Obamacare already having effects

#126
#126
lawgator1 said:
The real problem right now -- even according to many conservatives -- is that the word "compromise" in the ranks of the GOP labels you a RINO. And they put someone up against you to run you out if you dare to defy their orders not to give this president any success, whatsoever.

Posturing is one thing. But what is going on right now in the House is what the real problem is to getting anything done and curing these uncertainty problems you guys are talking about.
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The real problem is systemic growth of government spending. Acquiescence to more spending, thinly veiled as compromise, isn't a solution to anything.

Your effort to pretend that obstructionism is halting our coming to meaningful solutions is absurd. We can't even get the administration to provide a freaking budget and senate, under D control, willfully ignores the problem. Stop being ridiculous. Guys like you perpetuate this broken two party system we have and empower the idiots we have sitting in the halls of congress.
 
#127
#127
Orlando Vol said:
I use the phrase "lesser of 2 evils" because that's commonly thrown out... I don't "really" mean it.

In this situation, I'm a firm Obama supporter. I vote R, D and I in my local and state elections all the time. Raised "republican", switched to Dem 5 years ago due to being fed up with fundamentalist religion completely taking over my former party. ;)

If we had open primaries here in FL, I'd be an (I)...
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:eek:lol:

Priorities man.

I also am not a Republican due to social issues, well, partly anyways.

If social issues are what is driving you, you have lost all perspective of the big picture.
 
#128
#128
lawgator1 said:
The real problem right now -- even according to many conservatives -- is that the word "compromise" in the ranks of the GOP labels you a RINO. And they put someone up against you to run you out if you dare to defy their orders not to give this president any success, whatsoever.

Posturing is one thing. But what is going on right now in the House is what the real problem is to getting anything done and curing these uncertainty problems you guys are talking about.
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That's right. Only the conservatives are anti-compromise.

The real problem right now is that neither side is willing to have a backbone and actually stand for something important. Both sides know that we have a massive spending problem that is the most immediate threat to our country right now and for the foreseeable future. Neither side wants to take a true stand because they feel it will be political suicide.

The Democratic Senate has yet to produce a budget at anytime in the past 3 years, 3 months, 12 days.

Let's start with real proposals from both sides before we even begin to think about "compromise" issues.
 
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#129
#129
The real problem is that nobody in the freaking world knows what is going to happen with any of this and there is a complete an thorough war of dis-information on both sides. Nobody knows what the hell Obamacare will cost. Nobody. And nobody knows what the costs would have been to not reform healtcare.

There are a hell of a lot of opinions, ideas, hunches, and outright lies coming out of Washington, making it impossible for anyone to make any rational decision about any candidate or policy.

Makes me sick.
 
#130
#130
TruthIsOutThere said:
The real problem is that nobody in the freaking world knows what is going to happen with any of this and there is a complete an thorough war of dis-information on both sides. Nobody knows what the hell Obamacare will cost. Nobody. And nobody knows what the costs would have been to not reform healtcare.

There are a hell of a lot of opinions, ideas, hunches, and outright lies coming out of Washington, making it impossible for anyone to make any rational decision about any candidate or policy.

Makes me sick.
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that tends to happen when you pass country changing bills without anyone having read or evaluated it. There are some facts around it- like it's going to be expensive
 
#131
#131
utvolpj said:
that tends to happen when you pass country changing bills without anyone having read or evaluated it. There are some facts around it- like it's going to be expensive
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Like The Patriot Act? (Which apparently none of legislators actually read)
Like The Aviation and Transportation Security Act?
 
#133
#133
TruthIsOutThere said:
The real problem is that nobody in the freaking world knows what is going to happen with any of this and there is a complete an thorough war of dis-information on both sides. Nobody knows what the hell Obamacare will cost. Nobody. And nobody knows what the costs would have been to not reform healtcare.

There are a hell of a lot of opinions, ideas, hunches, and outright lies coming out of Washington, making it impossible for anyone to make any rational decision about any candidate or policy.

