Obama/Clinton state dept designates Israel as terrorist sponsor.

#76
#76
Weezy said:
Jewbaccah is the other extreme to the all teachers are libs crowd. By that I mean, he cannot intellectually make his point (similar to other teachers I've crossed in my day, just the other side of the aisle). Instead he just screams you are wrong by making general statements of "fools will be fools" without making an argument at all.

Point - TRUT
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Fools will be fools, there is no aruging that point
woozy, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
#77
#77
Funny, the silence (heck, even GS's post is picture-less) in here since I posted excerpts from an article...
 
#79
#79
IPorange said:
I'm sure Jewbacca just hasn't seen it yet. I'd wager he'll have a response.
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I posted it at 5:10pm; Jewbaccah's last activity on VN was at 7:15pm. I think he is shocked that I called his bluff and now is trying to figure out how to discredit the information I referenced.

Fortunately, I have Aces up my sleeves.
 
#82
#82
therealUT said:
Simply because I direct you to actual books rather than blogs and/or Israeli sites (as you and GS tend to do), does not mean that what I am posting are half-truths. Read what I suggested, and for your edification, here is a particularly damning selection of text regarding the Israeli War of Independence:



As was stated earlier, the Israeli's built a clandestine force when they could not have a conventional army; just as today, the Palestinians have a clandestine force when they are not allowed a conventional army.



Is this sounding familiar, yet?



Arab sections? In Israel? This cannot be so!!!



Hmm...interesting, yes?



So, after the war was over, Israel bombed Cairo simply for a psychological victory...does this sound like terrorism to anyone else?



Same could be said of the infiltration today.



Israel still operates off of this model and uses the most minor incidents to invade Palestine and Lebanon with their armor, effectively causing massive amounts of civilian casualties.
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Oh My G-d...and people here think this is footnoting and citing primary sources...more of same bro. I was on TOS in deep thought with important matters. IP understands the gravity of these matters.
 
#83
#83
You guys both show a little hatred/bitterness so why don't you just leave it at that. You're bickering like a couple of muslims and jews.
 
#84
#84
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#85
#85
therealUT said:
You are correct; I forgot to cite my source for that article:

Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Israel's War of Independence (1947 - 1949)

Is that an Israeli Government site???
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You have lost all credibility there is half a sentence from that site...the clandestine forces reference but not the ending which you altered...it was referring to the secret stash of weapons in crete...and the training they did without weapons in preparation for the coming invasion. Are you even sober?

Although British restrictions, searches and detentions made the building of a clandestine force - with armor and artillery, air and sea power - well-nigh impossible, Ben-Gurion decided early on that this was the decisive task: to build up a force in preparation for an assault by the regular armies of the Arab countries, which the yishuv would have to face alone, without outside help.
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#87
#87
Jewbaccah said:
You have lost all credibility there is half a sentence from that site...the clandestine forces reference but not the ending which you altered...it was referring to the secret stash of weapons in crete...and the training they did without weapons in preparation for the coming invasion. Are you even sober?
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I did not alter any ending. I left out part of it, which matters not to my point. Point is, Israel built a clandestine force because the world would not allow them regulars; Palestine now has a clandestine force because the world will not allow them regulars. I made this clear in my remark following the quote.
 
#88
#88
therealUT said:
I did not alter any ending. I left out part of it, which matters not to my point. Point is, Israel built a clandestine force because the world would not allow them regulars; Palestine now has a clandestine force because the world will not allow them regulars. I made this clear in my remark following the quote.
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Do I need to say anything? Is it all about your point or the truth?
 
#90
#90
Jewbaccah said:
Do I need to say anything? Is it all about your point or the truth?
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The truth is that Ben Gurion built a clandestine force against in the face of world opposition in order to fight a "would-be" enemy (an enemy that had yet to materialize). Palestine has a clandestine force to fight an actual enemy; an enemy that has made offensives into Palestine.

The most damning thing about this article is by the very fact that this is what is on the IMFA site, one can easily presume that this is the best light that the Israelis can shine on the situation; a light that includes a postwar terrorist attack on Cairo.
 
#91
#91
His original point was articulated that Israel gets some kind of help in its creation due to some feeling of pity...he cited a source which clearly shows they did not from USA or the British. The opposite is in fact true. So where to we go now that he has no legs on this front?

