NLRB Rules College Athletes are EMPLOYEES

[Snapper58]

There is a review of the board's ruling on I believe March 5th. This is the level that turned down Northwestern's ruling that they could unionize. This appeal will be interesting because one of the main reasons Northwestern lost the right to vote for a union was because northwestern was the only private school in thier conference. In this case most of the schools in the Ivy league are private.

 

[kcvols1]

It wasn't a job to her, it was a passion. And that's why the NLRB is wrong. Athletes would do it even if there were no compensation in any form. So it is not--by their meaning of the term--work.

Go Vols!

Hey bud, saw this and had to let you know that it looks like Willie Stargell would’ve agreed with you.

We’ll see if the full NLRB does too.

Hope you’re having a blessed one!

 

[Hulavol]

I think it’s time to kill it.

They killed the golden goose.

Zero NIL. Zilch.

You want to get paid to play ? Go to the NFL minor leagues like a baseball player has to. There will be less fanfare than double A HS ball in west Toledo during a snow storm.

You wanna play CFB in front of a hundred thousand fans and millions more on TV? You can have a free ride to college and that’s it. Because guess what ? The fans of CFB will show up with water boys playing.

To hell with paying them. I say we kill it right now.
You wanna play in NCAA sports? You’re an amateur. You don’t get any NIL. You want NIL?
Go join the NFL d league.
This is simple. Every school agrees to it and make it a private voluntary organization. You don’t have to play in the NCAA- but if you do, then no NIL money. Go straight to the NFL. We don’t care. No more asking for more money every year. Golden goose says business is permanently closed.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

There is a review of the board's ruling on I believe March 5th. This is the level that turned down Northwestern's ruling that they could unionize. This appeal will be interesting because one of the main reasons Northwestern lost the right to vote for a union was because northwestern was the only private school in thier conference. In this case most of the schools in the Ivy league are private.

The new counter argument to that is that the rules against college athletes as employees are made by the NCAA, a private 501(c)(3) private, nonprofit corporation.

If the rules are made by a private corporation, technically any organization that is a member should be subject to private company law.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I think it’s time to kill it.

They killed the golden goose.

Zero NIL. Zilch.

You want to get paid to play ? Go to the NFL minor leagues like a baseball player has to. There will be less fanfare than double A HS ball in west Toledo during a snow storm.

You wanna play CFB in front of a hundred thousand fans and millions more on TV? You can have a free ride to college and that’s it. Because guess what ? The fans of CFB will show up with water boys playing.

To hell with paying them. I say we kill it right now.
You wanna play in NCAA sports? You’re an amateur. You don’t get any NIL. You want NIL?
Go join the NFL d league.
This is simple. Every school agrees to it and make it a private voluntary organization. You don’t have to play in the NCAA- but if you do, then no NIL money. Go straight to the NFL. We don’t care. No more asking for more money every year. Golden goose says business is permanently closed.

Nice try, but there won't be a hundred thousand people clamoring to watch UT play Toledo level football when the good players are in the NFL minor leagues.

They aren't even clamoring to watch Vandy level football. Quality matters.

So, yeah, tell the players, who UT would've GLADLY paid under the table in the old days, they can't be paid in the open light and see how long you enjoy watching 2* QBs throw to walk on level WRs.

It's stunningly hypocritical for schools who've been paying players in the dark for years to suddenly say "Why should we pay these players?" when it's in the light.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I think it’s time to kill it.

They killed the golden goose.

Zero NIL. Zilch.

You want to get paid to play ? Go to the NFL minor leagues like a baseball player has to. There will be less fanfare than double A HS ball in west Toledo during a snow storm.

You wanna play CFB in front of a hundred thousand fans and millions more on TV? You can have a free ride to college and that’s it. Because guess what ? The fans of CFB will show up with water boys playing.

