NIL Collectives Join Forces

#52
#52
txbo said:
Just being real. A 10% cut on hundreds of millions of dollars has a way of changing motivations.
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They represent professional athletes, but that’s not relevant to college. Specifically, I believe they represent Scott Stallings, pro golfer from Knoxville. The Vol Club is geared toward UT, and I just don’t believe they are cutting deals for other colleges.
 
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#53
#53
VolGee4 said:
They represent professional athletes, but that’s not relevant to college. Specifically, I believe they represent Scott Stallings, pro golfer from Knoxville. The Vol Club is geared toward UT, and I just don’t believe they are cutting deals for other colleges.
Click to expand...
They keep 10% of the money donated to the collective for "overhead".
 
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#56
#56
VolGee4 said:
They represent professional athletes, but that’s not relevant to college. Specifically, I believe they represent Scott Stallings, pro golfer from Knoxville. The Vol Club is geared toward UT, and I just don’t believe they are cutting deals for other colleges.
Click to expand...
Speaking of professional sports, NFL agents are limited to 3% and NBA agents are limited to 4%.

These guys are taking 10% from college kids.
 
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#58
#58
txbo said:
Speaking of professional sports, NFL agents are limited to 3% and NBA agents are limited to 4%.

These guys are taking 10% from college kids.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, professional agents don’t set up and host podcasts, community events, and spend money to give “members” a benefit for donating to the club. It’s a totally different dynamic.
 
#59
#59
VolGee4 said:
Last time I checked, professional agents don’t set up podcasts, community events, and spend money to give “members” a benefit for donating to the club. It’s a totally different dynamic.
Click to expand...

LOL. It's a multi-million dollar industry.... and profits are good.

You really don't think professional sports agents set up those types of things and more?
 
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#60
#60
Why are you so angry, @txbo? I really don't understand your ire. Would you rather that CTV ask Spyre to give zero money to baseball? Should baseball turn down the renovation money too because it is polluted at the source as benefitting from NIL? Do you want all the players who earned NIL money to give it back? People always paid the best players. Now that we are at the top in baseball we would be recruiting against teams who pay under the table, even before NIL. And doesn't Spyre hold out the promise of assuaging or even overcoming the scholarship problem that people complain about, even though that results from something other than football or basketball and that cannot be touched. Would you rather that athletes become university employees? Because this is a workaround for that, in addition. If athletes can make money for their name, image, and likeness, someone is going to coordinate that, and it cannot be the AD or the baseball team by rule. Maybe some lucky few can make their own arrangements with a podcast or something, but that is not going to work at scale and our team would be left in the dust.

Are you on the warpath against all non-profits? Including or excluding churches, mosques, and temples? Because Spyre's overhead is amazing low compared to non-profits as a whole. In that case, it doesn't seem that one would focus their ire at this tiny segment of the non-profit business. I really don't understand. I'm not trying to start something. I can't figure it out.

I guess you're angry about sports agents? And you're just picking out for criticism from of all of them in the world our tiny NIL? Why don't you hammer LSU, Arky, Vandy, Wake for having NIL? Let 'em have it, bro. I am definitely not a fan of what CB's agent appears to have done (if that's at the root of it) (maybe he got bad advice, I don't know), but neither can you insist that players have no representation if they want to pay for it. Even if you wanted to, it's not legal. Or is that what you want? No agents.
 
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#61
#61
Just to add my opinion, Spyre is top notch and Tennessee is lucky to have them. But I state that separately from my bafflement at what is funding your upset. Because the latter is really strictly an effort to understand.
 
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#62
#62
txbo said:
LOL. It's a multi-million dollar industry.... and profits are good.

You really don't think professional sports agents set up those types of things and more?
Click to expand...

The 3 and 4% cap is with the league contracts. Agents set up other deals, but I doubt they are subject to those caps. They also don’t host podcasts with interviews and don’t spend money for fan events. Spyre has to provide something to the folks who support the athletes. They aren’t the same.

I will be done with the discussion- we can agree to disagree. If it weren’t for Spyre, some of these students couldn’t market themselves and make money.
 
#63
#63
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#65
#65
If this is the new standard.

