Official Global Warming thread (merged)

[BartW]

You still mad at the US (namely Trump) for dropping out of the Treaty?

Put more specifically, are you still mad that individual communities, states and businesses are forging ahead with implementing their own reductions in emissions instead of having a government mandate to do so?

Which one is better? The Federal Government making more laws, regulations and oversight or individuals doing it because they feel it's the right thing to do? Should the federal government also tell them when to go to bed and brush their teeth as well?

State governments are governments too, no?

If only everyone played nice. Why, we wouldn't need any laws at all!

Embarassed and ashamed are feelings that come to mind. Mad? Nah, I'm having fun.

 

[InVOLuntary]

No, it hasn’t been getting warmer since the last ice age. We were on a 5000+ year cooling trend until the industrial revolution. Also, I’m not sure you understand the carbon cycle and ramifications of taking organic matter that was accumulated and buried over millions and millions of years and then injecting it into the atmosphere over a span of decades. There is no doubt that the sharp increase in atmospheric CO2 is due to the burning of fossil fuels.

The human fingerprint in atmospheric carbon dioxide



Or, ya know, we can not lead at all, and pretend the issue is a hoax invented by the Chinese. That'll earn respect :dunno:

So it's not warmer than the ice age? Hmm. I better grab a coat. Need to take a rifle, might see a wooley mamouth.

Or we can go our own way and not pay extortion money. I don't want my tax dollars spent a as dues to be in some worthless orginization. You may be fine with it.

 

[LouderVol]

We should be participating in the Paris accord if we want to influence the implementation of the Paris accord. That seems obvious.

What part of the framework of the PCA, specifically, would you (or Trump) want to renegotiate? The goal of limiting global warming to 2C? The administration is mum.

If we’re not even going to fake a good faith effort on climate change then I don’t see why other countries would want to work with us.

Once Dominant, the United States Finds Itself Isolated at G-20

(SAD!)

no clue. I didn't necessarily want us out of the Accord. I believe we are trashing our world and have the ability to decrease that to an extent.

but I also realize for every Aral ocean you have the desertification of the Sahara and Australia.

just like I don't believe in welfare I don't believe we should be handing out money for other people to fix their problem.

change happens, it makes the species that survive stronger. this is just another effort to remove the cycle of evolution and adaption that made us what we are.

 

[Grand Vol]

State governments are governments too, no?

If only everyone played nice. Why, we wouldn't need any laws at all!

Embarassed and ashamed are feelings that come to mind. Mad? Nah, I'm having fun.

Did you miss the "federal" part of my Federal Government question? State and local levels are where those decisions should be made anyway.

Regardless, you have to make a choice. Either accept an overreaching, authoritarian Federal Government that makes all the rules and makes you follow them.

Or.

People actually do these things because they want to and it's the right thing to do.

Which one sounds better?

 

[Orangedogsrule]

But yet it has been the coolest summer with the most rain in years???? Global warming is a joke, seriously.

You don't read much do you?

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Did you miss the "federal" part of my Federal Government question? State and local levels are where those decisions should be made anyway.

Regardless, you have to make a choice. Either accept an overreaching, authoritarian Federal Government that makes all the rules and makes you follow them.

Or.

People actually do these things because they want to and it's the right thing to do.

Which one sounds better?

Because of technology and the population boom situations negatively impacting our environment have developed in the last 100 years that have no precedents in all of human history.

Sad to say but most people can not or refuse to comprehend the scope of these situations. There is poor education of the masses and they do not have the tools that should give them the capacity to know what your "right thing to do" is. Or, they 'sort of know' but the 'right thing' is going to adversely affect their wallet, so they will not do it.

I believe protecting the ecosystem from as much of mankind's mindless fouling of our one and only 'spaceship earth' should be the number one priority of government of any local, state, or nation you can name.

 

[Grand Vol]

Because of technology and the population boom situations negatively impacting our environment have developed in the last 100 years that have no precedents in all of human history.

Sad to say but most people can not or refuse to comprehend the scope of these situations. There is poor education of the masses and they do not have the tools that should give them the capacity to know what your "right thing to do" is. Or, they 'sort of know' but the 'right thing' is going to adversely affect their wallet, so they will not do it.

I believe protecting the ecosystem from as much of mankind's mindless fouling of our one and only 'spaceship earth' should be the number one priority of government of any local, state, or nation you can name.

Well, you hit the nail on the head. It's called education. However, it needs to be reasonable, honest and non-political. Good luck with that as it isn't helping a whole lot when the loudest screechers in the movement are the ones with the most horrid doomsday scenarios known.