To hell with paying them. I say we kill it right now.
You wanna play in NCAA sports? You’re an amateur. You don’t get any NIL. You want NIL?
Go join the NFL d league.
This is simple. Every school agrees to it and make it a private voluntary organization. You don’t have to play in the NCAA- but if you do, then no NIL money. Go straight to the NFL. We don’t care. No more asking for more money every year. Golden goose says business is permanently closed.

What part of NIL not being employment is so difficult to understand? The NCAA can't prevent NIL or regulate it in any way. That would be a violation of federal law.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Shop stewards determine who plays and who doesn't? Lineups decided by seniority instead of by talent or merit? Sit down strikes, grievances and collective bargaining when practice gets too hard? NIL pay by seniority? Sit down strike just before a big game with a stadium full of paying fans?

Sounds like a good plan to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not in sports. Major league sports coaches/managers get to choose who plays.
That's written into the players union contracts.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

I think you miss the topic of this thread, which is not about whether the NCAA should exist. It is about the NLRB's ruling, what it means, and whether it was valid and will stand.

The NLRB ruled that the players at Dartmouth perform "work in exchange for compensation," and therefore are employees of the university and must be allowed to unionize if they wish.

The problem there is with the NLRB's definition of "work" (think work as in a job, not work as in effort, that's how the NLRB views it).

My position is, it's not a job. It's a sport. Something most college athletes would continue without any form of material compensation. A factory worker won't go to work without pay. An office worker, either. Nor a policeman. Nor a truck driver. Those are jobs. Those fit the NLRB's definition of "work." Sport doesn't fit, because the players usually/almost always play motivated in a variety of ways other than material compensation. The money/scholarships don't hurt, but that's not why they're doing it, as proven by the fact that they'd usually play anyway.

Go Vols!

So, does the fact the NCAA just ponied up $2.8 B with a "B" shed any light on the validity of the NLRB's ruling and whether playing a sport is considered work?

 

[VFL-82-JP]

So, does the fact the NCAA just ponied up $2.8 B with a "B" shed any light on the validity of the NLRB's ruling and whether playing a sport is considered work?

Nope.

Doesn't change the point I was making in any way.

Every college football player, and every pro in the NFL, XFL, arena league, all of them, they all started playing the sport for fun. Usually as pre-teen kids in Pop Warner or some community league. They picked up the sport of football for fun.

They played in junior high for fun.

They played in high school for fun.

And the vast majority of the ones in college, they're playing for fun, too.

So do you really believe the college players who ARE getting paid, they suddenly decided the sport isn't fun?

If it's something a person would do for free, it's not work. The fact that some do get paid doesn't change that.

 

[spacificislander]

Let's not confuse terms. In the NLRB's terminology, "work" doesn't just mean "hard" or "challenging" or "demanding." It means labor performed in exchange for financial compensation. It means "a job."

To see what I mean, let's look at the service academies. They have athletes competing to be on the rosters of all the sports, from football to basketball to golf to tennis to boxing to water polo to team handball.

Not a single one of them is paid to do the sport.

Not a single one of them will go pro as anything but a military officer.

They're all on the equivalent of 100% scholarship, whether they join a sports team or not.

Every student feels a duty to the school (or more accurately, to the nation behind that school's identity).

So there is no way on this planet that the sport(s) they pursue are "work." Hard, challenging, demanding ... but not work.

They're doing it for fun. They're busting their butts, getting up before dawn for two-a-days, suffering through ice baths and treatment for injuries, and embracing all the other non-fun aspects of the sport, because they want to, because it's what they think of as fun, satisfying, enriching.

That's not "work," not using the NLRB's definition.

Would the student athletes do it without compensation at all of the non service academy schools? You’ve tried this argument before.

I think you are totally wrong here and it is performing labor (practice, training, and participation in the games) for compensation (scholarships, room, meal plan).

But I don’t think I will convince you and I know you won’t convince me either. That’s ok.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Nope.

Doesn't change the point I was making in any way.

Every college football player, and every pro in the NFL, XFL, arena league, all of them, they all started playing the sport for fun. Usually as pre-teen kids in Pop Warner or some community league. They picked up the sport of football for fun.

