Next Year Compared to This Year

[sjt18]

We'll have you STANDING ON THAT WALL calling for Butch's head if he loses to Bama
Posted via VolNation Mobile

No. You won't. But thanks for exaggerating again... the need to do that proves you can't really answer my REAL points.

 

[Lexvol]

I'm not negative about "everything". I am negative about things... that are negative. You don't have to read the truth. Feel free to ignore poor coaching. Stick you head in the sand til you suffocate.

I have NOT pronounced a final condemnation on this staff. I have not even said the "can't" coach. I have simply said the did not do a good job this year... and they didn't. AND I have said they need to coach better to survive... which they do.

I agree 100%.

I'm optimistic about one thing. We have more "can't miss" recruits in the class than any in recent memory. Legacies have a little to do with that, but it isn't all about them.

This team should pass the eye test next year. Could be a 7 win season with a few good bounces.

I think the talk of the OL and DL is overrated.

I expect team 118 to play faster on both sides of the ball. I also expect some semblance of an offensive game plan and better spacing on O, accompanied by more toughness and speed on D.

 

[sjt18]

He's already off to a great start with our 2015 class. Will we be top 5? I don't know but top 10 would not surprise me in the least.

There are many here who are suggesting that it isn't important if they aren't great coaches because the recruiting is great. Top 5 or top 10 isn't good enough to make that work. They have to consistently be top 2 in the SEC to make that work... to the extent it could ever work.

The simple fact is that they need to produce some evidence on the field that validates the trust these recruits are putting in them. The sooner that happens, the sooner they have the credibility needed to keep this level of recruiting up.

Many people don't seem to understand but there isn't a UGA or LSU level for UT where they can tolerate mediocre coaching and still get great recruits. There are great HS football players in LA and GA that are going to those home state schools regardless of whether the coach is any good or not. They'll have a base of great homers every year to build on. UT simply doesn't have that and isn't likely to any time soon. UT must win to become and remain "the place" out of state recruits want to go.

 

[sjt18]

I agree 100%.

I'm optimistic about one thing. We have more "can't miss" recruits in the class than any in recent memory. Legacies have a little to do with that, but it isn't all about them.

The recruiting has been extraordinary. It really has. He is selling a dream and selling it well. The recruiting effort this year is as good as I have seen from anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I'm sure someone here will find a way to say this was a "negative" comment.

This team should pass the eye test next year. Could be a 7 win season with a few good bounces.

The coaching has to improve. The development between now and next August has to be elite. That's all I am saying. The same level of coaching gets them 4 or 5 wins next fall.

I think the talk of the OL and DL is overrated.

There's going to be a deficit of experience and it is a very important factor.

I expect team 118 to play faster on both sides of the ball. I also expect some semblance of an offensive game plan and better spacing on O, accompanied by more toughness and speed on D.

I'll bite. Tell me why you think that. I honestly don't see that happening without better coaching and player development than what we saw this year.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

Dooley's failures however do not excuse Jones' failures. Dooley is not the bar you or I or any other UT fan should accept. The bar should be championships. That's what Jones has said from the beginning... and we should hold him accountable for what he says.

He is the one who continually talks about players playing a championship level. Well I for one want to see coaches coaching at a championship level as well. We just didn't see that this year.

See that's the thing. The bar SHOULD be championships, but we'll never get there if we fire coaches every three years. Unless Butch goes 5-7 or worse every year he's here he does not need to be fired. We all want to see championships, but you have to be realistic, it's not happening any time soon. And it will never happen unless Butch has time to build the program back up and recruit his style of players for more than two classes.

 

[Lexvol]

The recruiting has been extraordinary. It really has. He is selling a dream and selling it well. The recruiting effort this year is as good as I have seen from anyone, anywhere, anytime.

I'm sure someone here will find a way to say this was a "negative" comment.

The coaching has to improve. The development between now and next August has to be elite. That's all I am saying. The same level of coaching gets them 4 or 5 wins next fall.

There's going to be a deficit of experience and it is a very important factor.



I'll bite. Tell me why you think that. I honestly don't see that happening without better coaching and player development than what we saw this year.

Familiarity. I was especially underwhelmed by how the offense looked. It looked nothing like what I saw from the more experienced Cinci teams that Butch coached.

I'm not making any guarantees…because I have several of the same reservations that you express. There is simply something to be said for year two in the same system. By system I mean something that is all encompassing…from the weight room to diet to practice habits.

There is historic precedent for Jones' teams looking much better in year two. If not, wholesale changes in the coaching staff should be considered.

 

[sjt18]

My point is that no coach that is any good at all would ever leave a somewhat comfortable situation to come to UT if they're only going to get 3 seasons to turn around a train wreck in the toughest conference in the country.

That's why we're doomed to repeat this pattern of mediocrity.

Meyer left a Utah job where he was loved after Zook was fired from UF.