Makes me sick.
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hold up. We passed this silly pile of garbage without all the info but somehow bought the bullshiz about tax neutrality. Now we want to own up to our lack of knowledge because CEOs are coming out and saying the lack of information is hurting us and this thing isn't remotely tax neutral and that helps us absolve responsibility for the idiots who put it in place. I'm not for absolving anyone who voted yes after the admission that the freaking thing wasn't yet written. Screw everyone involved. They have no business being our representatives.
 
#134
#134
utvolpj said:
are you making the (incorrect) assumption that I am a fan of those as well?
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besides, some of the more troubling aspects of the Patriot Act can be avoided by simply not engaging in certain activities such as flying or taking incoming calls from Syria.

obamacare, once fully in place, can not be avoided
 
#135
#135
BigPapaVol said:
hold up. We passed this silly pile of garbage without all the info but somehow bought the bullshiz about tax neutrality. Now we want to own up to our lack of knowledge because CEOs are coming out and saying the lack of information is hurting us and this thing isn't remotely tax neutral and that helps us absolve responsibility for the idiots who put it in place. I'm not for absolving anyone who voted yes after the admission that the freaking thing wasn't yet written. Screw everyone involved. They have no business being our representatives.
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I would agree with you but this goes FAR beyond the ACA. There is an inherent structrual problem in congress. 99% of bills aren't read, studied, or vetted before being up to vote. And any vetting that does happen is far from neutral.
 
#136
#136
MG1968 said:
besides, some of the more troubling aspects of the Patriot Act can be avoided by simply not engaging in certain activities such as flying or taking incoming calls from Syria.

obamacare, once fully in place, can not be avoided
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THis is just silly. Both bills suck. Everything passed by congress is a joke...

I'm probably in trouble under the patriot act for typing that.
 
#137
#137
TruthIsOutThere said:
I would agree with you but this goes FAR beyond the ACA. There is an inherent structrual problem in congress. 99% of bills aren't read, studied, or vetted before being up to vote. And any vetting that does happen is far from neutral.
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I do think you are wrong on that point. The bills are read and studied by the intrest groups that write them. Very few bills are written by members of congress.
 
#140
#140
Oops: Florida Republican Forgets To Remove ALEC Mission Statement From Boilerplate Anti-Tax Bill | ThinkProgress

ALECMODELBILLFAIL-e1328208594690.jpg
 
#145
#145
Fact is, most legislation is actually written by special interest groups and their lobbyists, then handed to the legislators to submit as sponsored by them. Not surprising. A little embarrassing? Maybe so, but not remarkable really.
 
#146
#146
lawgator1 said:
Fact is, most legislation is actually written by special interest groups and their lobbyists, then handed to the legislators to submit as sponsored by them. Not surprising. A little embarrassing? Maybe so, but not remarkable really.
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to know what's in the bill, you have to pass the bill

nice standard, nancy
 
#147
#147
lawgator1 said:
Fact is, most legislation is actually written by special interest groups and their lobbyists, then handed to the legislators to submit as sponsored by them. Not surprising. A little embarrassing? Maybe so, but not remarkable really.
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I agree it is an embarrasment, I hope this is not what the founders envisioned. Term limits, or revolution, the only real fixes.
 
#148
#148
The point is, in the above case... The rep who offered up the bill forgot to delete the intro which left the name of the special interest group in it (ALEC).

That doesn't trouble you for either of these reasons?

1. A Bill was most certainly written entirely by someone that you didn't elect.

2. A rep is too stupid to make sure the above didn't happen.
 
#149
#149
Orlando Vol said:
Even if they write a bill in FULL and then hand it to a representative to push in congress as payback for campaign contributions?
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The tone of my statement in my mind didn't come out I guess -

I was meaning I don't care what they do - they all need to take a long walk off a short pier.
 
#150
#150
MG1968 said:
to know what's in the bill, you have to pass the bill

nice standard, nancy
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I'm referring to the above, where the GOP congressman took some form of platform resolution by a conservative organization and forgot to take out their name and insert that the Congress was resolved. The implication was that the fellow got the language from that outfit and just submitted it word for word.

I'm saying that goes on all the time. They all do that. Par for the course. Etc. In other words, the GOP fellow just made what amounts to a clerical mistake. No big deal.

In your zeal to attack everything I say, you missed the point that I was defending the GOP lawmaker.
 
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