Obama's Pastor: damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

#101
#101
TennTradition said:
If you were running for office and asked your barber to advise your campaign, are we supposed to ignore his opinions....even if you call him a mentor?
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IMO a candidate should have to defend only his opinion. Not just in politics, but in general. Of course, it does say something about the candidate if he does consider him a political adviser. I thought he was only the minister at his church.
 
#102
#102
tim said:
If I'm wrong please correct me. But, isn't this supposed to be the Church of Christ? I grew up COC and went to a COC HS and we couldn't even dance much less say damn and make motions of a bj in church.
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I grew up COC too, and had the same impression you do.
 
#103
#103
oklavol said:
Just because this is the opinion of your preacher, it doesnt necessarily make it your opinion as a member of his church. No more then you have the opinions of your doctor, barber, teacher, etc.
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In my mind, that's not even the point. It's not the fact that he may or may not share the opinion of his Pastor. . . It's that he clearly condoned the viewpoint for 20 years and is only now rejecting it.
 
#104
#104
oklavol said:
IMO a candidate should have to defend only his opinion. Not just in politics, but in general. Of course, it does say something about the candidate if he does consider him a political adviser. I thought he was only the minister at his church.
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He has referred to him as a mentor and only this week made him step down from an advisory role to his campaign.
 
#105
#105
oklavol said:
But I think what the pastor is trying to say is, the United States interventionist foreign policy has done more to promote terrorist attacks then prevent them.
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Exactly how did our policy of "splendid isolationism" work out for us???

75% of the world loves us when we provide them with free food aid. Yet, whenever we step in to defend not only what is in the best interest of our nation but also what is in the best interest of 70-80% of the population of the country we are "intervening" in, the world decides to cast us out as a pariah.

The US is easily the least imperial superpower in recorded history. Yet, the world labels us as harsher than all other superpowers. Underneath all the rhetoric, there is absolutely no basis for this claim.

Simply put, our "interventionist foreign policy" has done more to increase the standard of living of those people whom we effect than any other factor in their lives.
 
#106
#106
therealUT said:
Exactly how did our policy of "splendid isolationism" work out for us???

75% of the world loves us when we provide them with free food aid. Yet, whenever we step in to defend not only what is in the best interest of our nation but also what is in the best interest of 70-80% of the population of the country we are "intervening" in, the world decides to cast us out as a pariah.

The US is easily the least imperial superpower in recorded history. Yet, the world labels us as harsher than all other superpowers. Underneath all the rhetoric, there is absolutely no basis for this claim.

Simply put, our "interventionist foreign policy" has done more to increase the standard of living of those people whom we effect than any other factor in their lives.
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I assume your referring to "splendid isolationism" before the start of World War II, which is the problem with your argument. Basicly comparing Germany's threat to conquer the world to Iraq, a country that was a beaten nation after the persian gulf war in the late 90's. Iraq was no world threat, and the U.S. could have made it a parking lot whenever they chose to.
 
#107
#107
oklavol said:
Iraq was no world threat, and the U.S. could have made it a parking lot whenever they chose to.
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Your kidding right? Money went along way to buying threats and attacking neighbors. Eerily similar to what happened in WWII. That is, before we made them a parking lot.
 
#108
#108
GAVol said:
In my mind, that's not even the point. It's not the fact that he may or may not share the opinion of his Pastor. . . It's that he clearly condoned the viewpoint for 20 years and is only now rejecting it.
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I haven't seen Obama quoted anywhere as condoning that viewpoint. Just because someone is your minister, does that mean you share the same political viewpoint?
 
#109
#109
hohenfelsvol said:
Your kidding right? Money went along way to buying threats and attacking neighbors. Eerily similar to what happened in WWII. That is, before we made them a parking lot.
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Comparing Iraq to pre-WWII Germany is an enormous stretch. They were a badly beaten nation after the persian Gulf War in the late 90's. There is nothing similar to Germany pre World War II. Germany had already taken over most of Europe.
 
#110
#110
oklavol said:
I haven't seen Obama quoted anywhere as condoning that viewpoint. Just because someone is your minister, does that mean you share the same political viewpoint?
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It would seem to me that if the pastor at your church was making these kinds of incendiary comments that you would cease to support the pastor by continuing to patronize that particular church and donating money to it. If you donate money to the church you are funding him and allowing him to make these statements from the pulpit.
 
#111
#111
oklavol said:
Comparing Iraq to pre-WWII Germany is an enormous stretch. They were a badly beaten nation after the persian Gulf War in the late 90's. There is nothing similar to Germany pre World War II. Germany had already taken over most of Europe.
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You are correct that Iraq was a crippled nation. But don't forget that Germany was a crippled nation as well until Hitler instilled a sense of nationalism in his countrymen. That being said I don't think Sadaam could have pulled that feat off though. He was controlling a nation that was divided among different ethnicities. He was dangerous in other ways. He was funding terrorism both directly and indirectly. There is no way to dispute that.
 
