Obama wants driver's licneses for illegals

#26
#26
therealUT said:
Ok, then, what is your issue with people who want to come to a country that advertises itself as the beacon of liberty and freedom in order to work and earn money?
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My advice to them would be:

Do so in the appropriate manner and have your children become well versed in the English language before they attend public school.
 
#27
#27
JZVOL said:
Now I understand. We should learn the language of people breaking the law. I think it's incredibly pathetic that we should alter our way of life for people breaking the law. Why should I learn a language of people who technically don't exist in this country?
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Because whether you like it or not, Mexico is our only neighbor that doesn't use English as their primary language (most all French Canadians can speak English). That being the case, wouldn't you want to be able to converse with your neighbors?
utvolpj said:
there is a correct way to go about it. Sneaking across the border and using stolen/forged documents is not it.
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You know as well as I do that there is not a reasonable way to get into this country legally in order to take some mundane, low wage job.
 
#28
#28
allvol123 said:
Exactly, RealUT does a nice job of framing his question there. It is as if it is impossible or completely unallowable to come here legally.
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Currently to attain a work visa from the US, you have to have a job lined up (the employer is in effect holding a position for you) and then go through the 9-36 month process of being approved (9 months would be the norm for a highly skilled, professional position.)

How many employers in the construction and agricultural industries are going to hold a minimum wage position for three years?
 
#29
#29
mundane? low wage?


And thats bad? wtf realut? I guess the booming drug cartel down there that is flourishing wasnt hiring?

Hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens would love nothing more than some min wage job here in the states inorder to escape that country.
 
#30
#30
therealUT said:
You know as well as I do that there is not a reasonable way to get into this country legally in order to take some mundane, low wage job.
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I never claimed it was a great system but there is one in place. The infrastructure is just not in place to deal with 10's of thousands of people and their needs. Why is the solution bringing them all here rather than helping their own country care for them?
 
#31
#31
TXVOL07 said:
[/b]


And thats bad? wtf realut? I guess the booming drug cartel down there that is flourishing wasnt hiring?

Hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens would love nothing more than some min wage job here in the states inorder to escape that country.
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You are in know way going to get me to be outraged by any kind of reference to drug cartels. I could care less if narcotics find their way in to this country. That being so, over 90% of the illegal immigrants in America earn their pay checks outside of any drug trafficking realm.

Also, what is wrong with them wanting to escape Mexico and enjoy the liberties of the US?
 
#32
#32
bingo pj but then you step back into the "America is big brother to everyone" conversation.
 
#33
#33
therealUT said:
Currently to attain a work visa from the US, you have to have a job lined up (the employer is in effect holding a position for you) and then go through the 9-36 month process of being approved (9 months would be the norm for a highly skilled, professional position.)

How many employers in the construction and agricultural industries are going to hold a minimum wage position for three years?
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Is applying for citizenship the same wait as for the work visa? Either way, it does not matter. If it is a 9-36 month wait, once the first 9-36 months are up there will be a continuous supply in the supply chain and there will be no wait. Immigration is no doubt needed. The idea that it can't be done in an orderly and proper manner is ridiculous.
 
#34
#34
TXVOL07 said:
bingo pj but then you step back into the "America is big brother to everyone" conversation.
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there are ways to help without acting like that. Unfortunately the people smart enough to figure it out are not the ones in public service.
 
#35
#35
therealUT said:
I do feel that the underlying problem with immigration is that most Americans do not want to have to learn a second language in order to communicate with other people who reside in America. I think this is incredibly pathetic. The United States of America is the only first world country in which its middle class and above are vastly monolingual. Sounds like a personal problem to me.
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there is no rational reason why i need to know another language rather than english. If it was beneficial to me I would speak other languages. It isn't.

and i've been all over the world and i've been to many a place where only the local language was spoken. In osaka for instance almost no one spoke english. The only places that i've been to where people spoke fluently in other languages it was out of need, either because there were a lot of tourists or because that was the language of business.
 
#36
#36
therealUT said:
Also, what is wrong with them wanting to escape Mexico and enjoy the liberties of the US?
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Absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. It we be even better if they had these liberties in Mexico. It would be much more ideal for people to be born into a country that they didn't feel they had to "escape" from.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
You are in know way going to get me to be outraged by any kind of reference to drug cartels. I could care less if narcotics find their way in to this country. That being so, over 90% of the illegal immigrants in America earn their pay checks outside of any drug trafficking realm.

Also, what is wrong with them wanting to escape Mexico and enjoy the liberties of the US?
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They are overwhelming the educators in public schools because their kids dont speak english. See NCLB for further details. They are causing a huge burden on cities and counties due to the over use of public service industries. The crime rate has increased in Texas drastically espeacially in the southern part of the state due to an influx of Mexican drug gangs and territorial battles. The population has increased along with the alarming rate of teen pregnancy due to immigrant teens having children. They have them because they are uneducated, ill equiped to pay for it, and or are of the understanding that aid groups such as WIC will take on the burden.

We inevitably pay for all of the above mentioned in one way or another. Need I continue, because I can?
 
#38
#38
allvol123 said:
Absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. It we be even better if they had these liberties in Mexico. It would be much more ideal for people to be born into a country that they didn't feel they had to "escape" from.
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Like Miami?:)
 
#39
#39
allvol123 said:
Is applying for citizenship the same wait as for the work visa? Either way, it does not matter. If it is a 9-36 month wait, once the first 9-36 months are up there will be a continuous supply in the supply chain and there will be no wait. Immigration is no doubt needed. The idea that it can't be done in an orderly and proper manner is ridiculous.
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Hey, if you actually believe our economic system can take a 3 year depression...go for it.