Saban left the NFL and took over Bama after a fair haired son was fired after only 4 seasons. They had a series of 3 to 4 year coaches between Bryant and Saban. Kelly left a good gig in Cincy to take over a tough situation at ND. Sumlin left a comfortable situation at Houston to take over for Sherman who was fired after 3 years.

Chizik was fired after 4 years even when he had a NC two years earlier... and hired a coach that probably has them back in the NC game again.


The thing that will doom a program to mediocrity is keeping coaches who aren't winning... and that is even more true of a school like UT that depends so heavily on image and out of state recruiting.

 

[sjt18]

See that's the thing. The bar SHOULD be championships, but we'll never get there if we fire coaches every three years.

IF those coaches are proving they can win then you are right. If they are doing what we saw this past season then you could not possibly be more wrong. They MUST make progress and prove they can coach. It doesn't take years to do that.

Unless Butch goes 5-7 or worse every year he's here he does not need to be fired.

If he wins anything less than 8 games in year 3 then he will probably need to be replaced. That would be true of any coach and not just Jones.

We all want to see championships, but you have to be realistic, it's not happening any time soon.

That's actually not realism. Great coaches build up and win in a hurry most of the time.

And it will never happen unless Butch has time to build the program back up and recruit his style of players for more than two classes.

That's not true either. Jones may or may not be the guy to win at UT. But either way... there is someone who can. If it is not Jones then all you do by giving him more time is delay the day you find the right coach.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Familiarity. I was especially underwhelmed by how the offense looked. It looked nothing like what I saw from the more experienced Cinci teams that Butch coached.

I'm not making any guarantees…because I have several of the same reservations that you express. There is simply something to be said for year two in the same system. By system I mean something that is all encompassing…from the weight room to diet to practice habits.

There is historic precedent for Jones' teams looking much better in year two. If not, wholesale changes in the coaching staff should be considered.

It's been a long time since I agreed with absolutely every sentence in a Volnation post.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

Meyer left a Utah job where he was loved after Zook was fired from UF.

Saban left the NFL and took over Bama after a fair haired son was fired after only 4 seasons. They had a series of 3 to 4 year coaches between Bryant and Saban. Kelly left a good gig in Cincy to take over a tough situation at ND. Sumlin left a comfortable situation at Houston to take over for Sherman who was fired after 3 years.

Chizik was fired after 4 years even when he had a NC two years earlier... and hired a coach that probably has them back in the NC game again.


The thing that will doom a program to mediocrity is keeping coaches who aren't winning... and that is even more true of a school like UT that depends so heavily on image and out of state recruiting.

So not having stability= Success?

 

[Rockytoptalker]

IF those coaches are proving they can win then you are right. If they are doing what we saw this past season then you could not possibly be more wrong. They MUST make progress and prove they can coach. It doesn't take years to do that.

If he wins anything less than 8 games in year 3 then he will probably need to be replaced. That would be true of any coach and not just Jones.

That's actually not realism. Great coaches build up and win in a hurry most of the time.

That's not true either. Jones may or may not be the guy to win at UT. But either way... there is someone who can. If it is not Jones then all you do by giving him more time is delay the day you find the right coach.

So say he wins 7 games in 2016, is that not enough? Are you just hoping that if we fire enough coaches we'll hit the jackpot one day? And the thing is, great coaches are hard to come by, especially the ones that build up programs as quickly as you say.

 

[Lexvol]

So not having stability= Success?

Keeping bad coaches=success?

Of course…one could also look at all the Dave Clawson threads circulating now….

I think everybody realizes that changes this year would be counterproductive. They also have expectation of dramatic improvement in execution next year. As well they should.

 

[sjt18]

So not having stability= Success?

Instability does not equal success. Stability does not equal success. Success equals success.

If Jones wins 8 plus in year 3 then MAYBE he has UT on the track to return to championship contention. If he's 3 years in and still struggling to make low level bowl games then it will be time to cut the losses and see what someone else can do with the talent he brought in.

Meyer won his first year at UF with players that were far from ideal for his system.

Jimbo Fisher is in the NC game in just his 4th year at FSU after taking over a pretty volatile situation. Remember, these are now players that Fisher brought in and developed.

The point is that championship coaches don't take a long time to prove that they have things headed in the right direction... and most of the time you can see it in year ONE.

 

[sjt18]

So say he wins 7 games in 2016, is that not enough?

No. It isn't. It isn't personal against Jones. It would not be enough for anyone. The NC game this year will be between two coaches who provide real world examples of why you are wrong. This is Fisher's 4th year. Malzahn is in his 1st year but was there for the building of the foundation of this year.

It took Fisher 4 years and Malzahn effectively the same to find and develop the players that put them in the NC game.

Are you just hoping that if we fire enough coaches we'll hit the jackpot one day?

Are you really that obtuse? You cannot keep losers, OK? Can I somehow make it clear enough for you to understand? If you want to win 5-8 games a year then you keep a coach that wins 5-8 games per year. If you want to win championships... then you do not tolerate mediocre coaches.

And hopefully it isn't a "gamble" to replace your coach. Hopefully you can go out and make an intelligent hire. If you can't... then maybe you look at the AD too.

