Non Citizens Voting

#101
#101
NEO said:
So bring in a ton of immigrants who will have no career avenue in the next decade as more and more manual labor is automized?

Seems forcing work seeking and acceptance of job offers to maintain welfare benefits is a better outlet.
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Indentured servitude is the way we need to go.
 
#103
#103
NEO said:
The border aside I am lost on the manual labor aspect. We already have enough population to fill these slots but we have made not working so lucrative that these jobs are no longer being filled.

The immigration system is (was actually) deigned to bring in people who added areas of need abs could self support themselves and their families.

Someone coming over here with the intention of doing manual labor is not on a whole going to be able to supper themselves.

Unless you mean contractors which again needs to be a circle back to current population already here.
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The fields are cleared by immigrant labor. The construction boom is also fueled by them (or at least was in the last one). The idea is for temporary work not long term residence. It would work if anyone was actually serious
 
#104
#104
utvolpj said:
The fields are cleared by immigrant labor. The construction boom is also fueled by them (or at least was in the last one). The idea is for temporary work not long term residence. It would work if anyone was actually serious
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The reason immigrants, mainly Mexicans, are used is because it’s under the table as they are illegal and they undercut legal citizens due this. They will take 10 when an actual contractor will charge 20.

The roofing abs framing portion is where the majority of them go.

You would need a major overhaul of the entire system to prevent this and it would span across labor and immigration.

Honestly, as long as a contractor can load his truck bed up with 8 guys who can pound a nail I don’t see this changing. It would also increase home prices and cause even more issues on a ripple effect.
 
#106
#106
NEO said:
The reason immigrants, mainly Mexicans, are used is because it’s under the table as they are illegal and they undercut legal citizens due this. They will take 10 when an actual contractor will charge 20.

The roofing abs framing portion is where the majority of them go.

You would need a major overhaul of the entire system to prevent this and it would span across labor and immigration.

Honestly, as long as a contractor can load his truck bed up with 8 guys who can pound a nail I don’t see this changing. It would also increase home prices and cause even more issues on a ripple effect.
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Then the job is worth $10. Get a guest worker program and pay them $10. How does this change that?

I can assure you they cover every trade, even the semi-skilled ones

I'm absolutely in favor of an overhaul. The war on immigration is as bad as the way on drugs and every buy as costly.
 
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#107
#107
utvolpj said:
So you agree they should be taxed without any say in representation?

Difference is he doesn't live in my house or pay the bills
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Yes, they probably have never had a voice anyway. They are guests, if they want those privileges, then become a citizen.

Do you understand the NYC law is set for 30 days residency? How many on here have spent more than 30 days in a city that's not really their residence? If you did do you expect to vote in local elections so you have a voice?
And if you want to tie voting to paying taxes, that door swings both ways, if you don't pay taxes (or enough) should you be restricted from voting even if a citizen?
 
#108
#108
utvolpj said:
Then the job is worth $10. Get a guest worker program and pay them $10. How does this change that?

I can assure you they cover every trade, even the semi-skilled ones

I'm absolutely in favor of an overhaul. The war on immigration is as bad as the way on drugs and every buy as costly.
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You can’t get legal citizens to work now for 15.

Overhaul the welfare system completely and the manual labor shortage is fixed.

We don’t need even more unskilled labor in this country.

All you are going to do by expanding immigration for low skilled people is expand and blow up the welfare system.
 
#109
#109
Wireless1 said:
Yes, they probably have never had a voice anyway. They are guests, if they want those privileges, then become a citizen.

Do you understand the NYC law is set for 30 days residency? How many on here have spent more than 30 days in a city that's not really their residence? If you did do you expect to vote in local elections so you have a voice?
And if you want to tie voting to paying taxes, that door swings both ways, if you don't pay taxes (or enough) should you be restricted from voting even if a citizen?
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Then fix the process to become a citizen or fix the worker problem

You're continuing to work inside the current broken system. It needs to be redone completely
 
#110
#110
NEO said:
You can’t get legal citizens to work now for 15.

Overhaul the welfare system completely and the manual labor shortage is fixed.

We don’t need even more unskilled labor in this country.

All you are going to do by expanding immigration for low skilled people is expand and blow up the welfare system.
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You made up the $10/$20 not me. If the job will be done for a lower rate then no need to inflate wages just because of someone's place of birth. That's pretty basic

I think you severely underestimate the amount of labor being done by illegals. Farms, building, food processing, etc are all done by them.

People on welfare aren't going to move from cities to the farms just because you cut off their welfare. Why is blowing up those programs more important than fixing the immigration and labor problem? These people are begging for work
 
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#112
#112
utvolpj said:
You made up the $10/$20 not me. If the job will be done for a lower rate then no need to inflate wages just because of someone's place of birth. That's pretty basic

I think you severely underestimate the amount of labor being done by illegals. Farms, building, food processing, etc are all done by them.