However, in that three years span, most construction companies would go out of business, as well as most chicken, cattle, and pork processors. The few that stayed alive would push prices through the roof. In turn, you probably would not be able to afford meat at the grocery store, which would raise the demand on soy products, grains, and vegetables, hence raising their prices. The middle class and below in America would be struggling to eat, and the next president would then probably institute tax rates of 60-90% (FDR?!?!) on the highest income brackets.

So, if that is your dream for America, then push it hard. Personally, I would rather have food on the table and put up the Spanish words on my American products as opposed to going hungry.
 
#41
#41
There was a story about all the illegals on TV and about why it has gotten worse. The theory is that Bill Clinton had made it much tougher to get into the country once he got into office. Before he was President many illegals would cross the border during the day and work then return home. Because Clinton made it tougher to get in with more walls the illegals started to stay once they got here. Clinton only sealed up the easier areas to get in but there are places, although tough, for them to enter. This is what sparked the idea of allowing the illegals to come in for work and allowing them to leave as Bush had favored.
 
#42
#42
TXVOL07 said:
They are overwhelming the educators in public schools because their kids dont speak english. They are causing a huge burden on cities and counties due to the over use of public service industries. The crime rate has increased in Texas drastically espeacially in the southern part of the state due to an influx of Mexican drug gangs and territorial battles. The population has increased along with the alarming rate of teen pregnancy due to immigrant teens having children. They have them because they are uneducated, ill equiped to pay for it, and or are of the understanding that aid groups such as WIC will take on the burden.

We inevitably pay for all of the above mentioned in one way or another. Need I continue, because I can?
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Negative. Mexicans pay more income tax into the system then equivalent earners that are American citizens.

As for the concern of burdening educators, push your representatives for vouchers and send your children to private schools.
 
#43
#43
therealUT said:
Hey, if you actually believe our economic system can take a 3 year depression...go for it.

However, in that three years span, most construction companies would go out of business, as well as most chicken, cattle, and pork processors. The few that stayed alive would push prices through the roof. In turn, you probably would not be able to afford meat at the grocery store, which would raise the demand on soy products, grains, and vegetables, hence raising their prices. The middle class and below in America would be struggling to eat, and the next president would then probably institute tax rates of 60-90% (FDR?!?!) on the highest income brackets.

So, if that is your dream for America, then push it hard. Personally, I would rather have food on the table and put up the Spanish words on my American products as opposed to going hungry.
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sorry this argument doesn't hold weight. maybe 30 years ago it did, but right now there are far more illegal immigrants than jobs. and there are only more flooding across the border. closing the border will only mean i higher % of those already here will be employed, thus decreasing crime and increasing tax revenues.
 
#44
#44
therealUT said:
Negative. Mexicans pay more income tax into the system then equivalent earners that are American citizens.

As for the concern of burdening educators, push your representatives for vouchers and send your children to private schools.
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check and once I have them...check.

You had no idea I was a public school teacher did you?
 
#45
#45
therealUT said:
Hey, if you actually believe our economic system can take a 3 year depression...go for it.

However, in that three years span, most construction companies would go out of business, as well as most chicken, cattle, and pork processors. The few that stayed alive would push prices through the roof. In turn, you probably would not be able to afford meat at the grocery store, which would raise the demand on soy products, grains, and vegetables, hence raising their prices. The middle class and below in America would be struggling to eat, and the next president would then probably institute tax rates of 60-90% (FDR?!?!) on the highest income brackets.

So, if that is your dream for America, then push it hard. Personally, I would rather have food on the table and put up the Spanish words on my American products as opposed to going hungry.
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Thanks for the "sky is falling" message.

I don't need to push for anything, my day to day life is fine.

We were having a discussion on why people are for or against illegal immigration. If you need to resort to the "sky would fall" without it, that is your right.
 
#46
#46
therealUT said:
Negative. Mexicans pay more income tax into the system then equivalent earners that are American citizens.
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ridiculous. they all pay the same % of sales tax and income tax (if they pay any income tax which is rare) and they send home a large % of the money they earn to mexico compared to zero of the average low wage american.
 
#48
#48
droski said:
sorry this argument doesn't hold weight. maybe 30 years ago it did, but right now there are far more illegal immigrants than jobs. and there are only more flooding across the border. closing the border will only mean i higher % of those already here will be employed, thus decreasing crime and increasing tax revenues.
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I have personally consulted with the head of the Texas Cattle Feeders Association, the National Cattle Feeders Association, and the National American Millers Association, and this argument absolutely holds weight today. The beef, chicken, pork, soy bean, and grain industries in America would be ravaged by a serious crackdown on "illegal immigrants."
 
#49
#49
droski said:
ridiculous. they all pay the same % of sales tax and income tax (if they pay any income tax which is rare) and they send home a large % of the money they earn to mexico compared to zero of the average low wage american.
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They most definitely pay income tax. However, except for the extremely savvy "illegal immigrants" they do not file tax returns.
 
#50
#50
No argument there. Americans are lazy typically. At least the next several generation are. Hard work is all the immigrants know. Thats why building that wall is not a solution imo. Who in the hell are they going to get to build it?

The point is that we have come down this road for too long and now we are desperately looking for a solution. This issue has been ignored for a while and unfortunately its going to take more than a wall, some protests and a few bills passed to solve it. Obama cant fix it any more than Bush could.
 
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