NLRB Rules College Athletes are EMPLOYEES

[S.C. OrangeMan]

O'Bannon was about NIL. Alston was about educational benefits.

Doesn't matter. The NCAA's rules about NIL are a federal antitrust violation. The Sherman Antitrust Act, to be specific.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Doesn't matter. The NCAA's rules about NIL are a federal antitrust violation. The Sherman Antitrust Act, to be specific.

That's not completely decided yet. TN and VA are suing saying they are but we're not there yet.

I believe any attempts to regulate NIL and its use to recruit will be shown to violate Sherman and the judge granting the TRO and extending it to an injunction seemed to think the case was very winnable for TN and VA, but it ain't over till it's over.

I'm hoping these things drag along for years and I still get to watch college football, kids at lesser institutions still get to play, etc.

I don't want the NCAA completely dead yet.

 

[dalton_vol]

I can just imagine players at Dartmouth striking at half time while you went to get popcorn. And Colgate wins by default ?

So if a player doesnt get enough time, he and his teammates could strike? Would they have contracts that state player A can only shoot 3's?

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

Cant wait to see what happens when folks pay a lot of good hard earned money to purchase season tickets and the college football players union initiates a strike because the players feel that the conditions/practices/schedules are too tough and they demand more money/benefits, and fewer practices and games.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Cant wait to see what happens when folks pay a lot of good hard earned money to purchase season tickets and the college football players union initiates a strike because the players feel that the conditions/practices/schedules are too tough and they demand more money/benefits, and fewer practices and games.

A players union with a contract would take care of all of those issues except a strike.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Cant wait to see what happens when folks pay a lot of good hard earned money to purchase season tickets and the college football players union initiates a strike because the players feel that the conditions/practices/schedules are too tough and they demand more money/benefits, and fewer practices and games.

Because strikes are SOOOOOOOO common in unionized professional leagues?

Have you tried reality?

 

[woodpusher]

Because strikes are SOOOOOOOO common in unionized professional leagues?

Have you tried reality?

They're not unheard of either.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Because strikes are SOOOOOOOO common in unionized professional leagues?

Have you tried reality?

MLB: 1972, 1980, 1981, 1985, 1995-95

NFL: 1968, 1974, 1982, 1987, 2011 (lockout)

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

MLB: 1972, 1980, 1981, 1985, 1995-95

NFL: 1968, 1974, 1982, 1987, 2011 (lockout)

Yep, they happen every week.

There's a reason why there are less labor issues these days. The unions and the owners finally realized strikes suck for everyone in the long run.

I'm hardly pro-union but the pearl clutching here is nuts.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Yep, they happen every week.

There's a reason why there are less labor issues these days. The unions and the owners finally realized strikes suck for everyone in the long run.

I'm hardly pro-union but the pearl clutching here is nuts.

So it went from SOOOOOOOO common to every week?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So it went from SOOOOOOOO common to every week?

I should've used blue font, I suppose.

Sports labor strikes aren't common at all because they aren't good for the sports at all. In America, there's a lot of choices for sports to watch.

Baseball is learning that now. Make your sport as dull as paint drying, folks leave.

Too much drama between labor and owners, folks leave. Unions and owners have learned.

Baseball hasn't fully learned about their problem yet.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I should've used blue font, I suppose.

Sports labor strikes aren't common at all because they aren't good for the sports at all. In America, there's a lot of choices for sports to watch.

Baseball is learning that now. Make your sport as dull as paint drying, folks leave.

Too much drama between labor and owners, folks leave. Unions and owners have learned.

Baseball hasn't fully learned about their problem yet.

They were quite common before players were earning millions at a minimum - some now making 9 figures. It would be stupid to strike now.

NCAA athletes are making a pittance while college sports brings in billions. Looks like a formula for plenty of labor unrest once the SAs are correctly classified as employees. Scoffing at the possibility of strikes is naive.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

They were quite common before players were earning millions at a minimum - some now making 9 figures. It would be stupid to strike now.