They played in junior high for fun.

They played in high school for fun.

And the vast majority of the ones in college, they're playing for fun, too.

So do you really believe the college players who ARE getting paid, they suddenly decided the sport isn't fun?

If it's something a person would do for free, it's not work. The fact that some do get paid doesn't change that.

Nonsensical response and pure comedy gold.

I know in today's culture it's popular to "have your own truths" and create alternate realities while gaslighting others in hopes of them somehow believing your made up narrative...carry on...lmao.

 

[turbovol]

Nice try, but there won't be a hundred thousand people clamoring to watch UT play Toledo level football when the good players are in the NFL minor leagues.

They aren't even clamoring to watch Vandy level football. Quality matters.

So, yeah, tell the players, who UT would've GLADLY paid under the table in the old days, they can't be paid in the open light and see how long you enjoy watching 2* QBs throw to walk on level WRs.

It's stunningly hypocritical for schools who've been paying players in the dark for years to suddenly say "Why should we pay these players?" when it's in the light.

Not true. Good basketball players leave all the time after a year or two--the one and done, two and done, one/two and transfer. Hasn't affected the quality of college basketball at all.

Calling student-athletes employees is stupid. College football /BB have spun out of control--and so have the players. You want to be an employee? Fine: No academic scholarship--the schools now need the money anyway---and coaches should kick all under-performers or the less talented off the team at their discretion. I promise you this: even with this NCAA settlement, the demands will keep coming. A couple of idiot judges have opened a pandora's box. There is this narrative that everybody's been getting rich on the backs on the players. It's nonsense. There are only about 25 athletic departments, on average, that make a profit every year--the rest lose money. Who exactly is getting rich? The coaches are very well paid--but they are experienced real employees--not college students. Athletic directors should stop their idiotic tendency to rush an extension offer to the football coach when he has one good or even just above average season. A coach has a nice season and these goofy ADs want to give a major raise and lengthy extension to the guy when he's still got three or more years left on his contract. It's idiocy.

The only real college sports left now are the non-revenue sports---good sports, all of them, with talented and very well-rounded student-athletes playing them. Football and basketball have just become big, seedy money grabs by everybody involved with them.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I still say this whole mess would have been avoided if not for decades of greed and exploitative behavior of school bighots and their affiliates. They're reaping what they sowed. It's not that I'm happy to see this mess. It's that I acknowledge it is a natural outcome of greed and playing athletes as suckers. So I just say, yummmm, doesn't that Chupa Chup taste good?

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Yep. The dominoes are all falling into place as I have forseen it! Eventually there will be no academic requirements for college players either. It's already a joke, might as well be forthcoming and honest about it.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Nope.

Doesn't change the point I was making in any way.

Every college football player, and every pro in the NFL, XFL, arena league, all of them, they all started playing the sport for fun. Usually as pre-teen kids in Pop Warner or some community league. They picked up the sport of football for fun.

They played in junior high for fun.

They played in high school for fun.

And the vast majority of the ones in college, they're playing for fun, too.

So do you really believe the college players who ARE getting paid, they suddenly decided the sport isn't fun?

If it's something a person would do for free, it's not work. The fact that some do get paid doesn't change that.

Work is work whether you get paid for it or not.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Work is work whether you get paid for it or not.

Exactly. And play is play, whether you can find someone to pay you to do it, or not.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I think it’s time to kill it.

They killed the golden goose.

Zero NIL. Zilch.

You want to get paid to play ? Go to the NFL minor leagues like a baseball player has to. There will be less fanfare than double A HS ball in west Toledo during a snow storm.

You wanna play CFB in front of a hundred thousand fans and millions more on TV? You can have a free ride to college and that’s it. Because guess what ? The fans of CFB will show up with water boys playing.

