Official Statement Confirms Detonations on 9/11

#76
#76
Bill Maher recently suggested that people who dare to question this habitually lying government's official version of what happened on September 11 are crazy and should ask their doctor if Paxil is right for them.

Perhaps Maher would be less reticent to question the sanity of a man labeled "perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle East” by Seymour Hersh and whose astounding career formed the script for the Academy Award winning motion picture Syriana.

Robert Baer is no "radical left loony" as Bill O'Reilly would allege and neither does he lean to the right. He is a widely respected expert on intelligence matters and middle eastern foreign policy, an Emmy award nominated documentarian and a strong advocate of the CIA's need to increase Human Intelligence (HUMINT) on the ground.

Baer served as a clandestine officer in Madras and New Delhi, India; in Beirut, Lebanon; in Dushanbe, Tajikistan; and in Salah al-Din in Kurdish northern Iraq. While in Iraq, Baer tried to persuade the Clinton administration to back a coup to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

So when Baer told a radio host that "the evidence points at" 9/11 having had aspects of being an inside job, the noisy negativists and the trolls were notable by their absence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNsSn6D3CP4 - Hear it yourself

So where are the debunkers on this one? What does Bill Maher have to say about it? One of the foremost intelligence and foreign policy experts in America and a 20-year CIA veteran to boot says that 9/11 looks like an inside job.
 
#77
#77
So where are the debunkers on this one? What does Bill Maher have to say about it? One of the foremost intelligence and foreign policy experts in America and a 20-year CIA veteran to boot says that 9/11 looks like an inside job.

Maher's as well as Hersh's opinions carry no weight with me. Both have strong political agendas.

Baer has no direct knowledge of the situation. Nor does he address the numerous events and occurrences that have to be true for this to be an inside job. Further, he is making good money by writing books (fiction and non-fiction) that involve conspiratorial elements.
 
#78
#78
Maher's as well as Hersh's opinions carry no weight with me. Both have strong political agendas.

Baer has no direct knowledge of the situation. Nor does he address the numerous events and occurrences that have to be true for this to be an inside job. Further, he is making good money by writing books (fiction and non-fiction) that involve conspiratorial elements.

Anyone who has 'direct knowledge' is not permitted to share enough, if any at all, information to put this 'conspiracy theory' away, so your point is moot. You have to wonder why that is? All the unanswered questions, all the distortions in the 'Final Report', not to mention the explanation for the collapse of WTC7 still, after 6 years, has not be released. Popular Mechanics comes to mind, but they only had small access to certain 'direct knowledge', and that was nothing more than a few photographs. Another would be Calum Douglas. His investigation into the flight data recorder info from Flight 77 was supplied to him under the US Freedom of Information Act. His presentation COMPLETELY contradicts the official story of what happened at the Pentagon. Is it not enough to take Baer's word as honest and trustworthy? His credentials should speak for themselves, but I suppose that's not enough for some people. If he says 'evidence points towards that', don't you believe he's looked at the provided material and made his own decision based on the supportive evidence?

Here is the documentary Calum Douglas made: flamesong: 9/11: flight 77: the flight data recorder investigation files
 
#79
#79
Is it not enough to take Baer's word as honest and trustworthy? His credentials should speak for themselves, but I suppose that's not enough for some people. If he says 'evidence points towards that', don't you believe he's looked at the provided material and made his own decision based on the supportive evidence?

You do not take the word of countless people when they say it wasn't a conspiracy - including people directly involved.

Part of the conspiracy logic is the financial gain of players involved. Using that logic, Baer has potential financial gain by taking a conspiratorial perspective and therefore his word is not to be trusted....

It cuts both ways - you can't dismiss all those with solid records but then claim people shouldn't be dismissed.
 
#80
#80
You do not take the word of countless people when they say it wasn't a conspiracy - including people directly involved.

I do not take the word for the simple reason of the way they have handled the direct information. People ask for questions and get none. There are countless number of very important questions that have purposely gone unanswered. The number of omissions and distortions in the 9/11 Commission Report is another reason why I do not take their word when they say it wasn't a conspiracy.


Part of the conspiracy logic is the financial gain of players involved. Using that logic, Baer has potential financial gain by taking a conspiratorial perspective and therefore his word is not to be trusted....
You're right, that is a major part of it, yet it is completely irrelevant when talking about direct knowledge. You're talking about potential financial gain because of his personal work, not necessarily because of his conspiratorial perspective. Nor does that dismiss the fact there were billions gained because of that event. That makes your point very weak considering his potential to make money is an extremely small fraction when compared to that of the amount already gained by Bush, Cheney, Silverstein, etc.

