Obama's Pastor: damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

#76
#76
GAVol said:
What I don't get is how on Earth the Obama campaign didn't get this out of the way on day 1 of the campaign. They had to know that it would be a problem.
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Like I said earlier, if he would have done this, he would be considered a sellout and a Uncle Tom that gave in to white media pressure. That is why the two of them at the beginning realized that Obama would have to give him some lip service at some point in the campaign without any hard feelings being felt by either side.
 
#78
#78
MontereyVol said:
I wouldn't go so far as to call this guy a campaign adviser in the sense it sounds like he was actually influencing the main campaign. Really I just think this is stupid, if a Catholic member was gong to mass every Sunday their whole life and thought the world of their preacher, how much do you think they know about the fathers free time. It has been stated the Rev. did not preach this particular stuff during his Sunday sermons. If he did, I find it hard to believe that Obama an elected official for 14 years is just now getting hammered for this stuff.
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Are you honestly trying to say that Obama knew nothing of "Reverend" Wright's political views? Pass that stuff you are smoking around to all of us, please.

Not only do I, as well as everyone I know who actually takes an active interest in their faith, get to know my Priest (or minister) on a personal level, I get to know them well enough to fully comprehend where they stand on issues.

However, pretending that Obama did not have a more personal relationship with Wright (the personal relationship is proven) it is still Obama's fault for not doing a little background check...THIS GUY HAS BEEN SELLING HIS RADICAL SERMONS ON VIDEO FOR YEARS, as well as selling writing books laced with his philosophy and outlook on the US. To plead a negligence of this magnitude is simply ridiculous....NEXT
 
#79
#79
therealUT said:
To plead a negligence of this magnitude is simply ridiculous....NEXT
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I agree. Obama is way too smart a guy to go on national TV and claim "I didn't know he said that."

I'd have a lot more respect for him if he just said "Yeah some of that stuff he said was out there and I disagree with it, but I chose to overlook it because I thought the good outweighed the bad." I'd still disagree with him, but at least he wouldn't look completely lame in his denial.
 
#80
#80
therealUT said:
Not only do I, as well as everyone I know who actually takes an active interest in their faith, get to know my Priest (or minister) on a personal level, I get to know them well enough to fully comprehend where they stand on issues.
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So your assuming that everyone who goes to church knows everything about their preacher, just because you have personally got to know your own? Being in the military I find it extremely surprising you think that way

However, pretending that Obama did not have a more personal relationship with Wright (the personal relationship is proven) it is still Obama's fault for not doing a little background check...THIS GUY HAS BEEN SELLING HIS RADICAL SERMONS ON VIDEO FOR YEARS, as well as selling writing books laced with his philosophy and outlook on the US. To plead a negligence of this magnitude is simply ridiculous....NEXT
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I have not "pretended" that Obama didn't know this guy's opinion, as a matter of fact I have read that he is well aware of it a long time ago. I just stated I don't think he believes in everything Wright says. I am only defending Obama's right to have a 'crazy uncle' figure that all the other candidates have. So now it is boiling down to whose 'crazy uncle' is craziest. Right now that honor goes to Wright.
 
#81
#81
MontereyVol said:
I am only defending Obama's right to have a 'crazy uncle' figure that all the other candidates have.
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The reality though is that I don't think most undecided voters are going to buy the "Crazy Uncle" defense after Obama has gone as far as to refer to Wright as his spiritual mentor.

And like I've posted earlier, Obama needs to stop insulting people's intelligence by telling people that he didn't know. It's not like it was a secret that Wright was espousing radical viewpoints.
 
#82
#82
MontereyVol said:
So your assuming that everyone who goes to church knows everything about their preacher, just because you have personally got to know your own? Being in the military I find it extremely surprising you think that way
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I make it a point to go out of my way to get to know those who are going to preach to me about how to live my life. I would assume that most responsible adults do the same.


MontereyVol said:
I have not "pretended" that Obama didn't know this guy's opinion, as a matter of fact I have read that he is well aware of it a long time ago. I just stated I don't think he believes in everything Wright says. I am only defending Obama's right to have a 'crazy uncle' figure that all the other candidates have. So now it is boiling down to whose 'crazy uncle' is craziest. Right now that honor goes to Wright.
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It is one thing to have a "crazy uncle" figure. It is totally different to make that person your mentor and adviser. I do not know if you are arguing for the sake of playing devil's advocate or if you are just living in a parallel world where denial is the norm. Obama's close connection with Wright certainly reflects on Obama's views and his judgment. If you do not believe that is relevant, especially to Obama's message of hope and complete lack of policy substance, than I am at a loss for words.
 
