assume you’re not trying to kill or injure them. It’s a sad situation but people shouldn’t have to deal with this s***. Just about anywhere else and this wouldn’t have even went to trial.
 
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#2,903
#2,903
NashVol11 said:
I don't think I disagree with this. If you start yelling in people's faces you've helped create a risk of someone else reacting (or overreacting) to that.

My issue is more with the characterization of him as a "hero" for attacking a mentally ill guy who didn't have a weapon and who (someone correct me if I'm wrong) didn't physically assault or even push anyone else, as if that same guy with no weapon would have somehow killed an entire subway car full of people if not for Penny. It's culture war tabloid BS to me. There's no indication anyone was in actual danger
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How did anyone at the time know that he didn't have a weapon? If you are threatening me in an enclosed space that I can't remove myself from, I don't think I plan on gambling with what he is saying.
 
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#2,904
#2,904
NashVol11 said:
I don't think I disagree with this. If you start yelling in people's faces you've helped create a risk of someone else reacting (or overreacting) to that.

My issue is more with the characterization of him as a "hero" for attacking a mentally ill guy who didn't have a weapon and who (someone correct me if I'm wrong) didn't physically assault or even push anyone else, as if that same guy with no weapon would have somehow killed an entire subway car full of people if not for Penny. It's culture war tabloid BS to me. There's no indication anyone was in actual danger
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I don't really think most people would have thought about him as a hero if he hadn't been charged. Like if people just read the story that he stepped up, and the homeless guy later died they would just think "good thing he stepped up" and that would be the end of it. Him going to jail and being a victim of political attacks endeers him a lot to a lot more people than just the acts.
 
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#2,905
#2,905
Vol8188 said:
No one said it does, but when you put yourself into a situation where you’re now giving others the right to use force against you, you are the one creating that risk to yourself.

If someone got in a women’s face and threatened to sexually assault her, she pushes them down, they hit their head and die. No one defending her would be doing so because they believed the other person should have been “killed over speech”.

But what we are saying is your actions can put you at risk and that’s what occurred here
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People who don't want an innocent to act in an escalated situation until violence is attempted against them have never experienced how quickly that violence takes your choices away. In other words, if you wait for someone who's threatening you to actually follow up on it, they almost always get the best of you. Your reflexes are never as good as their first move.

If someone is threatening you, and they're close enough to actually do it (especially if one is trying to retreat and they are closing the gap you're trying to create, or if you have no retreat) then you act first. And that doesn't make you the bad guy.
 
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#2,906
#2,906
NashVol11 said:
I agree from a physical perspective regarding helping someone in danger. I don't think these people were in actual danger. I start being skeptical when it extends to "physically attacking people because someone is terrified" given how many people are disproportionately terrified of homeless people, Black people, mentally ill people etc. who don't pose an actual threat to them.

Also somewhat of a stretch to interpret a scared look on someone’s face as “please physically intervene” and there are things you can do before putting them in a chokehold
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It is really, really easy to sit in your recliner and say, "I don't think any of them were in danger". Yes?

Are those homeless, black and mentally ill people locked on a subway with you, you having no escape, escalating, getting in peoples' faces, and screaming that they're going to kill everyone? It's almost mind-numbing that you would apply "who don't pose and actual threat" to this situation. Talk about the mother of all false equivalencies. He was LITERALLY threatening people.
 
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#2,907
#2,907
Orangeslice13 said:
I’m not in the “he’s a hero” camp. But…..if my wife is on that train and he yells in her face (as several reports say he did to people on the train) and he’s yelling about killing someone at random (which many reports say he did) then I’m likely grabbing him. Again it would be if he was an immediate threat to her. I don’t think it’s as simple as people being overly sensitive here. I’d put this in the same category as yelling fire in a crowded theater. There are things you just can’t do in public.
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Something as simple as a box cutter or screwdriver is easily hidden, and absolutely deadly. If he was truly screaming "in their faces", he was close enough to follow up on his threats, and there would be almost nothing the victim could do about it--again. It's simple reflex times. It takes moments for the eyes to see the movement. More for the brain to process what the movement is. More to tell your motor functions to get moving...

It's literally the same concept as tailgating while driving. If you teach your kids not to tailgate, also teach them not to let some stranger stand there yelling in their faces that they are going to kill them. I they're doing that, and you try to create safety space, and they don;t respect that... Or if they are doing it, and there is no escape. You hurt them before they can hurt you.
 
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#2,917
#2,917
Majors said:
Had he been white, it wouldn’t have been on the news to create the division for those who thrive off it.

View attachment 704715
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I agree, people would probably be able to just say Penny went too far rather than the New York Post and right wing tabloids painting him as some victimized hero or talking about “the biggest travesty in history”
 
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#2,920
#2,920
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#2,925
#2,925
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
We all know too many mentally ill people are out there walking the streets. Neely's father was asking & saying "we need to do something about this". So now,
They'll end up burning the city down bc they will think that's justice for them.
.
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Just in time for the holidays. Who needs a tv deal.
 
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