To hell with paying them. I say we kill it right now.
You wanna play in NCAA sports? You’re an amateur. You don’t get any NIL. You want NIL?
Go join the NFL d league.
This is simple. Every school agrees to it and make it a private voluntary organization. You don’t have to play in the NCAA- but if you do, then no NIL money. Go straight to the NFL. We don’t care. No more asking for more money every year. Golden goose says business is permanently closed.

Sounds like you want to go back to the old status quo where the school big whigs had all the power to profit from players during and even long after they left, while players' reward was to just be grateful for being exploited. The only kind of capitalism perceived as not only fair, but pure. Uh-uh, screw that.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Nope.

Doesn't change the point I was making in any way.

Every college football player, and every pro in the NFL, XFL, arena league, all of them, they all started playing the sport for fun. Usually as pre-teen kids in Pop Warner or some community league. They picked up the sport of football for fun.

They played in junior high for fun.

They played in high school for fun.

And the vast majority of the ones in college, they're playing for fun, too.

So do you really believe the college players who ARE getting paid, they suddenly decided the sport isn't fun?

If it's something a person would do for free, it's not work. The fact that some do get paid doesn't change that.

Tell the U. S. Supreme Court and let them remind you what their ruling means.

 

[volfan102455]

Sounds like you want to go back to the old status quo where the school big whigs had all the power to profit from players during and even long after they left, while players' reward was to just be grateful for being exploited. The only kind of capitalism perceived as not only fair, but pure. Uh-uh, screw that.

The only players that eventually will make anything are those that play football at the schools that make money, and only a handful of ADs make money. Universities will eventually shut down most sports - meaning no scholarships to play, and less opportunity for all student athletes. This is not a win for any athletes other than football players at a very few schools.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

The only players that eventually will make anything are those that play football at the schools that make money, and only a handful of ADs make money. Universities will eventually shut down most sports - meaning no scholarships to play, and less opportunity for all student athletes. This is not a win for any athletes other than football players at a very few schools.

It's still the product of decades of greedy and exploitive schools and their affiliates.

 

[volfan102455]

It's still the product of decades of greedy and exploitive schools and their affiliates.

The athletes do get something in return for playing sports at a university. The reality is very soon many of those athletes will get nothing due to the greediness of football.

 

[volfan102455]

I also think eventually we may be back to the times when there will not be non-stop sports on television as there could very well not be enough games to show.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

The athletes do get something in return for playing sports at a university. The reality is very soon many of those athletes will get nothing due to the greediness of football.

Oh you mean the crumbs that fell from the perpetually benefitting big shots? When a player could be smeared and further opportunities denied him, like what happen to Pig Howard under Butchie Jonesy? Or the player who begged for tacos cause he had no means toobtain food? And other one-sided power scales? Screw that, players want a seat at the table, suddenly they are the bad guys.

 

[volfan102455]

Oh you mean the crumbs that fell from the perpetually benefitting big shots? When a player could be smeared and further opportunities denied him, like what happen to Pig Howard under Butchie Jonesy? Or the player who begged for tacos cause he had no means toobtain food? And other one-sided power scales? Screw that, players want a seat at the table, suddenly they are the bad guys.

You do realize that many college students, not just athletes, are broke while in school. You either take out loans that will take you years to repay or you scrounge for everything all 4 years.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

You do realize that many college students, not just athletes, are broke while in school. You either take out loans that will take you years to repay or you scrounge for everything all 4 years.

Yeah, I was one of them. There are grants, scholarships tied to business sectors, endowments, tied to specific industries and so on. Always has been, since around the 1960s at least. There are also work study scholarships, some of which I got too. It isn't all about athletes. You have to at finding some of them, which isn't that hard, easier now because instead of a massive financial aid book, we have computers to hasten the searches. Some sources pay all or part of tuition and more if your grades are steady at a certain, I got some of that too by consistently being on the dean's list. You see, there was no NIL in my time, and if it was, I wouldn't have qualified as a gymnast, wrestler, and track athlete. Otherwise, I hunted down every penny I could get, even on and off campus jobs. Football was a nonissue as a nonfootball player then, can be the same now.