#83
#83
The fact is that we don't know how Obama views Wright and we probably never will. He needs to come out and convince people of where he stands on this issue.

I am not trying to play devils advocate, and you would sleep better at night knowing I do not live in a parallel world. I look at any issue from every possible position I can think of, something you do not seem to do. For all you know Obama could be playing lip service to Wright because his wife believes in him and he doesn't want her pissed.
 
#84
#84
People are getting demonized for using guilt by association as if it's a bad thing to point out who a Presidential candidate has chosen to hang out with.
 
#85
#85
Sarcasm?

I agree though, we should know who candidates hang out with. I am just taking the position that we should know more about the other two candidates. McCain, in my book, is almost untouchable here, Hillary on the other hand is the worst of the three.
 
#86
#86
MontereyVol, I would normally be right in there with you on this one. I usually like to spend a lot of time thinking about the different viewpoints someone can be coming from, their various motivations, and what the truth behind the truth might be.

However, on this one, you just can't call this guy a mentor and then name him an adviser when he is known to be saying these things. It isn't the same thing as a putting down other sexes or races or religions - as wrong as those are, you can tend to distance yourself from it ... this was vehemency spouted directly towards the very nation Barack wants to lead. It appears that it was fairly well known that he held these views, they had even talked about it...and Barack was just prepared to distance himself if it became an issue!?!

I haven't totally written him off because of this, but if he squeaks out of this without a lot of grief, then this country has really let the deniability thing go too far...


Edit: I'll also say that I usually try not to get too serious about these kinds of things because you can't really control what your supporters say..but that is more the case in something like the Geraldine Ferraro case...or name countless other examples where people say stupid things that get the candidate into trouble..this isn't the same thing.
 
#87
#87
MontereyVol said:
The fact is that we don't know how Obama views Wright and we probably never will. He needs to come out and convince people of where he stands on this issue.

I am not trying to play devils advocate, and you would sleep better at night knowing I do not live in a parallel world. I look at any issue from every possible position I can think of, something you do not seem to do. For all you know Obama could be playing lip service to Wright because his wife believes in him and he doesn't want her pissed.
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If Obama cannot make a rational, responsible decision because he is afraid of his wife's wrath, then we definitely do not need him in the White House.

Again, from which side of this thing do you want me to view from???
 
#88
#88
therealUT said:
If Obama cannot make a rational, responsible decision because he is afraid of his wife's wrath, then we definitely do not need him in the White House.

Again, from which side of this thing do you want me to view from???
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Afraid of his wife's wrath, you are blowing this out of proportion. All I said is he probably wouldn't want his wife pissed at him. As I am sure at some point you have caved in like all other men to keep your wife happy just so you could get something out of it.

Besides, he wouldn't be the first president scared of his wife.
 
#89
#89
Caving over where to eat or where to spend the Holidays is not caving over associating with a radical, anti-American, to the point where one makes that person their mentor and adviser.
 
#90
#90
TennTradition said:
MontereyVol, I would normally be right in there with you on this one. I usually like to spend a lot of time thinking about the different viewpoints someone can be coming from, their various motivations, and what the truth behind the truth might be.

However, on this one, you just can't call this guy a mentor and then name him an adviser when he is known to be saying these things. It isn't the same thing as a putting down other sexes or races or religions - as wrong as those are, you can tend to distance yourself from it ... this was vehemency spouted directly towards the very nation Barack wants to lead. It appears that it was fairly well known that he held these views, they had even talked about it...and Barack was just prepared to distance himself if it became an issue!?!

I haven't totally written him off because of this, but if he squeaks out of this without a lot of grief, then this country has really let the deniability thing go too far...


Edit: I'll also say that I usually try not to get too serious about these kinds of things because you can't really control what your supporters say..but that is more the case in something like the Geraldine Ferraro case...or name countless other examples where people say stupid things that get the candidate into trouble..this isn't the same thing.
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To tell the truth, I think Obama has screwed this one up already. There isn't much he can do now to alleviate peoples concerns. I am more interested from a clinical type view of why Wright thinks this way?