People on welfare aren't going to move from cities to the farms just because you cut off their welfare. Why is blowing up those programs more important than fixing the immigration and labor problem? These people are begging for work
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I didn’t make up the 10 slash 20. That’s the actual ratios going right now. 20 for a hammer done by a normal apprentice or 10 to 12 by an illegal.

And there is a ton of illegal work out there.

You know why???? Because they don’t qualify for welfare and will starve if they don’t work.

Cut the welfare and people will start taking jobs.

You gotta stop moving the goal post too. We are talking construction which is mainly city work and you then drag me out into the fields.

Fix welfare and then you will have a much better idea of the number of workers still needed and you can base immigration acceptance numbers on that.

You wanna overhaul immigration? Fine. But you must match it with welfare reform.
 
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#113
#113
NEO said:
I didn’t make up the 10 slash 20. That’s the actual ratios going right now. 20 for a hammer done by a normal apprentice or 10 to 12 by an illegal.

And there is a ton of illegal work out there.

You know why???? Because they don’t qualify for welfare and will starve if they don’t work.

Cut the welfare and people will start taking jobs.

You gotta stop moving the goal post too. We are talking construction which is mainly city work and you then drag me out into the fields.

Fix welfare and then you will have a much better idea of the number of workers still needed and you can base immigration acceptance numbers on that.

You wanna overhaul immigration? Fine. But you must match it with welfare reform.
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I mentioned fields from the start but added processing plants since that's a huge deal as well. You honed in on construction which is fine since in a past life I spent 6yrs visiting jobsites in the fastest growing market in the US. I was very familiar with the labor market

If a hammer will be swung for $10 with no difference in quality then that's the market rate. You said to blow up welfare so if you do then the rate will go there anyways right? Why continue to worry about the artificial floor? If that apprentice wants to eat he'll grab $10 too
 
#114
#114
Democrats NEED illegals to vote but illegals can’t get an ID. That’s why they’re pushing so hard for mail in ballots and no ID requirement to vote. Which is all the proof you need to know that the election was stolen in 2020. They can’t win without illegal votes
 
#115
#115
1vol8 said:
Democrats NEED illegals to vote but illegals can’t get an ID. That’s why they’re pushing so hard for mail in ballots and no ID requirement to vote. Which is all the proof you need to know that the election was stolen in 2020. They can’t win without illegal votes
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They don't need illegals to vote, they count the votes.
 
#116
#116
utvolpj said:
I mentioned fields from the start but added processing plants since that's a huge deal as well. You honed in on construction which is fine since in a past life I spent 6yrs visiting jobsites in the fastest growing market in the US. I was very familiar with the labor market

If a hammer will be swung for $10 with no difference in quality then that's the market rate. You said to blow up welfare so if you do then the rate will go there anyways right? Why continue to worry about the artificial floor? If that apprentice wants to eat he'll grab $10 too
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I agree with plants also in your labor assessment and missed that part.

I am totally ok with filling the gaps needed with immigrants via a work visa or green card etc but you must first fix welfare to get a large portion of our population into these fields.

I do believe that if you blow up welfare the rate becomes the true floor.

As to your immigration overhaul: what all changes would you make?
 
#117
#117
NEO said:
I didn’t make up the 10 slash 20. That’s the actual ratios going right now. 20 for a hammer done by a normal apprentice or 10 to 12 by an illegal.

And there is a ton of illegal work out there.

You know why???? Because they don’t qualify for welfare and will starve if they don’t work.

Cut the welfare and people will start taking jobs.

You gotta stop moving the goal post too. We are talking construction which is mainly city work and you then drag me out into the fields.

Fix welfare and then you will have a much better idea of the number of workers still needed and you can base immigration acceptance numbers on that.

You wanna overhaul immigration? Fine. But you must match it with welfare reform.
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And while we're asking Santa, can we get the "single" moms off the program too? I bet they'd learn to say no, or get a ring from a responsible guy if that was the case.
 
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#118
#118
NEO said:
I am totally ok with filling the gaps needed with immigrants via a work visa or green card etc but you must first fix welfare to get a large portion of our population into these fields.
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That large portion of our population is not on welfare but rather 40+ year-olds on disability.
 
#120
#120
C-south said:
That’s a great requirement in order to vote. Of course I’m sure you’ll cherry pick which taxes are applicable and which aren’t.
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If they would simply make it net taxes greater than 10% then we would have something.
 
#121
#121
hog88 said:
They don't need illegals to vote, they count the votes.
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Ok. Keep telling yourself that 2020 was the way it should be. They counted until they knew they lost. Then they brought out bags and bags of what was obviously all Biden ballots. I call BS
 
#122
#122
1vol8 said:
Ok. Keep telling yourself that 2020 was the way it should be. They counted until they knew they lost. Then they brought out bags and bags of what was obviously all Biden ballots. I call BS
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Are you arguing with me or agreeing?
 
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