Obamacare already having effects

#76
#76
TruthIsOutThere said:
There is an example floating around where a small business may not hire their 50th employee because of the ACA. Ok, if a business want's to quit growing due to a law, doesn't that leave room for another business to enter the market?
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Make the 49 work harder/longer, in our case, split the installation, remediation and maintenance into 3 different companies.

Buisness will not stop growing, they will just find ways around it, it's the employee who gets hurt.
 
#77
#77
Look, I know I'm in a tiny minority of the population.

I'm a 33-year old, college educated professional, married to another with a household income near $200k/yr. We own 2 properties, have over $250k saved for retirement and another $50k in the market.

I work for a large corporation, and have **FREE** healthcare provided to me by my employer...

And yet, I still believe that my fellow Americans should have access to preventative healthcare, shouldn't have their coverage dropped or limited due to pre-existing conditions, and SHOULDN'T DIE from a treatable disease.

Even if they have a crappy job at Papa Johns!

(Full Disclosure: I actually HAD a crappy job at PJs on the strip while I was at UT.) :)
 
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#78
#78
BigPapaVol said:
this suggests some sort of short term business cycle. That suggestion is wrong. The analogy is also a very tough fit. Some businesses evolve and some die. The replacement piece is the problem. Identifying new markets doesn't just happen. It damn sure doesn't happen without a truckload of capital investment.
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I guess I'm thinking a bit longer term.
 
#79
#79
TruthIsOutThere said:
So, it comes back to the question - what do they do with their money then? Just sit on it and make 0? I understand risk, but is ACA really the biggest cause of the risk? I can think of quite a few other things.

Is your basic argumen that the ACA is killing investment, or that there are just too many laws/regs (period) that are killing it. WIth the burning the candle at both ends analogy, it sound like the latter and that you just see the ACA as adding to the pile. Am I right?
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Uncertainty around the actual cost is an enormous risk. Nobody sits on it and makes 0, but it's better parked on the sideline (until inflation gets out of hand), than put to work in an upside down risk return proposition.

I'm not arguing that ACA is killing investment. I'm arguing that it exacerbates the problem, while our empty suit in chief says his administration is bending over backwards to create jobs. He's either dumber than his bad transcripts imply, or he's a straight up liar or both.

My issue is that the government needs a full scale overhaul in the way it spends money and it starts in congress. ACA is a symptom of a massive problem. As a standalone, ACA is a disaster waiting to happen because it's going to be administered by the worst administrator in the world, it will be the most expensive and the care will erode to the quality of military hospitals in a hurry. We all lose, but pay more for it.
 
#81
#81
hog88 said:
Make the 49 work harder/longer, in our case, split the installation, remediation and maintenance into 3 different companies.

Buisness will not stop growing, they will just find ways around it, it's the employee who gets hurt.
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But there has to be a maximum right? A maximum output for 49 employees? Maybe business get more "efficient" which I understand may not be ideal for employees - but ultimately they have to please the consumer by offering the promised level of product or service. If they do not - that opens the market.
 
#82
#82
So .10 for pizza and every other thing you will have to buy. Beer, chips, hookers, etc.
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#83
#83
Orlando Vol said:
Look, I know I'm in a tiny minority of the population.

I'm a 33-year old, college educated professional, married to another with a household income near $200k/yr. We own 2 properties, have over $250k saved for retirement and another $50k in the market.

I work for a large corporation, and have **FREE** healthcare provided to me by my employer...

And yet, I still believe that my fellow Americans should have access to preventative healthcare, shouldn't have their coverage dropped or limited due to pre-existing conditions, and SHOULDN'T DIE from a treatable disease.

Even if they have a crappy job at Papa Johns!
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How much longer can they afford that? I know another 15 to 20% bump in ours will force an employee contribution.

That will hurt some of our low end people.
 
#84
#84
TruthIsOutThere said:
But there has to be a maximum right? A maximum output for 49 employees? Maybe business get more "efficient" which I understand may not be ideal for employees - but ultimately they have to please the consumer by offering the promised level of product or service. If they do not - that opens the market.
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but the market gets smaller for every paycheck removed. That sweet little spiral doesn't have an end.
 