11.7 needs to be gone. Partials need to be gone. Title XI needs to be gone. All the athletes at UT and their parents, should be off the hook. The money is stupid, ALL , Track, Rowng, Tennis, Golf, Soccer, etc…All. It’s the right thing to do. At one time I did the calculations, it would add a couple million, maybe 5, but compared to what they are making? We’re getting ready to drop 96 million dollars on LNS and they gonna sweat paying any player’s tuition books, room and board? Seriously?

All that said, How’s everybody doing?

GBO!!!
 
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#66
#66
Orange. said:
Why are you so angry, @txbo? I really don't understand your ire. Would you rather that CTV ask Spyre to give zero money to baseball? Should baseball turn down the renovation money too because it is polluted at the source as benefitting from NIL? Do you want all the players who earned NIL money to give it back? People always paid the best players. Now that we are at the top in baseball we would be recruiting against teams who pay under the table, even before NIL. And doesn't Spyre hold out the promise of assuaging or even overcoming the scholarship problem that people complain about, even though that results from something other than football or basketball and that cannot be touched. Would you rather that athletes become university employees? Because this is a workaround for that, in addition. If athletes can make money for their name, image, and likeness, someone is going to coordinate that, and it cannot be the AD or the baseball team by rule. Maybe some lucky few can make their own arrangements with a podcast or something, but that is not going to work at scale and our team would be left in the dust.

Are you on the warpath against all non-profits? Including or excluding churches, mosques, and temples? Because Spyre's overhead is amazing low compared to non-profits as a whole. In that case, it doesn't seem that one would focus their ire at this tiny segment of the non-profit business. I really don't understand. I'm not trying to start something. I can't figure it out.

I guess you're angry about sports agents? And you're just picking out for criticism from of all of them in the world our tiny NIL? Why don't you hammer LSU, Arky, Vandy, Wake for having NIL? Let 'em have it, bro. I am definitely not a fan of what CB's agent appears to have done (if that's at the root of it) (maybe he got bad advice, I don't know), but neither can you insist that players have no representation if they want to pay for it. Even if you wanted to, it's not legal. Or is that what you want? No agents.
Click to expand...
1) I'm not angry
2) Spyre is not a non-profit
3) Your entire post lacks reason
 
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#67
#67
Orange. said:
Just to add my opinion, Spyre is top notch and Tennessee is lucky to have them. But I state that separately from my bafflement at what is funding your upset. Because the latter is really strictly an effort to understand.
Click to expand...
LOL.! I'm not angry. I'm simply pointing out that collectives are a new industry that make a lot of money.
 
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#68
#68
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#69
#69
I will add that my problem with some of these organizations/firms is that they are making money off of players who could not make their own decisions. I have a problem with anyone or organization that makes money off of those who need help the most. It is personal for me because I believe they pressured players to sign an agreement using the two things that should never be used in a legit negotiation. Time and pressure from others. I do not use it in my church and have a problem with those who do. I also think they and most other NIL groups do good but I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad for MOST athletes. The ones who everyone will recognize make a lot of money, as they probably should, but when a school connects with an NIL firm it should also greatly benefit the ones who make sure the big names are successful who will not get anything. My son may have as many NIL deals as anyone on campus but he got most, if not all with the help of family and girlfriend, not Spyre or other groups. None of his are paying off his loans but just putting money and smaller items in his pocket which we are extremely grateful for. He also represents some very good businesses that he is proud to give props to and some incredible individuals who have blessed him, especially some on here that have never met us personally. That is why we do the podcast is to give back of our time and efforts to help you guys.
Spyre has set him up at the request of others with events but it was at the person's request not Spyre working on his behalf. I would love to see someone step in and set something up just for the players on all teams that are not getting the money. I wish I knew how to do this and I would jump all over it because the top names are useless without the others. Your QB is not going to effective without the linemen and the back-ups who they practice against every day. The same with baseball. The starting pitchers are only effective when the bullpen guys keep the score where it was when the starters came out. You get the point. We need a collective for the nobody's.
 