It cuts both ways - you can't dismiss all those with solid records but then claim people shouldn't be dismissed.
Which people with direct knowledge of the events have solid records? I'd like to know.
 
#81
#81
Which people with direct knowledge of the events have solid records? I'd like to know.

There are 100's if not 1000's of people who investigated 9/11. Many of these people have every bit as much integrity as Baer (some likely more). Yet they are viewed as part of the cover up. I assume they are believed to not come forward due to buy-in, financial gain or fear.

You completely dismiss all these people's reputations - people with many more facts than Baer.

As to financial gain - the amount must be viewed as relative. Baer is plugging books about government secret actions. Taking this stand helps sell books. If he didn't make these claims, he sells less books. (For the record I'm not really accusing him of lying - just showing how the conspiratorial logic can be used to discredit anyone).
 
#82
#82
The people I'm referring to, though, are the one's who are deliberately hiding vital information from the public (the omission of Israel in the 9/11 Commission Report, for instance) and the one's refusing to answer any of the questions under oath.

And I'm sorry, but I just cannot view the financial gain as relevant. That's taking a massive and absurd leap by trying to relate the two. I saw how you came to that stance, but can you at least understand why I find it appalling to relate the two together?
 
#83
#83
The people I'm referring to, though, are the one's who are deliberately hiding vital information from the public (the omission of Israel in the 9/11 Commission Report, for instance) and the one's refusing to answer any of the questions under oath.

And I'm sorry, but I just cannot view the financial gain as relevant. That's taking a massive and absurd leap by trying to relate the two. I saw how you came to that stance, but can you at least understand why I find it appalling to relate the two together?

Yet there are 100's or 1000's with direct knowledge - why aren't they coming forward. Were they lying when they compiled all the materials for the reports? Are they keeping silent now eventhough they believe the reports are bogus?

It is no more appalling to say Baer could gain financially from his stance than to say people covering it up would do the same.
 
#86
#86
Bush won't be President again? The conspiracy theorists had me thinking with the Sam Giancana/Kennedy deal, but they are sure running out of logic


Kirby mentioned something about power hungry generals and a half brother that was recruited for land mind inspection.

Does Kirby have something against our military and this justifies his dislike?

:question:
 
#87
#87
Seems to me like the typical "Hate the traditionalist segment by believing and preaching what Michael Moore tells me to believe and preach"

That someone who spawns this garbage gets 5 pages on the forums, and my "Which Color is the true champ..Magenta or Burnt Siena" thread doesn't merit a reply, is sad.
 
#90
#90
It really irks me that you relate me with Michael Moore, y'know. He didn't even have the sense to mention NORAD standing down in his film.

I honestly do not believe y'all are understanding the importance of the the information that's available on 9/11. You should be outraged and ready to see heads roll when reviewing the important unanswered questions which have been ignored for 5+ years. For those who would doubt the depths to which privilege power might go to get its way, let me echo this again and just point out that it is now a documented fact that the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed the staging of a terrorist attack within the US that would murder U.S. citizens, in order to provide a pretext for an invasion of Cuba in the early decades of the Cold War (OPERATION NORTHWOODS). Do not ever under-estimate what the Dick Cheney's and Karl Rove's and Goldman Sach's of the world might be willing to do to further their profits. Also do not underestimate the power of blind mis-placed loyalty within the military, doing its "duty" to the President while overlooking its more sacred duty to the Constitution.

The point is that there a vital issues about which we Americans ought to be crying loudly to be examined by some subsequent commission of inquiry that will not simply gloss over or totally ignore discrepancies, inconsistencies in testimony, and unexamined facts.

The 9/11 Commission report contains a disclaimer box on page 146, in which it is stated that the report’s account of what happened on 9/11 was in considerable measure based on what those key witnesses allegedly told interrogators, and that the commissioners were not allowed to meet the witnesses or their interrogators.

"We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting."

In light of the sorry record of the propagandistic exploitation of the 9/11 tragedy for partisan political purpose, is it any wonder that large numbers of Americans have doubts about all of it and that a considerable industry of documentaries and investigative reports has sprung up with alternative theories ranging from the plausible to the absurd?

September 11 may be an example of expedient destruction, ordered from within the state. Machiavelian state terror, for instance, advances the ruling agenda while disguising itself as the work of individuals or groups opposed to the state's fundamental principles. What did George Bush say? They attacked us because of our freedom.