Look, find the cheap, clean alternatives for fossil fuels in vehicles that can be implemented globally without wrecking economies in the process. Find the cheap(er) way of weaning the world off coal (here's looking at you China and India) and into NG, solar, hydro, geo, nuclear and wind. And for God's sake, enough of the damned Three Mile Island and Chernobyl doomsday nonsense.

You want a Treaty that benefits everyone? Stop allowing some nations a pass because they are "developing" and make standards that are fair across the board. If they are developing, shouldn't they be building these clean alternative energy sources right now instead having to replace them later? Over 2,000 coal plants either in operation or planned in Asia right now.

The problem with the climate change activists is a complete lack of common sense in putting their message out there.

 

[LouderVol]

no clue. I didn't necessarily want us out of the Accord. I believe we are trashing our world and have the ability to decrease that to an extent.

but I also realize for every Aral ocean you have the desertification of the Sahara and Australia.

just like I don't believe in welfare I don't believe we should be handing out money for other people to fix their problem.

change happens, it makes the species that survive stronger. this is just another effort to remove the cycle of evolution and adaption that made us what we are.

wow, I am an idiot. not even going to fix it. siap.

 

[golfballs]

Delaware-sized iceberg splits from Antarctica

Climate change has a new poster child: a massive iceberg the size of Delaware—one of the largest ever recorded—that early this week calved off Larsen C, the largest remaining ice shelf off the Antarctic Peninsula, scientists announced today.

Although researchers cannot explicitly connect the calving event to warming air or water

However, I'm sure they're working diligently to do so.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Delaware-sized iceberg splits from Antarctica





However, I'm sure they're working diligently to do so.

There are only two things that can cause iceberg calving.

Water temperature and air temperature. Once either or both have reduced the mechanical strength of the ice sufficiently, it will break.

Curiously, there is a phenomenon of large icebergs flipping upside down. This is occuring at an increasing rate. If the water is warmer than the air, the bottom will melt away faster leaving a greater mass above the water line and when it becomes too heavy it flips to restablish stability.

Video

https://youtu.be/tVFEdnRdkis

Photo

 

[Orangedogsrule]

China pollution CG visualization.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/watch-air-pollution-flow-across-planet-real-time


China’s air is notoriously toxic: Each year, it contributes to the premature deaths of some 1.6 million people. Concerned about how such pollution was affecting his family, Beijing-based data scientist Yann Boquillod founded AirVisual Earth, an online air pollution map that uses data from satellites and more than 8000 monitoring stations to display global air pollution in real time.

 

[Grand Vol]

Photo

Has to be a fake.

I don't see the Titanic anywhere.

 

[LouderVol]

There are only two things that can cause iceberg calving.

Water temperature and air temperature. Once either or both have reduced the mechanical strength of the ice sufficiently, it will break.

Curiously, there is a phenomenon of large icebergs flipping upside down. This is occuring at an increasing rate. If the water is warmer than the air, the bottom will melt away faster leaving a greater mass above the water line and when it becomes too heavy it flips to restablish stability.

Video

https://youtu.be/tVFEdnRdkis

Photo

coolest video I have seen in a long time.

pun intended.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

There are only two things that can cause iceberg calving.

Water temperature and air temperature. Once either or both have reduced the mechanical strength of the ice sufficiently, it will break.

Curiously, there is a phenomenon of large icebergs flipping upside down. This is occuring at an increasing rate. If the water is warmer than the air, the bottom will melt away faster leaving a greater mass above the water line and when it becomes too heavy it flips to restablish stability.

Video

https://youtu.be/tVFEdnRdkis

Photo

Most lakes turn over every winter for the same reason. I don't know how anyone can draw conclusions on "increasing rate" since the current tracking of icebergs is light years ahead of where we were even 100 years ago.

 

[Grand Vol]

Curiously, there is a phenomenon of large icebergs flipping upside down. This is occuring at an increasing rate. If the water is warmer than the air, the bottom will melt away faster leaving a greater mass above the water line and when it becomes too heavy it flips to restablish stability.

So, my question is...

Is it happening more or are they monitoring for it more?

Not necessarily questioning whether or not it's happening more frequently, but rather if it's just something that is getting a bit more attention.

 

[tumscalcium]

So, my question is...

Is it happening more or are they monitoring for it more?

Not necessarily questioning whether or not it's happening more frequently, but rather if it's just something that is getting a bit more attention.

Every single iceberg on earth is monitored 24/7.

 

[LouderVol]

Every single iceberg on earth is monitored 24/7.

googled and not disappointed.

http://www.icebergfinder.com/

this is one of the days i love the internet. I can report an iceberg. what a great time to be alive.