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#70
#70
preacherman20 said:
I will add that my problem with some of these organizations/firms is that they are making money off of players who could not make their own decisions. I have a problem with anyone or organization that makes money off of those who need help the most. It is personal for me because I believe they pressured players to sign an agreement using the two things that should never be used in a legit negotiation. Time and pressure from others. I do not use it in my church and have a problem with those who do. I also think they and most other NIL groups do good but I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad for MOST athletes. The ones who everyone will recognize make a lot of money, as they probably should, but when a school connects with an NIL firm it should also greatly benefit the ones who make sure the big names are successful who will not get anything. My son may have as many NIL deals as anyone on campus but he got most, if not all with the help of family and girlfriend, not Spyre or other groups. None of his are paying off his loans but just putting money and smaller items in his pocket which we are extremely grateful for. He also represents some very good businesses that he is proud to give props to and some incredible individuals who have blessed him, especially some on here that have never met us personally. That is why we do the podcast is to give back of our time and efforts to help you guys.
Spyre has set him up at the request of others with events but it was at the person's request not Spyre working on his behalf. I would love to see someone step in and set something up just for the players on all teams that are not getting the money. I wish I knew how to do this and I would jump all over it because the top names are useless without the others. Your QB is not going to effective without the linemen and the back-ups who they practice against every day. The same with baseball. The starting pitchers are only effective when the bullpen guys keep the score where it was when the starters came out. You get the point. We need a collective for the nobody's.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy your posts and always love watching Kirby pitch. I just want to put that out there first because I don’t want this to come across as negative. I am a UT grad, a UT fan. I’ve been to many football games, basketball games, and I went to the 2021 CWS. I support UT and all sports programs.

That said, when NIL was decided to be legal, then it turned into more of a professional model. The players that are the faces of the programs and play at the important positions are naturally going to get paid more. That’s what happens in pro ball too. That’s life unfortunately. You just can’t have it both ways.

I am a Christian, but I am also a professional. Business is business. I have done plenty of charity work, but I also have 4 kids to feed. I have to make money for my services. Spyre is a business relationship and provides a service. They have contacts and built their own relationships, and they get student-athletes in front of people. In turn, they help student-athletes make money. I believe I saw that 19 or 20 football players have now been signed up by Spyre for their event series. But for Spyre to collect fan “donations” and to put on an event series, some of these players wouldn’t be putting money in their pockets. We aren’t just talking about the starting QB either. There are players from multiple positions, and they sold autographs last year for an offensive lineman and a linebacker. They have a shop where they sell autographs, and they send an out emails to their members on a weekly basis. A business relationship is just that- I help you with my resources, and I make some money off of my service.

Jalin Hyatt last year was a great example. Once he broke out with 5 TD’s against Bama, I am willing to bet that it netted him 5 figures in NIL. Spyre sold his autograph and promoted him because they already had the resources to reach thousands of fans.

The players asked for this, and they got it. But other people making money to help them is part of the model. It’s business and capitalism, which I think most support. JMO.
 
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#71
#71
preacherman20 said:
I will add that my problem with some of these organizations/firms is that they are making money off of players who could not make their own decisions. I have a problem with anyone or organization that makes money off of those who need help the most. It is personal for me because I believe they pressured players to sign an agreement using the two things that should never be used in a legit negotiation. Time and pressure from others. I do not use it in my church and have a problem with those who do. I also think they and most other NIL groups do good but I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad for MOST athletes. The ones who everyone will recognize make a lot of money, as they probably should, but when a school connects with an NIL firm it should also greatly benefit the ones who make sure the big names are successful who will not get anything. My son may have as many NIL deals as anyone on campus but he got most, if not all with the help of family and girlfriend, not Spyre or other groups. None of his are paying off his loans but just putting money and smaller items in his pocket which we are extremely grateful for. He also represents some very good businesses that he is proud to give props to and some incredible individuals who have blessed him, especially some on here that have never met us personally. That is why we do the podcast is to give back of our time and efforts to help you guys.
Spyre has set him up at the request of others with events but it was at the person's request not Spyre working on his behalf. I would love to see someone step in and set something up just for the players on all teams that are not getting the money. I wish I knew how to do this and I would jump all over it because the top names are useless without the others. Your QB is not going to effective without the linemen and the back-ups who they practice against every day. The same with baseball. The starting pitchers are only effective when the bullpen guys keep the score where it was when the starters came out. You get the point. We need a collective for the nobody's.
Click to expand...
I'm all about helping the "nobodies". I'm not interested in enriching 18 year old QB1. I'm very interested in keeping bullpen reliever #2 from leaving school with a pile of F'ing debt.