#112
#112
KB5252 said:
It would seem to me that if the pastor at your church was making these kinds of incendiary comments that you would cease to support the pastor by continuing to patronize that particular church and donating money to it. If you donate money to the church you are funding him and allowing him to make these statements from the pulpit.
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IMO no man should have to defend anyone else's comments or positions except his own. He's running on his political views, not his pastors.
 
#113
#113
Wright was an adviser, spiritual mentor and uncle figure to Obama.

It seems like a giant stretch to think Obama shared none of his mentor's views. Even Obama's wife has said she was never proud of America.

The only way I would believe Obama doesn't share the same views as the man who led him to Christ is if BHO was using him to make political contacts in Chicago.
 
#114
#114
oklavol said:
IMO no man should have to defend anyone else's comments or positions except his own. He's running on his political views, not his pastors.
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We do not live in a perfect world. He is interviewing for the biggest job our nation offers. The more scrutiny we can subject candidates to the more we will come to know of them. That being said I agree that men should not have to answer for other men, I also understand that we need to know as much about a person as we possibly can to elect them president. Especially when they are young and inexperienced as Obama is. We should be equally critical with all candidates. Hillary seems to get a pass, which I don't understand. IMO people are scared of the Clinton machine.
 
#115
#115
oklavol said:
Comparing Iraq to pre-WWII Germany is an enormous stretch. They were a badly beaten nation after the persian Gulf War in the late 90's. There is nothing similar to Germany pre World War II. Germany had already taken over most of Europe.
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Don't disagree with the force strength Oklavol. It's the buying their way into being a threat I'm referring to.
 
#116
#116
I expect BO to come out of the closet today...and let the country know he is now a Scientologist!
 
#117
#117
oklavol said:
I haven't seen Obama quoted anywhere as condoning that viewpoint. Just because someone is your minister, does that mean you share the same political viewpoint?
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Any voter who hadn't previously disqualified Obama as a candidate should do so now for the mere fact that the man shows absolutely horrible skills in terms of picking advisors. If this is the man he picks as his spiritual advisor, I'd hate to see what he fills his cabinet with.
 
#118
#118
I agree and it will be interesting to see how he spins this today. Funny thing though he never would have separated himself from this man if these things were never brought to light.
 
#119
#119
He still hasn't separated himself from this man. Far as I know he is still a member of this "church".
 
#120
#120
I thought he removed him from his political staff. Either way I'm kind of enjoying all this, but don't tell anyone I said that.
 
#121
#121
JZVOL said:
I thought he removed him from his political staff. Either way I'm kind off enjoying all this, but don't tell anyone I said that.
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That really isn't the point to me. He formed a very close relationship with a bigot. He joined this man's church, referred to him as an "uncle" and so forth. As I have said, these views I am sure are common in this church. The footage you see of this man are not some rare ventures he made into unchartered territory. I am sure his views are well known in the church he presided over.
 
#122
#122
allvol123 said:
He still hasn't separated himself from this man. Far as I know he is still a member of this "church".
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This minister is no longer a pastor there, though - right?

Also...I've been as hard on Obama about this as anybody...but the interesting thing is that there were many ministers raising questions after 9/11 ... planting the seed of, did we bring this on ourselves ...this attack by the "devil" through our immoral ways as a nation. The big difference here is the way he chose to do it and the fact that after pulling stunts like he did...he was named an adviser to a Presidential campaign. This guy took the question way too far, in my opinion - and answered it and basically enumerated the reasons why.
 
#123
#123
I've had some limited experience with the pastor's mentality. A few I've encountered adopt the double standard (my words) that as the "oppressed" they have a different set of rules about acceptable speech, accusations and racially tinged commentary.

Personally, I'd rather come down on the side of free speech here. The problem comes when these same people attack the "oppressors" for speech that is no where near as hateful or divisive. Unfortunately, I've personally witnessed it and the effects were very destructive.
 
#124
#124
allvol123 said:
That really isn't the point to me. He formed a very close relationship with a bigot. He joined this man's church, referred to him as an "uncle" and so forth. As I have said, these views I am sure are common in this church. The footage you see of this man are not some rare ventures he made into unchartered territory. I am sure his views are well known in the church he presided over.
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I totally agree, and anyone who votes for him should be ashamed.
 
#125
#125
TennTradition said:
This minister is no longer a pastor there, though - right?

Also...I've been as hard on Obama about this as anybody...but the interesting thing is that there were many ministers raising questions after 9/11 ... planting the seed of, did we bring this on ourselves ...this attack by the "devil" through our immoral ways as a nation. The big difference here is the way he chose to do it and the fact that after pulling stunts like he did...he was named an adviser to a Presidential campaign. This guy took the question way too far, in my opinion - and answered it and basically enumerated the reasons why.
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He may not be the official pastor there but as of yesterday his face is the first one you see when you open the web page. So take that for what it is worth.

Also, this goes much further than 09/11. All the "USKKK of A" and so forth. The man is a bigot and this is the man Obama CHOSE to follow. I see no good explanation for this. I would be just as harsh on a white presidential candidate who was a member of a white church where one of the messages was "stop letting the blacks pull you down".

I also add I don't get the whole "white church" that I used above or "afro-centric church" which this church appears to be. I really don't get this version of religion.
 
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