He seems to be saying because Israel created a clandestine army to defend itself from an invading army to land that was rightfully and legally Israel's according to the UN (remember IP you have a stated opinion on obeying UN laws and other treaties), it then justifies the so called Palestinians to create a clandestine army to attack Israel for the purpose of? I mean Israel does not want Gaza and has offered the West Bank back..the Palestinians want Jerusalem though and that is not going to happen. In fact, they have no threat of invasion at all. There is little to no similarities here in justification. He is altering the facts to suit his purpose, if you scroll back in this thread, I said and have been proven correct that this is what his hate would drive him to do. The fact is Israel is not some American project nor has it been let to survive by America. And is legally and morally justified in its position. Its tactics of late may be harsh but all involved are fed up with the situation i.e. living next to some pyscho Muslims.

Sometimes we see what we want to see instead of seeing the truth...

And there is nothing damning about that article. He either has limited reading comprehension or refuses to see the truth.
 
#92
#92
Jewbaccah said:
His original point was articulated that Israel gets some kind of help in its creation due to some feeling of pity...he cited a source which clearly shows they did not from USA or the British. The opposite is in fact true. So where to we go now that he has no legs on this front?
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What? How do you think Jews ended up in the Holy Land after WWII? You don't think Western Powers were involved? Why do you think the British had apparent authority over the transplanted Jews?
 
#93
#93
Jewbaccah said:
He seems to be saying because Israel created a clandestine army to defend itself from an invading army to land that was rightfully and legally Israel's according to the UN (remember IP you have a stated opinion on obeying UN laws and other treaties), it then justifies the so called Palestinians to create a clandestine army to attack Israel for the purpose of?
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1) you're missing the point.

2) Do you want to review what the UN has passed regarding Israel and Palestine? It isn't going to paint a rosy picture.
 
#94
#94
I don't know about the "no threat of invasion," bit either. It seems like I recall Israeli tanks entering Palestinian territory any time they feel the military need for it.

It isn't a moral judgement for me to state as fact that Israel completely dictates terms to Palestine militarily. I think that qualifies as being militarily threatened by invasion.
 
#95
#95
He said the US of A he did not say the UN. So in this case IP even though the UN agreed to it...it is not valid but in the case of rapist murdering POS we should bow down? Just wow? I never said they received no support in their foundations just not from us as a government. Donations from Jews in America ok I am on board...Donations from France on board again...they essentially sold us at bargain prices the left over German weapons to some extent. What does this have to do with his premise or the justification for murdering and terrorist activity by the muslims?
 
#96
#96
IPorange said:
I don't know about the "no threat of invasion," bit either. It seems like I recall Israeli tanks entering Palestinian territory any time they feel the military need for it.

It isn't a moral judgement for me to state as fact that Israel completely dictates terms to Palestine militarily. I think that qualifies as being militarily threatened by invasion.
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Do you know what they were doing to have tanks come into their area? Do you know what they found? I mean they have no need to invade us do they? If they are so meek why not just build some resorts in gaza instead of just buying killing instruments?
 
#97
#97
Also, stay focused we were discussing Israel's creation. I guess we will cover its entire history now.
 
#98
#98
I feel like your exact position keeps changing, Jewbacca... Do you not think Western governments were involved in the creation of Israel? Because that is what it sounds like you are saying, and that makes no sense to me.
 
#99
#99
I do I do think they were...but the USA beyond some support in the UN did not do so much. It is matter of what type of support are we talking about and when? In 1948 it was mostly Euro support....later the USA as a government got more heavily involved. In the end though, it is Jewish soldiers not ours and not British ones that did the heavy lifting. The Jews in 1948 were clearly on the right side of the law and the Muslims were not. Today, the UN as an entity has changed. I am not the one that thinks we should always do what the UN says..you are...but maybe that does not work for you now? It works for you I bet when the UN says we have no right to defend ourselves. It is all about what you want to be true not any actual truth. It is like a song on repeat.
 
#100
#100
You want to pretend like I'm inconsistent. That's your prerogative. But to be clear:

1) I never said we should ALWAYS do what the UN says. I said we should honor our treaties, or get out of them, or not sign them if can't.

2) Why was Israel in the right then because of the UN, but is not wrong because of the UN now?

You're actually the one who is trying to have it both ways.
 
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