If this collective association gets their way, I won't be able anymore to do the things I enjoy doing. They intend to lobby for licensing NIL collectives. That will make working directly with kids illegal. It's just pure greed.
 
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#72
#72
I understand. As a pastor, I have to negotiate spiritual decisions and as a senior pastor business decisions. There are things that make sense business wise that do not make sense spirtiual and vice versa. I do not have a problem with Spyre making some money but I do have a problem with the way they have done things, in baseball which is all I can speak to. They have not always done things that I would call the right way but maybe I see it differently. I really do not have a problem mostly with how they have treated Kirby because we began to negotiate his own deals with companies rather than using Spyre so that he got a larger cut and they got none along with anyone else. I just have a problem with a player only getting about 8% of profits of a shirt or cap that has their name on it. The shirt is being sold for $30 and the player gets about .80 on it because their deal is not for the sales price but the retail price of the shirt or cap. The player should get 50% of the profit, in my opinion, of the clothing bearing their names. I don't think most people understand that the player gets very little of the cut for the merchandise that they purchase. That is why you are seeing players negotiate their own deals and do business with other companies or sell their own merchandise. The problem is the school is connected to Spyre so the school has the rights to sell player merchandise through the Spyre deal and the player cannot do anything about it. I will withdraw from this conversation because I do not want it to look bad on Kirby or any other baseball players. I have had a conversation with Spyre because we had to work really hard to get Kirby's share and we agreed to see things differently. If they wanted to hear my view, I would be glad to share it. I'm sure they still have my number. If not, most people on here do. I just think something needs to be done for the nobodies. There is too much money, supposedly, being thrown around for the ones who need it not to get a cut. I really feel sorry for the players who have gotten pretty much nothing and actually played a key role in UT baseball and were/are loved by the fans.
 
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#73
#73
VolGee4 said:
I really enjoy your posts and always love watching Kirby pitch. I just want to put that out there first because I don’t want this to come across as negative. I am a UT grad, a UT fan. I’ve been to many football games, basketball games, and I went to the 2021 CWS. I support UT and all sports programs.

That said, when NIL was decided to be legal, then it turned into more of a professional model. The players that are the faces of the programs and play at the important positions are naturally going to get paid more. That’s what happens in pro ball too. That’s life unfortunately. You just can’t have it both ways.

I am a Christian, but I am also a professional. Business is business. I have done plenty of charity work, but I also have 4 kids to feed. I have to make money for my services. Spyre is a business relationship and provides a service. They have contacts and built their own relationships, and they get student-athletes in front of people. In turn, they help student-athletes make money. I believe I saw that 19 or 20 football players have now been signed up by Spyre for their event series. But for Spyre to collect fan “donations” and to put on an event series, some of these players wouldn’t be putting money in their pockets. We aren’t just talking about the starting QB either. There are players from multiple positions, and they sold autographs last year for an offensive lineman and a linebacker. They have a shop where they sell autographs, and they send an out emails to their members on a weekly basis. A business relationship is just that- I help you with my resources, and I make some money off of my service.

Jalin Hyatt last year was a great example. Once he broke out with 5 TD’s against Bama, I am willing to bet that it netted him 5 figures in NIL. Spyre sold his autograph and promoted him because they already had the resources to reach thousands of fans.

The players asked for this, and they got it. But other people making money to help them is part of the model. It’s business and capitalism, which I think most support. JMO.
Click to expand...

From the article in the OP....

TCA also hopes to work toward having a verification process and registry of agents who are allowed to work with athletes. Currently, anyone can present themselves as an agent of a college athlete, unlike the NFL where agents must be registered with the NFL Players Association.

The association intend to lobby states for liciensing agents. Limiting competition and ultimately preventing people from working directly with kids. Collectives will get a cut of everything and that I have a problem with.
 
