Obama asks for stay of execution in Texas.

#52
#52
that's different. In this case the state was not bound by a treaty that wasn't ratified in Congress
 
#54
#54
utvolpj said:
that's different. In this case the state was not bound by a treaty that wasn't ratified in Congress
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Ok, forgive my ignorance. I think the point here is that we should be allowing these people contact with their countries prior to the carrying out of sentences. I'm not arguing the dude wasn't scum.
 
#55
#55
KiffinKiller said:
Ok, forgive my ignorance. I think the point here is that we should be allowing these people contact with their countries prior to the carrying out of sentences. I'm not arguing the dude wasn't scum.
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What law says they must be told of this ability? Heck what law even says it has to be allowed even if requested? It's the last ditch effort of a convicted rapist/killer.

If we're arguing the hypothetical "Should we" then that's different
 
#56
#56
I can't agree with an international law trumping our sovereignty, especially in a domestic affair.
 
#58
#58
nbakerld said:
I can't agree with an international law trumping our sovereignty, especially in a domestic affair.
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Even so, you know we would be raising a stink if this were our citizen in another country.

By we, I mean our government.
 
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#59
#59
KiffinKiller said:
Even so, you know we would be raising a stink if this were our citizen in another country.
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if the process in their country is similar to ours and he was convicted then I won't care one bit. It was a gruesome act
 
#61
#61
I really don't see how some of you aren't seeing the bigger picture on this. I don't give a **** about some dick measuring contest between the state rights folks and the feds. I care about US citizens being given consulate access overseas if they're arrested.
 
#62
#62
IPorange said:
I really don't see how some of you aren't seeing the bigger picture on this. I don't give a **** about some dick measuring contest between the state rights folks and the feds. I care about US citizens being given consulate access overseas if they're arrested.
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I simply don't think that this has any bearing on how our citizens are treated....but I do agree that this journalist tries like heck to make us believe it.
 
#63
#63
Lexvol said:
I simply don't think that this has any bearing on how our citizens are treated....but I do agree that this journalist tries like heck to make us believe it.
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It is one of those things where even if it does, many will deny any connection.

From an outsider perspective, this is us not honoring a signed treaty. That won't be good. Other countries don't give a **** that Texas is too much of a bad-ass to lose face to the federal government if it doesn't have to.
 
#64
#64
IPorange said:
It is one of those things where even if it does, many will deny any connection.

From an outsider perspective, this is us not honoring a signed treaty. That won't be good. Other countries don't give a **** that Texas is too much of a bad-ass to lose face to the federal government if it doesn't have to.
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If he had asked and was denied I'd agree. Otherwise this is nothing more than political grandstanding on both sides.
 
#65
#65
IPorange said:
I really don't see how some of you aren't seeing the bigger picture on this. I don't give a **** about some dick measuring contest between the state rights folks and the feds. I care about US citizens being given consulate access overseas if they're arrested.
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I agree in principle but I'm not sure the facts of THIS case paint the bigger picture you are presenting.

I'll see if I can dig it up but there is legit question as to whether or not the law even applies in this case. So, we may be getting into a situation where we make things worse by making a big deal out of something that wasn't even a violation of the law (regardless of the "state" part).
 
#68
#68
IPorange said:
I really don't see how some of you aren't seeing the bigger picture on this. I don't give a **** about some dick measuring contest between the state rights folks and the feds. I care about US citizens being given consulate access overseas if they're arrested.
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To me it's not about states rights vs federal government. It's about national sovereignty.
 
#70
#70
KiffinKiller said:
Even so, you know we would be raising a stink if this were our citizen in another country.

By we, I mean our government.
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Truly and honestly... if one of our citizens requested to speak to the consulate or embassy and was denied then I would be upset. If they made no such request then I wouldn't.
 
#72
#72
utvolpj said:
it doesn't put anyone at risk until they are denied after requesting contact with the consulate
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I agree with your opinion, but I have to admit there is some potential for disaster. Like what if it's a country with a much quicker execution process? They can just say they convicted the person and be done with it.
utvolpj said:
if the process in their country is similar to ours and he was convicted then I won't care one bit. It was a gruesome act
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utvolpj said:
they also do not have the court system we do. Start there and then we'll worry about the smaller details
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I was thinking that, but I feel like that reasoning may not carry much weight in other situations, despite the fact that it's a reasonable argument. They can just claim they found him guilty despite what we say.
 
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