NCAA athletes are making a pittance while college sports brings in billions. Looks like a formula for plenty of labor unrest once the SAs are correctly classified as employees. Scoffing at the possibility of strikes is naive.

That labor unrest MIGHT lead to a quicker fix, actually.

Right now the NCAA sits like the owners did for generations and counts money and pays attorney fees.

Strikes could happen but scroll up to the absurdity above. Practice schedules? Playing time? Contracts for 3 pointers?

Dumb as dirt. There ARE real labor issues in college ball, as you see, but the above is

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

That labor unrest MIGHT lead to a quicker fix, actually.

Right now the NCAA sits like the owners did for generations and counts money and pays attorney fees.

Strikes could happen but scroll up to the absurdity above. Practice schedules? Playing time? Contracts for 3 pointers?

Dumb as dirt. There ARE real labor issues in college ball, as you see, but the above is

The reality is that strikes are very possible. I too want to see what happens. “Here’s your ticket refund for the cancelled games - but sorry. We’re keeping the “donation”.”

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The reality is that strikes are very possible. I too want to see what happens. “Here’s your ticket refund for the cancelled games - but sorry. We’re keeping the “donation”.”

In the case of Dartmouth, I SERIOUSLY doubt they hawk donations with season tickets.

Ivy League schools don't squeeze people for donations.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

In the case of Dartmouth, I SERIOUSLY doubt they hawk donations with season tickets.

Ivy League schools don't squeeze people for donations.

It’s the P5/6s that are at risk of striking. I think that some in the Ivy League don’t even have athletic scholarships.

The schools taking in hundreds of millions better figure it out real quick or else those players will organize and strike.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

It’s the P5/6s that are at risk of striking. I think that some in the Ivy League don’t even have athletic scholarships.

The schools taking in hundreds of millions better figure it out real quick or else those players will organize and strike.

NLRB rulings only apply to private schools and businesses. I'm unsure of the process to unionize state employees but I'd imagine the TN State Legislature gets to weigh in. Of all the issues related to the courts declaring "college athletes are employees," unionization is the least of my worries. There's little chance most athletics aren't axed, even at TN, if that happens.

I don't know what's going on at Dartmouth but the players might be either trying to piss off their parents, who likely loath unions, or perhaps are jockeying to get in some elite law school by being involved in a "landmark" ruling.

Either way, Dartmouth players being unionized would be more of a symptom of the "players are employees" disaster for college athletics than a big problem itself.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The P5 SAs don’t care if they’re legally employees or not. If they don’t get paid - striking (or whatever you want to call sitting out games) is a very real possibility. The public schools are pulling in billions and they better figure out how to share it with the players.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

NLRB rulings only apply to private schools and businesses. I'm unsure of the process to unionize state employees but I'd imagine the TN State Legislature gets to weigh in. Of all the issues related to the courts declaring "college athletes are employees," unionization is the least of my worries. There's little chance most athletics aren't axed, even at TN, if that happens.

I don't know what's going on at Dartmouth but the players might be either trying to piss off their parents, who likely loath unions, or perhaps are jockeying to get in some elite law school by being involved in a "landmark" ruling.

Either way, Dartmouth players being unionized would be more of a symptom of the "players are employees" disaster for college athletics than a big problem itself.

There's an angle to make pay for play apply to public colleges and universities. The NCAA and the conferences are all private.

That could give the NLRB ruling an avenue to apply to them for revenue sharing.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The P5 SAs don’t care if they’re legally employees or not. If they don’t get paid - striking (or whatever you want to call sitting out games) is a very real possibility. The public schools are pulling in billions and they better figure out how to share it with the players.

I know it's fashionable to blame the athletes in this but they didn't make the previous rules denying NIL nor the new rules allowing NIL. It's a direct result of the courts.

The same thing with the portal. In both cases, the NCAA was running from Federal Court decisions which made it obvious their rules are/were illegal.

I'm not sure WHAT the student athletes think other than: it's time to get recruited for college and Holy Crap!!!! You're offering me WHAT? AND it's legal now? I'm in.

