Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

#76,435
#76,435
What in the heck is all this witchcraft? I have never logged into VN on anything but my phone. Have never seen all this stuff in my life.
 

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#76,436
#76,436
Just in. He predicted all our recent bigshots too...hello top5 class!!!
 

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#76,442
#76,442
Matt2496 said:



@Vol737
@SpaceCoastVol

Any idea what could have caused this plane to suddenly go into a flat spin like this? Icing?
Click to expand...

Hmm, 17,000 ft.... If it was ice it would likely mean their pneumatic boots that expand and shed the ice would have had to fail. Doesn't sound like there was severe icing forecasted in the area, just some rain, possible light icing at that altitude. If it was the freighter version, very heavily loaded and the CG shifted too far aft, it could cause a stall that they couldn't recover from and produce a flat spin. This ATR was configured for passengers. I flew the ATR 72 for a couple of years. The main cargo compartment is actually between the cockpit and the cabin, so it's cargo weight was more forward. No kidding, there were a lot of stories about pilots and flight attendants meeting up in the forward cargo bin in flight and....well, you know. There is a smaller cargo compartment in the tail of the aircraft. I can't imagine the cargo would have all been in the aft since they have to meet weight and balance parameters for takeoff. Plane likely couldn't even get off the ground in that case. Could have been total loss of flight control inputs that somehow caused an attitude upset. Just have to see what the investigation produces.
 
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#76,444
#76,444
Vol737 said:
Hmm, 17,000 ft.... If it was ice it would likely mean their pneumatic boots that expand and shed the ice would have had to fail. Doesn't sound like there was severe icing forecasted in the area, just some rain, possible light icing at that altitude. If it was the freighter version, very heavily loaded and the CG shifted too far aft, it could cause a stall that they couldn't recover from and produce a flat spin. This ATR was configured for passengers. I flew the ATR 72 for a couple of years. The main cargo compartment is actually between the cockpit and the cabin, so it's cargo weight was more forward. No kidding, there were a lot of stories about pilots and flight attendants meeting up in the forward cargo bin in flight and....well, you know. There is a smaller cargo compartment in the tail of the aircraft. I can't imagine the cargo would have all been in the aft since they have to meet weight and balance parameters for takeoff. Plane likely couldn't even get off the ground in that case. Could have been total loss of flight control inputs that somehow caused an attitude upset. Just have to see what the investigation produces.
Click to expand...

I have never seen a plane that big drop like a brick straight down like that. Wow...bout 60 folks dead. It looked like they probably died instantly in an explosion when it hit the ground at least, but thats sad for everyone involved. It was in a flat spin too (yaw) from some of those pics in the thread it looked like part of the T shaped tail had broken off. Could just be the angle of view though. Whats amazing is how safe flying has actually become. Even 50 years ago, plane crashes were way more common and even killed lots of famous people.
 
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#76,445
#76,445
marcusluvsvols said:
I have never seen a plane that big drop like a brick straight down like that. Wow...bout 60 folks dead. It looked like they probably died instantly in an explosion when it hit the ground at least, but thats sad for everyone involved. It was in a flat spin too (yaw) from some of those pics in the thread it looked like part of the T shaped tail had broken off. Could just be the angle of view though. Whats amazing is how safe flying has actually become. Even 50 years ago, plane crashes were way more common and even killed lots of famous people.
Click to expand...
The tail, at least the horizontal stabilizer/elevator, seems to be intact, but it's a little grainy on my computer. I can't tell if there is a rudder issue, but the rudder looks to be intact too. I don't see an obvious missing flt control of any kind.
 
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#76,446
#76,446
Vol737 said:
Hmm, 17,000 ft.... If it was ice it would likely mean their pneumatic boots that expand and shed the ice would have had to fail. Doesn't sound like there was severe icing forecasted in the area, just some rain, possible light icing at that altitude. If it was the freighter version, very heavily loaded and the CG shifted too far aft, it could cause a stall that they couldn't recover from and produce a flat spin. This ATR was configured for passengers. I flew the ATR 72 for a couple of years. The main cargo compartment is actually between the cockpit and the cabin, so it's cargo weight was more forward. No kidding, there were a lot of stories about pilots and flight attendants meeting up in the forward cargo bin in flight and....well, you know. There is a smaller cargo compartment in the tail of the aircraft. I can't imagine the cargo would have all been in the aft since they have to meet weight and balance parameters for takeoff. Plane likely couldn't even get off the ground in that case. Could have been total loss of flight control inputs that somehow caused an attitude upset. Just have to see what the investigation produces.
Click to expand...

I've been favorably impressed when flying in ATRs. The last time was Tahiti to Bora Bora several years ago. Seems like ATRs and De Havilland Dash series are popular in a lot of interisland air traffic across the world, and don't seem to have a bad safety record at all.

My wife and I flew Air Micronesia from Japan to Hawaii when Continental Airlines had the route back in the 70s - your comment about the forward cargo hold reminded me. It was not the quick way, but I got to see a lot of places I'd only heard of; we spent a few days getting bad sunburns on Truk and then continued on east from there. The wife wasn't impressed; I thought it was great island hopping across the Pacific in a 727. The plane had a cargo hold between the cockpit and the cabin - I was in the first row and saw huge boxes strapped down when one of the flight attendants would go up to the cockpit. One weird thing was those 727s boarded strictly from the ramp in the back and seat numbers were done from the back to the front. I thought my high seat number was condemning me to the back of the plane, but it turned out to be the front row. I moved across the aisle to have a window and one flight attendant sat next to me on landing ... the first time I ever heard one scream was our landing on Truk. It was a coral runway, wet and drizzly, and I saw a lot of it disappear before we hit the runway ... hard. He did get it stopped without going in the water at the other end unlike one within the last few years.
 
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#76,447
#76,447
Matt2496 said:



@Vol737
@SpaceCoastVol

Any idea what could have caused this plane to suddenly go into a flat spin like this? Icing?
Click to expand...


One thing I've noticed is the air radar statistic update rate is variable and never instantaneous. This plane looks like it just ran out of airspeed for whatever reason. It may not have been doing anything near 220 knots when things went all wrong.

Last night I was watching a real assortment of military aircraft off the southern CA coast. Most that showed up on flight radar were tankers - a lot of them, so you knew there were a lot of other planes (fighters specifically) that weren't showing up. The AWACs type wasn't surprising, but the B-52 in the mix was weird. I read today it was an exercise called Bamboo Eagle.
 
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#76,449
#76,449
gcbvol said:
A few somethings maybe. Those guys have quads for days.

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fa19a4d0-dd9d-11ea-b7d5-a7862abb3c5a
 
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