Non Citizens Voting

#80
#80
#84
#84
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well of course it does if they just changed the law. The question is why the change?
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My question is why it wasn't done earlier. These people are legally living and working in the community yet didn't have a day how it was being run? Seems odd
 
#85
#85
utvolpj said:
My question is why it wasn't done earlier. These people are legally living and working in the community yet didn't have a day how it was being run? Seems odd
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How many of these people had a say in how things were run where they came from? They do have choices. They can move somewhere else where they like the way things are run - city, state or country, go back home, or apply for citizenship. If you're born here you must wait 18 years to vote, waiting 7 doesn't seem that bad.
 
#86
#86
Wireless1 said:
How many of these people had a say in how things were run where they came from? They do have choices. They can move somewhere else where they like the way things are run - city, state or country, go back home, or apply for citizenship. If you're born here you must wait 18 years to vote, waiting 7 doesn't seem that bad.
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They are adults living in the US who work, live and pay taxes like others in their community. They should have a choice in how it is run

The US immigration system is broken and you still want to rely on it?
 
#87
#87
utvolpj said:
They are adults living in the US who work, live and pay taxes like others in their community. They should have a choice in how it is run

The US immigration system is broken and you still want to rely on it?
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No they shouldn't. They are (with a green card) invited guests who have the benefit of earning a living, using our facilities and in return pay taxes and obey our laws. One of which permits them to gain citizenship if they apply and fulfil the requirements.
If you invite a contractor to remodel your house, does that automatically give him/her the right to start directing and punishing your children, choosing what toilet paper you purchase, whether you get a new dog?
 
#88
#88
utvolpj said:
They are adults living in the US who work, live and pay taxes like others in their community. They should have a choice in how it is run

The US immigration system is broken and you still want to rely on it?
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BTW, you are correct that the immigration system is broken, it should be much more stringent and restrictive.
 
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#89
#89
Wireless1 said:
No they shouldn't. They are (with a green card) invited guests who have the benefit of earning a living, using our facilities and in return pay taxes and obey our laws. One of which permits them to gain citizenship if they apply and fulfil the requirements.
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So you agree they should be taxed without any say in representation?
Wireless1 said:
If you invite a contractor to remodel your house, does that automatically give him/her the right to start directing and punishing your children, choosing what toilet paper you purchase, whether you get a new dog?
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Difference is he doesn't live in my house or pay the bills
 
#90
#90
How is NYC going to effectively keep these non-citizens from voting in State & Federal elections.

There going to be a nice velvet rope separating the booths on Election Day?
 
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#91
#91
85SugarVol said:
How is NYC going to effectively keep these non-citizens from voting in State & Federal elections.

There going to be a nice velvet rope separating the booths on Election Day?
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When I early vote my ballot just has the races I'm eligible to vote in. I don't see why they couldn't do the same. BUT let's all wait and see how many "foul ups" they have with people getting national races on their ballots.
 
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#92
#92
utvolpj said:
So you agree they should be taxed without any say in representation?

Difference is he doesn't live in my house or pay the bills
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Absolutely. That’s the choice they made by coming here illegally. But don’t be silly and pretend they pay actual taxes to begin with.
 
#93
#93
utvolpj said:
So they should get taxation without representation?
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Are teenagers taxed on their paychecks?

Can they vote?

Should a non us citizen have better rights than a legal US citizen simply because age discrimination is accepted in this country.
 
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#94
#94
NEO said:
Are teenagers taxed on their paychecks?

Can they vote?

Should a non us citizen have better rights than a legal US citizen simply because age discrimination is accepted in this country.
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I'm all for a taxpayer being allowed to vote. As of now they are not allowed to by law. They are correcting the discrepancy for green card holders with this

They can probably also buy cigs and beer. Let's lock that down!
 
#95
#95
AshG said:
If they're paying taxes, then it's as the Founders intended.
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Is it?
If you were a female shop owner back then did you pay taxes and get to vote or were they not taxing female owned shops? Odd that for the first 80 or so years in this country you had to own land to vote, unless you were a female landowner who had no vote. Were those female landowners still getting taxed?
 
#96
#96
utvolpj said:
They are adults living in the US who work, live and pay taxes like others in their community. They should have a choice in how it is run

The US immigration system is broken and you still want to rely on it?
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The US immigration system is not broken. The system is very easy to manage through and going from a green card holder to US citizen is not a hard transition. I have been through the process with my wife and multiple family members of hers and each was a very easy fill out the packet, pay the fees, study the CD they send, do the interview and then go to the court house and be sworn in as a US citizen.

The issue is not the system. The issue is the government allowing the border to be over run and large groups side stepping the normal process.
 
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#97
#97
NEO said:
The US immigration system is not broken. The system is very easy to manage through and going from a green card holder to US citizen is not a hard transition. I have been through the process with my wife and multiple family members of hers and each was a very easy fill out the packet, pay the fees, study the CD they send, do the interview and then go to the court house and be sworn in as a US citizen.

The issue is not the system. The issue is the government allowing the border to be over run and large groups side stepping the normal process.
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The US immigration system does not address the dire need for manual labor in this country. It is broken
 
#98
#98
utvolpj said:
The US immigration system does not address the dire need for manual labor in this country. It is broken
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So bring in a ton of immigrants who will have no career avenue in the next decade as more and more manual labor is automized?

Seems forcing work seeking and acceptance of job offers to maintain welfare benefits is a better outlet.
 
#99
#99
NEO said:
So bring in a ton of immigrants who will have no career avenue in the next decade as more and more manual labor is automized?
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You keep acting as if it current system has any chance of addressing these huge issues. This isn't solved with a border monument. For example, they can estimate the labor need and create a guest worker program to fill it.

Neither party really wants to touch this as it keeps their followers in constant argument. It's what the need
 
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#100
#100
utvolpj said:
You keep acting as if it current system has any chance of addressing these huge issues. This isn't solved with a border monument. For example, they can estimate the labor need and create a guest worker program to fill it.

Neither party really wants to touch this as it keeps their followers in constant argument. It's what the need
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The border aside I am lost on the manual labor aspect. We already have enough population to fill these slots but we have made not working so lucrative that these jobs are no longer being filled.

The immigration system is (was actually) deigned to bring in people who added areas of need abs could self support themselves and their families.

Someone coming over here with the intention of doing manual labor is not on a whole going to be able to supper themselves.

Unless you mean contractors which again needs to be a circle back to current population already here.
 
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