New York City

#176
#176
NCFisher said:
But people will never stop committing acts of violence regardless of circumstances.
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I'm not naive enough to think that. I simply am stating that if you reduce the number of single mothers, you reduce the number of criminals... and thus reduce the need for police.

It really isn't that hard to understand or comprehend.
 
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#177
#177
NCFisher said:
The primary reason for government to exist at all is to keep us from killing each other in dispute. If they cannot do that there is no basis for government to exist. That is done through laws and enforcement of them. When that enforcement is not judiciously and uniformly exercised, then you have societal breakdown and government is invalid.
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That is not the primary reason for govt to exist. They are not there to protect us from ourselves.
 
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#178
#178
NCFisher said:
Law enforcement can and has had a demonstrable role in reducing crime. An absence of law-enforcement has a demonstrable role in the increase in crime. I’m not seeing a debatable point here.
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And again I say, you can put a million cops on the streets if you had the reosuces to do that in a city. That still wouldn't do much to reduce crime.
 
#179
#179
BreatheUT said:
@Rasputin_Vol I'm going to have to agree with @NCFisher here. I think your point about "If people stopped committing acts of violence" is a good one but that just isn't going to happen on it's own as Fisher noted so it more idealism than realism.
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My goodness... I'm not saying a 100% reduction or expecting a perfect world, guys. Damn... I am a realist.
 
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#180
#180
Rasputin_Vol said:
I disagree. If people stopped committing acts of violence, you wouldn't need near as many police. Everyone knows that single mothers are criminal baby factories. If you minimize the number of single mothers and do not sanction that type of activity, you will solve a large number of problems.
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Nobody wants to hear prevention methods.
Just like decriminalizing drugs. And people shoot themselves because of guns and not mental health issues that could be identified and treated.



But I digress
 
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#181
#181
BreatheUT said:
This is really unbelievable that it just doesn't seem real but we know it is. At some point people are going to start forming militias to end this if the local and state governments can't. This is why we are starting to see rising tensions where psychopaths like Reinoehl and Antifa are attempting to spark. The rest of the people are mindless zombies.

BLM and Antifa are loosely defined militias with additional side idiots and opportunists.
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They are too dumb to realize that all this does is prevent otherwise likely liberal voters from wanting to vote for this, and actually helps Trump
 
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#183
#183
#184
#184
Rasputin_Vol said:
And again I say, you can put a million cops on the streets if you had the reosuces to do that in a city. That still wouldn't do much to reduce crime.
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Well, that erases the notion that we might be having a semantic argument. The NYPD has 36,000 officers. The notion that 1 million officers would have no impact on crime defies empirical evidence. Overstating an argument undercuts it.

No one argues that single motherhood, especially on the black community, is a contributing factor to the rate of offenders. So-called progressive policies of the 1960s onward in which black women are paid to marry the government rather than the father of their children appears to be the underlying causation. We cannot exclaim that until the underlying causes of the high incidence of black offenders is cured, that we must accept the rates of black violence, or any rate of violence. The entirety of the past three months is testament that violence will escalate in the absence of, or the hamstringing of law-enforcement.
 
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#185
#185
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is not the primary reason for govt to exist. They are not there to protect us from ourselves.
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Then what is their purpose if not to proscribe the settlement of disputes or interactions between us? There is no fantasy libertarian world in which we magically get along and dispute is justly settled via protection rackets of private groups.

Governments core responsibility is the recognition and protection of the rights, persons, and property of its citizens with equality under the law. I don’t get to put a bullet in your head because you keep moving your fence line and encroaching on my property, nor do you get to put a bullet in my head because you want my property.
 
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#186
#186
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not naive enough to think that. I simply am stating that if you reduce the number of single mothers, you reduce the number of criminals... and thus reduce the need for police.

It really isn't that hard to understand or comprehend.
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No one disagrees with that, but rather the overstatement that law-enforcement does not reduce crime. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it’s both. We don’t accept violent crime rates as an interminable fact of life simply because we lack a magic pill to cure black fatherlessness.
 
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#187
#187
NCFisher said:
Well, that erases the notion that we might be having a semantic argument. The NYPD has 36,000 officers. The notion that 1 million officers would have no impact on crime defies empirical evidence. Overstating an argument undercuts it.

No one argues that single motherhood, especially on the black community, is a contributing factor to the rate of offenders. So-called progressive policies of the 1960s onward in which black women are paid to marry the government rather than the father of their children appears to be the underlying causation. We cannot exclaim that until the underlying causes of the high incidence of black offenders is cured, that we must accept the rates of black violence, or any rate of violence. The entirety of the past three months is testament that violence will escalate in the absence of, or the hamstringing of law-enforcement.
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And it doesn’t matter how many police are there to catch the criminal, if the courts and prisons don’t properly punish the criminal the apprehension is useless
 
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#188
#188
NCFisher said:
No one disagrees with that, but rather the overstatement that law-enforcement does not reduce crime. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it’s both. We don’t accept violent crime rates as an interminable of life simply because we lack a magic pill to cure black fatherlessness.
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You have the magic pill to fix it. Stop incentivizing women to have children without fathers. Its really that simple.
 
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#190
#190
Wireless1 said:
And it doesn’t matter how many police are there to catch the criminal, if the courts and prisons don’t properly punish the criminal the apprehension is useless
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That is true and I noted that in a prior reply. referring to police being supported.
 
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#192
#192
Rasputin_Vol said:
You have the magic pill to fix it. Stop incentivizing women to have children without fathers. Its really that simple.
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Do you know that murder offender rates among black Americans are half what they were in 1980, even as illegitimacy has soared? In fact murder rates across all races and ethnicities has dramatically decreased even as illegitimacy has substantially increased across all groups.

Again it is not an either or question; law-enforcement and a functional judicial system are critical to controlling violent crime irrespective of other factors such as illegitimacy, a broken welfare system, and economic opportunity and job creation.
 
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#193
#193
NCFisher said:
Do you know that murder offender rates among black Americans are half what they were in 1980, even as illegitimacy has soared? In fact murder rates across all races and ethnicities has dramatically decreased even as illegitimacy has substantially increased across all groups.
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Chicago

NCFisher said:
Again it is not an either or question; law-enforcement and a functional judicial system are critical to controlling violent crime irrespective of other factors such as illegitimacy, a broken welfare system, and economic opportunity and job creation.
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It is far cheaper and more of a direct fix to end the current system. You save money on the front end and money on the back end once they turn 18 years old and are housed in prisons.

And BTW, this isn't just a black issue anymore. All of those white kids out in these streets marching... how many of them had a father in the home?
 
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