And the thing is, great coaches are hard to come by, especially the ones that build up programs as quickly as you say.

So your answer is to accept mediocrity and not try to find the coach who can win at UT, right? That seems to be what you are saying.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

Could be right on...we drop APSU and WKU and pick up Utah St and Ark St. Both bowl teams this year. We loose Oregon but pick up Oklahoma away. Then we have the usual SEC east schedule. Florida at home has to be a win this year. We also loose Auburn but pick up Ole Miss there. Besides the Gators at home we also have Bama, Mizzou and Kentucky. UGA, SC and Vandy on road. Hard to picture five wins from that schedule.

Our schedule hates us.

 

[butchna]

Instability does not equal success. Stability does not equal success. Success equals success.

If Jones wins 8 plus in year 3 then MAYBE he has UT on the track to return to championship contention. If he's 3 years in and still struggling to make low level bowl games then it will be time to cut the losses and see what someone else can do with the talent he brought in.

Meyer won his first year at UF with players that were far from ideal for his system.

Jimbo Fisher is in the NC game in just his 4th year at FSU after taking over a pretty volatile situation. Remember, these are now players that Fisher brought in and developed.

The point is that championship coaches don't take a long time to prove that they have things headed in the right direction... and most of the time you can see it in year ONE.

Jimbo Fisher=4 years...how about let Butch coach A SECOND YEAR...I'll concur if his coaching doesn't show an effect it will be apparent...but you're in way too much of a rush per capita the avalanche of anticipatory failure diatribe you produce on this subject...you ain't going to sway anyone to your position by choking this board with words...but hey it's your fingers...(unless you're using Dragon)
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So say he wins 7 games in 2016, is that not enough? Are you just hoping that if we fire enough coaches we'll hit the jackpot one day? And the thing is, great coaches are hard to come by, especially the ones that build up programs as quickly as you say.

I think he is one of those people who believe you just hire and fire until you find the right one. I doubt 7 wins would be enough for someone like him. He really doesn't understand what has happened to Tennessee since 2008. He thinks all great coaches show immediate success.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I think I have it figured out.
Give Butch four years to succeed. You are allowed to have concerns, but have them quietly until year four.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I think I have it figured out.
Give Butch four years to succeed. You are allowed to have concerns, but have them quietly until year four.

I agree with you Doyle but apparently there are people on here that think if you don't show vast improvement after year 1 or 2 then you obviously don't have a good coach.

 

[butchna]

I think I have it figured out.
Give Butch four years to succeed. You are allowed to have concerns, but have them quietly until year four.

The majority of us have concerns about this past season....nothing's definite yay or nay concerning Butch...heck his esteemed recruiting class isn't even signed yet...what's a kick in the old sack is the downpour of WHY IT WAS A FAILURE from poster like SJT...he brings up good points but no one cares because it's so absolute and slanted. I haven't seen anything that's convinced me what the long term prognosis is...and this was set up early in the season by SJT...he started demanding a certain number of wins and performance goals....usually while defending Dooley's tenure...he might end up being right but it's ironic that a defender of our previous coach is suddenly a ONE AND OUT advocate....I, like many posters, gave our previous head coach time a reasonable amount of rope....most of three years...with the same amount of reason and patience I'm advocating here...to start looping it around BUTCH'S neck BEFORE HIS FIRST FULL SIGNING CLASS is asinine!...thank you for reading...please spay and neuter your pets k:

 

[tennezz]

I'm not negative about "everything". I am negative about things... that are negative. You don't have to read the truth. Feel free to ignore poor coaching. Stick you head in the sand til you suffocate.

I have NOT pronounced a final condemnation on this staff. I have not even said they "can't" coach. I have simply said the did not do a good job this year... and they didn't. AND I have said they need to coach better to survive... which they do.

I read all 400 of your posts on this thread and they all sound negative to me.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

BTW, Jones won't have the gift of a legacy class every year. He better take that good fortune and run with it....

 

[itouchedthe_bUTch]

Some on here seem to think Phil Jackson should be able to lead a peewee team to victory over the showtime lakers.

 

[itouchedthe_bUTch]

Coaches need good players to excel in the SEC. No top coach, for example Saban, les, urban, etc. could win in the SEC without talent. That's just not how it works. It's not all coaching a lot of it has to do with how good your players are.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

This is how I see the schedule playing out next year:

Utah State (Knoxville) Win
Arkansas St (Knoxville) Win
at Oklahoma (Norman, OK) Loss
at Georgia (Athens, Ga) Win
Florida (Knoxville) Win
Chattanooga (Knoxville) Win
at Ole Miss (Oxford, MS) Loss
Alabama (Knoxville) Loss
at South Carolina (Columbia, SC) Win
Kentucky (Knoxville) Win
Missouri (Knoxville) Toss up, but Win at home
at Vanderbilt (Nashville) Win

Finish 9-3. The Missouri game could be a loss to put us at 8-4 but we will have the home field.