I guess why I don't feel like this is a huge issue is I know people who attend churches like the one Wright is at and don't carry it on in their normal lives. There does seem to be some kind of psychological disconnect there. Although a few do take the message to heart. So I am wondering which one Obama is.

I believe Obama's wife has kept Wright in the family so long. His wife has stated things similar to Wright's statements and it was her church she introduced to Barrack.

By the way, I voted for McCain :)
 
#91
#91
therealUT said:
Caving over where to eat or where to spend the Holidays is not caving over associating with a radical, anti-American, to the point where one makes that person their mentor and adviser.
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What if your wife wanted to join Code Pink?
 
#92
#92
If I were still married and that did happen, I would not support her in her endeavor. I certainly would not call on the leaders of the organization for any kind of advice.

Again, your defense of Obama's connection with Wright is completely irrational.
 
#93
#93
Ok, you Dems out there who were going to vote for BHO are you still voting that way?

Howard Dean bit the dust in the last election for getting a little over excited and now we have an insight into possibly the REAL views of this potential Presidential candidate and I'm wondering if this is going to sink him and I'm also wondering if this is coming too late to sink him.
 
#95
#95
therealUT said:
If I were still married and that did happen, I would not support her in her endeavor. I certainly would not call on the leaders of the organization for any kind of advice.

Again, your defense of Obama's connection with Wright is completely irrational.
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If you would have said "your just trying to spin this in Obama's favor" then I would have to somewhat agree. I am trying to get the story out of this and I am not satisfied with the media on this.

You stating my defense is irrational for trying to get the whole story, different viewpoints and not believing everything the mass media tells me is just plain idiotic.
 
#96
#96
Your different viewpoint appears to consist of "his wife runs his life." That is a fantastic quality in a presidential candidate. I understand that "behind every great man there is a strong woman" however, this is far from that.

If you provide a rational and logical alternative vantage point on this, then I will listen. Until then, goodnight.
 
#97
#97
therealUT said:
Your different viewpoint appears to consist of "his wife runs his life." That is a fantastic quality in a presidential candidate. I understand that "behind every great man there is a strong woman" however, this is far from that.

If you provide a rational and logical alternative vantage point on this, then I will listen. Until then, goodnight.
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That was a possible (out of many) scenario that you asked for, I presented, and you hung onto. That is not my viewpoint, My opinion or viewpoint would actually concern the media hype.

It's extremely hard to argue vantage points when someone has already made up their mind. Rationality gets thrown out the window and only some earth shaking revelation would cause that opinion to change and in this case I am sorry to say you probably wont get it from me. Keep watching the news though Armageddon might come :eek:hmy:. Have a nice night.
 
#98
#98
tim said:
If I'm wrong please correct me. But, isn't this supposed to be the Church of Christ? I grew up COC and went to a COC HS and we couldn't even dance much less say damn and make motions of a bj in church.
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Oh yeah, biiiiiiiiig difference between the United Church of Christ (Obama's church) and the autonomous churches of Christ.
 
#99
#99
I've heard some of the preacher's rants on the radio. I'll probably get slammed for saying this.

But I think what the pastor is trying to say is, the United States interventionist foreign policy has done more to promote terrorist attacks then prevent them. Which is what some of the presidential candidates, like Ron Paul, have been saying.

Unfortunately, he did it in an ugly, offensive manner. I'm not defending what he said, but if look past the offensive language and simply at the position, he's not that far removed from the libetarians.

Just because this is the opinion of your preacher, it doesnt necessarily make it your opinion as a member of his church. No more then you have the opinions of your doctor, barber, teacher, etc.
 
#100
#100
oklavol said:
I've heard some of the preacher's rants on the radio. I'll probably get slammed for saying this.

But I think what the pastor is trying to say is, the United States interventionist foreign policy has done more to promote terrorist attacks then prevent them. Which is what some of the presidential candidates, like Ron Paul, have been saying.

Unfortunately, he did it in an ugly, offensive manner. I'm not defending what he said, but if look past the offensive language and simply at the position, he's not that far removed from the libetarians.

Just because this is the opinion of your preacher, it doesnt necessarily make it your opinion as a member of his church. No more then you have the opinions of your doctor, barber, teacher, etc.
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If you were running for office and asked your barber to advise your campaign, are we supposed to ignore his opinions....even if you call him a mentor?
 
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