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#74
#74
preacherman20 said:
I understand. As a pastor, I have to negotiate spiritual decisions and as a senior pastor business decisions. There are things that make sense business wise that do not make sense spirtiual and vice versa. I do not have a problem with Spyre making some money but I do have a problem with the way they have done things, in baseball which is all I can speak to. They have not always done things that I would call the right way but maybe I see it differently. I really do not have a problem mostly with how they have treated Kirby because we began to negotiate his own deals with companies rather than using Spyre so that he got a larger cut and they got none along with anyone else. I just have a problem with a player only getting about 8% of profits of a shirt or cap that has their name on it. The shirt is being sold for $30 and the player gets about .80 on it because their deal is not for the sales price but the retail price of the shirt or cap. The player should get 50% of the profit, in my opinion, of the clothing bearing their names. I don't think most people understand that the player gets very little of the cut for the merchandise that they purchase. That is why you are seeing players negotiate their own deals and do business with other companies or sell their own merchandise. The problem is the school is connected to Spyre so the school has the rights to sell player merchandise through the Spyre deal and the player cannot do anything about it. I will withdraw from this conversation because I do not want it to look bad on Kirby or any other baseball players. I have had a conversation with Spyre because we had to work really hard to get Kirby's share and we agreed to see things differently. If they wanted to hear my view, I would be glad to share it. I'm sure they still have my number. If not, most people on here do. I just think something needs to be done for the nobodies. There is too much money, supposedly, being thrown around for the ones who need it not to get a cut. I really feel sorry for the players who have gotten pretty much nothing and actually played a key role in UT baseball and were/are loved by the fans.
Click to expand...

I think you need to share your thoughts and ideas here. There's power in numbers and we might be able to come up with more efficient ways to help our kids.

For example, instead of sending $100 a month to Spyre, send a $100 a month directly to a kid for a signed hat. We could have a thread of the month with a different kid. Just spitballing here.
 
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#75
#75
preacherman20 said:
I understand. As a pastor, I have to negotiate spiritual decisions and as a senior pastor business decisions. There are things that make sense business wise that do not make sense spirtiual and vice versa. I do not have a problem with Spyre making some money but I do have a problem with the way they have done things, in baseball which is all I can speak to. They have not always done things that I would call the right way but maybe I see it differently. I really do not have a problem mostly with how they have treated Kirby because we began to negotiate his own deals with companies rather than using Spyre so that he got a larger cut and they got none along with anyone else. I just have a problem with a player only getting about 8% of profits of a shirt or cap that has their name on it. The shirt is being sold for $30 and the player gets about .80 on it because their deal is not for the sales price but the retail price of the shirt or cap. The player should get 50% of the profit, in my opinion, of the clothing bearing their names. I don't think most people understand that the player gets very little of the cut for the merchandise that they purchase. That is why you are seeing players negotiate their own deals and do business with other companies or sell their own merchandise. The problem is the school is connected to Spyre so the school has the rights to sell player merchandise through the Spyre deal and the player cannot do anything about it. I will withdraw from this conversation because I do not want it to look bad on Kirby or any other baseball players. I have had a conversation with Spyre because we had to work really hard to get Kirby's share and we agreed to see things differently. If they wanted to hear my view, I would be glad to share it. I'm sure they still have my number. If not, most people on here do. I just think something needs to be done for the nobodies. There is too much money, supposedly, being thrown around for the ones who need it not to get a cut. I really feel sorry for the players who have gotten pretty much nothing and actually played a key role in UT baseball and were/are loved by the fans.
Click to expand...

I understand as well, and baseball is different. Just like the NFL clearly has the highest ratings in pro sports, UT football is king. They get 100k people every game, and the tv ratings aren’t comparable. I have no issue with brokering your own deals - do it when you can. But some student athletes don’t really have the resources to do that. Some money is better than none.

I’m confident that Spyre pays much more than 8% on their sold autographs. In fact, I’m pretty sure they publicly stated the percentage when they started selling them last year. But also, Spyre is paying student athletes for just appearances. They don’t have to have a shirt to get paid for the event series and podcasts. This gets the players in front of many, many fans who might be interested in their own NIL. It’s marketing the players.

The question that was always discussed when NIL was a possibility- who will pay the backup offensive lineman or backup QB? Well, if this is what they wanted to get paid, then that’s capitalism.
 
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