#85
#85
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not arguing that ACA is killing investment. I'm arguing that it exacerbates the problem QUOTE]

I accept this and agree that we need a complete overhaul.

Not sure one party can do it better than the other though.

I'm no fan of Obama, but I think the chance of Romney riding in on a white horse and saving the day is about zip as well.
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#86
#86
TruthIsOutThere said:
But there has to be a maximum right? A maximum output for 49 employees? Maybe business get more "efficient" which I understand may not be ideal for employees - but ultimately they have to please the consumer by offering the promised level of product or service. If they do not - that opens the market.
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Why do you think factories love robots?
 
#87
#87
BigPapaVol said:
but the market gets smaller for every paycheck removed. That sweet little spiral doesn't have an end.
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I can see this as a problem and accept this statement now that I realize you aren't specifically calling the ACA the cause of this.

We are in a very worriesome spot no dobut, but again, I tend to think this is going to last a while...
 
#90
#90
BigPapaVol said:
and it was oppressive. It was also the onset of our tax loophole problem.
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1944-1945 top rates 94%
1946-1947 top rates 86.5%
1948-1949 top rates 82.1%
1950 top rate 84.4%
1951-1964 top rate 91%


We had growth during those 20 years.

How ?
 
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#91
#91
Gramps said:
1944-1945 top rates 94%
1946-1947 top rates 86.5%
1948-1949 top rates 82.1%
1950 top rate 84.4%
1951-1964 top rate 91%


We had growth during those 20 years.

How?
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loopholes, industrial revolution, closed market. Many structural protections that no longer exist.
 
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#92
#92
There was a point where paying yourself as a CEO began to have diminishing returns...

It was wiser to invest in new capital, hire new employees (and pay THEM more), buy property, etc... ALL of which STIMULATE the economy.
 
#93
#93
TruthIsOutThere said:
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not arguing that ACA is killing investment. I'm arguing that it exacerbates the problem QUOTE]

I accept this and agree that we need a complete overhaul.

Not sure one party can do it better than the other though.

I'm no fan of Obama, but I think the chance of Romney riding in on a white horse and saving the day is about zip as well.
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agreed. Both candidates are doomed to failure without some way of overhauling congress and the way we choose it.
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#95
#95
Orlando Vol said:
There was a point where paying yourself as a CEO began to have diminishing returns...

It was wiser to invest in new capital, hire new employees (and pay THEM more), buy property, etc... ALL of which STIMULATE the economy.
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there is a solution in this comment, but vilifying the wealthy as the root of all evil isn't it.

Odd that you're now talking about some means of encouraging investment rather than pissing away money by handing it to the most costly organization in the world.
 
#97
#97
Orlando Vol said:
I wasn't aware that Obama created the ethanol requirements? How about you go lobby your congressman in the republican controlled congress to push for their elimination? :eek:lol:
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Republican-controlled Congress???

The Republicans must have taken over while I wasn't looking.
 
#98
#98
Orlando Vol said:
So, am I to assume the inverse -- that if we get what Romney wants, and corporate taxes are cut to almost nothing-- Pizza and all other goods will have their prices lowered as a result? :lolabove:
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You obviously have no money smarts. You are as bad in the politics forum as the ticket forum
 
#99
#99
Lower the minimum wage rate so businesses can higher more. This allows teenagers to get jobs this training them in the workforce.

Cut welfare benefits and mandate proof that they are actually search. Force them to take a job if offered one. If job pays less than unemploymrnt benefit they keep difference but the wage earned no longer comes off employers unemployment.

deregulate red tape and state minimum franchise taxes such as ca which is insane.

Make it easier to get a sbl for start ups.

give a tax incentive for businesses who do not offshore.

lower the capital gains ten percent for related income if income is less than one hundred k per year.

Etc etc
 
#100
#100
govols09 said:
You obviously have no money smarts. You are as bad in the politics forum as the ticket forum
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That's funny... You tried lowballing me over and over, and I ended up selling them for what I wanted.

Who's smarter, me who got twice what you were "offering" or you who has no tickets? ;)
 
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