The schools and NCAA have dropped the ball for decades and decades on this. That they're getting sued up to their eyeballs is their own fault. That the NLRB is coming after them is their own fault.

If I was an 18yo talented athlete, I'd be grinning too, but all they did was come of age in the 2020s.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I know it's fashionable to blame the athletes in this but they didn't make the previous rules denying NIL nor the new rules allowing NIL. It's a direct result of the courts.

The same thing with the portal. In both cases, the NCAA was running from Federal Court decisions which made it obvious their rules are/were illegal.

I'm not sure WHAT the student athletes think other than: it's time to get recruited for college and Holy Crap!!!! You're offering me WHAT? AND it's legal now? I'm in.

The schools and NCAA have dropped the ball for decades and decades on this. That they're getting sued up to their eyeballs is their own fault. That the NLRB is coming after them is their own fault.

If I was an 18yo talented athlete, I'd be grinning too, but all they did was come of age in the 2020s.

I’m certainly not blaming the student athletes one bit. The greed of the administrators and coaches taking in billions (and millions individually) on the exploitation of players is what got the pushback primed. Ironic that the NCAA was established to protect players from death and injury and now t here’s an epidemic of CTE health cases created under their watch.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I’m certainly not blaming the student athletes one bit. The greed of the administrators and coaches taking in billions (and millions individually) on the exploitation of players is what got the pushback primed. Ironic that the NCAA was established to protect players from death and injury and now t here’s an epidemic of CTE health cases created under their watch.

CTE is a terrible issue and is also an issue in futbol, I believe, which is an extremely popular sport worldwide. I've no answers. None.

With college sports, I've been preaching that the schools either need to get in the pro sports business or out of the pro business. The media contracts, the salaries of coaches, the facilities, etc aren't compatible with an educational mission, IMO. I know there's good opinions that differ from mine about that and about what big-time athletics bring to the campus experience.

The NLRB decision about Dartmouth, in particular, where the players aren't on scholarship, are seldom on national TV, aren't really elite talents, etc but are STILL being called employees is very, very telling about the "student athlete" model being broken.

Those students have almost no NIL value, almost no pro future, etc but even they are employees?

Legally, I'm afraid, the "student athlete" era is nearly over.

Yes, strikes would suck, but if even the Dartmouth basketball team, with dubious monetary value, are employees....... Ugh. It's over.

 

[Remy]

There are other relevant details in there that wouldn't necessarily affect "normal" schools, in that Ivy League schools apparently don't offer traditional athletic scholarships....

I agree the Ivy League situation is apples and oranges compared to our and UV's situation.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Yeah but you can't do that. You can't create a special category for work and call it play. That's what the NCAA did, or tried to do, these past hundred years. Trying to call it "play" is really not much different than the NCAA trying to call them "student-athletes." The moment any school or any entity tries to call it "play," or carve out some other special destinction that allows it to be treated as anything other than employment, is the moment they'll get hauled to court, and the precedent being set right now will support them. "Oh, they're doing it for the fun of the sport." Won't matter, not to a court, and not to the law.

People have lobbied for years for the players to be compensated as workers. And now they're getting what they wanted. WIth all the rights and privileges of employment contained therein.

Wonder how many players will lose money with this deal. Salary ranges will be established and then they will have to pay their tuition AT THE EMPLOYEE going rate, room and board, not sure how health care works, how food will have to be looked at if the rest of the employees have to buy their own. At least out of state issues go away as employees. All of this after they pay federal taxes, and state taxes if applicable, also a variable. Does this put Vandy out of business? Other high cost schools? Can the going rate by position be anything but flat across the nation? Does it vary at all by team in the pros?

What a mess this is going to be. I guess the stipend can be variable. Families better get their spreadsheet skills honed in.

 

[woodpusher]

The reality is that strikes are very possible. I too want to see what happens. “Here’s your ticket refund for the cancelled games - but sorry. We’re keeping the “donation”.”

The company my mom worked for had bought an ad on the boards at the old Civic Arena in Pittsburgh -- there was an NHL strike that year -- no refund was given.
I'm not sure about season ticket holders.