 

[McDad]

coolest video I have seen in a long time.

pun intended.

I once spent 3 hours of my life on YouTube captivated by glacial calving, iceberg calving, iceberg rollover, and landslides. Mesmericing.

Pun intended, too.

 

[McDad]

Curiously, there is a phenomenon of large icebergs flipping upside down. This is occuring at an increasing rate. If the water is warmer than the air, the bottom will melt away faster leaving a greater mass above the water line and when it becomes too

If air temp is 29F, and water temp is 29F wouldn't the liquid below-freezing salt water "melt" away the iceberg below the water line while the portion above water line remain frozen?

 

[LouderVol]

I once spent 3 hours of my life on YouTube captivated by glacial calving, iceberg calving, iceberg rollover, and landslides. Mesmericing.

Pun intended, too.

no way it was just 3 hours.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

If air temp is 29F, and water temp is 29F wouldn't the liquid below-freezing salt water "melt" away the iceberg below the water line while the portion above water line remain frozen?

Hmmm....The berg is pure H2O. Ice resulting from snow compaction, etc.

The ocean is salt water of course.

At 29°F air and ocean.

A few things occur to me.

1. Sunlight on the surface of the ice will melt it, just as it melts snow here in Tennessee when temps hover just below freezing.

2. Ice also sublimates, it evaporates into the air as a vapor without turning to a liquid form first. The less cloudy the day, the more sublimation.

2. Salt water moving around the submerged portion of the berg will draw some of the frozen H2O into solution at 29°F. I looked it up. The ocean is only about 3% salt, so it does freeze at about 27°F, and you specified a higher temperature than that but below pure water (iceberg) freezing at 32°F.

At these temps given the sunshine's energy, sublimation, variable cloud cover, and a very very slow drawing off of submerged H2O surface molecules I have no idea which would occur first. I'm guessing that exposed to the sun.

 

[LouderVol]

Hmmm....The berg is pure H2O. Ice resulting from snow compaction, etc.

The ocean is salt water of course.

At 29°F air and ocean.

A few things occur to me.

1. Sunlight on the surface of the ice will melt it, just as it melts snow here in Tennessee when temps hover just below freezing.

2. Ice also sublimates, it evaporates into the air as a vapor without turning to a liquid form first. The less cloudy the day, the more sublimation.

2. Salt water moving around the submerged portion of the berg will draw some of the frozen H2O into solution at 29°F. I looked it up. The ocean is only about 3% salt, so it does freeze at about 27°F, and you specified a higher temperature than that but below pure water (iceberg) freezing at 32°F.

At these temps given the sunshine's energy, sublimation, variable cloud cover, and a very very slow drawing off of submerged H2O surface molecules I have no idea which would occur first. I'm guessing that exposed to the sun.

no, there is going to be much more water molicules around it than air.

stick an ice cube into a glass of 69 (room temp) water and leave same said ice cube in 69 degree air and see which melts first (its the water)

 

[McDad]

no, there is going to be much more water molicules around it than air.

stick an ice cube into a glass of 69 (room temp) water and leave same said ice cube in 69 degree air and see which melts first (its the water)

Interesting experiment, I think.

Air temp of 31 in full sunlight and brine water temp of 31, which part of pure h2o ice melts fastests?

 

[McDad]

Hmmm....The berg is pure H2O. Ice resulting from snow compaction, etc.

The ocean is salt water of course.

At 29°F air and ocean.

A few things occur to me.

1. Sunlight on the surface of the ice will melt it, just as it melts snow here in Tennessee when temps hover just below freezing.

2. Ice also sublimates, it evaporates into the air as a vapor without turning to a liquid form first. The less cloudy the day, the more sublimation.

2. Salt water moving around the submerged portion of the berg will draw some of the frozen H2O into solution at 29°F. I looked it up. The ocean is only about 3% salt, so it does freeze at about 27°F, and you specified a higher temperature than that but below pure water (iceberg) freezing at 32°F.

At these temps given the sunshine's energy, sublimation, variable cloud cover, and a very very slow drawing off of submerged H2O surface molecules I have no idea which would occur first. I'm guessing that exposed to the sun.

Is 3% concentrated nacl solution enough to significantly lower freeze temp of pure h2o, I wonder?

 

[Orangedogsrule]

no, there is going to be much more water molicules around it than air.

stick an ice cube into a glass of 69 (room temp) water and leave same said ice cube in 69 degree air and see which melts first (its the water)

Molecule size?

Your parameters are not the same. 29° vs 69°.
Salt water vs "glass of water".