The idea of an 'international terrorist conspiracy', by my belief, was completely fabricated by Washington and embellished by the empty bellicose rhetoric of Bin Laden, a leader without a following, a leader created by the mass media, a leader incapable of directing a single operative terrorist attack.

It is now a well known fact that there was no connection between Iraq and Bin Laden/Al Queda, despite forceful efforts by Colin Powell to present the UN with bogus evidence. But what is equally important, the US, the UN, Tony Blair, the Afghan narco-warlords and other US allies have never found a single piece of evidence linking Bin Laden/Al Queda with the terrorist incidents of 9/11...

Some important information to look over:

a. Prior to the attacks, key alleged hijackers were protected from FBI field investigations, by FBI headquaters.

b. All hijacked plane passenger lists, are five passengers short of the official count, and contain no Arabic or Muslim names.

c. The fires caused by planes on the upper floors of the twin towers effectively burned out, before the towers fell.

d. FDNY personnel escaping the WTC north tower, reported explosions going off as the tower collapsed.

e. The 40 story WTC building 7 collaped exactly like the twin towers without ever being struck by a plane.

f. All steel from the WTC collapses was hurriedly shipped out of the country without the usual investigations.

g. The FAA destroyed vital 9/11 tape recordings, instead of using this information in the usual investigations.

h. On 9/11/2001, federal agencies including FAA, NORAD, and FEMA, were running hijack simulations including some where planes strike buildings.

i. After 9/11, the Bush administration publicly stated that prior to the attacks, it had felt no need to guard against the threat of planes used as missiles.

j. The technology that will make it possible to use cell phones on commercial airliners, won't be available until 2006.

k. The 'war on terror' decreases U.S. constitutional liberties, but increases terrorist activity.

l. Selected persons were told not to fly that day. Newsweek reported that on September 10th, "a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

m. There are reasonable grounds for suspicion that the U.S. attack on Afghanistan was already planned before September 11th.

n. The Bush Administration is clearly capable of creating or allowing such atrocities to occur.

Hitler was able to play the anti-communist card to win over skeptical German industrialists. Certainly the Bush family are not newcomers to melding political and business interests, they got their start as key Hitler supporters. Prescott Bush, father of George Bush Sr., was Hitler’s banker and propaganda manager in New York, until FDR confiscated his holdings.George Bush Sr. used Manuel Noriega as a scapegoat, killing thousands of innocent Panamanians in the process of re-establishing U.S. control over Panama. It is also widely believed that the current Bush Administration knowingly misled the people about the war in Iraq.

o. Norman Mineta's testimony.

p. The Pentagon was not struck by a Boeng plane.

q. WTC first responder ilness due to toxic air (and the lies by the government that it was safe to breathe)

r. Multiple "terrorist hi-jackers" are still alive.

s. Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani had foreknowledge of the attack. He had told Peter Jennings on ABC News on 9/11 itself that he had been warned.

The logical conclusion is that Bin Laden/Al Queda had at best a marginal role, if any. What we do know is that several of the terrorists easily obtained multiple entry visas in Saudi Arabia from the US embassy. That at least two of the hijackers were trained at US military bases. That the FBI and CIA had prior notice of a hijacking and let the operatives proceed. That Condaleeza Rice admitted to prior knowledge of a "traditional hijacking" a short time before it occurred. That US airforce planes were not commanded to action until after the hijackers succeeded. ... At the least we can say that those who fabricated stories of weapons of mass destruction, of Iraqis welcoming US invaders, of all powerful international terrorist organizations are at the least capable of fabricating the story of 9/11.

While overwhelming evidence indicates 9/11 was an inside job, even the FBI now admits that no credible evidence points to Osama bin Laden and the 19 alleged "terrorists" as perpetrators. No trial or impartial investigation of the crime has yet occurred. In fact, the official 9/11 story, that 19 alleged hijackers with box-cutters fooled the best military/defense system in the world, is itself an outrageous conspiracy theory. Certainly these men, at least six of whom are still alive, lacked the motivation and the ability to carry out the attacks by themselves. Certainly, 9/11 was not an "intelligence failure," as the government/media complex has characterized it. Rather, 9/11 was an elaborate hoax, a staged "war pretext incident," engineered to fool the American people into accepting wars of aggression abroad as well as a rollback of their civil liberties. As such, 9/11 is a typical example of "state-sponsored, false-flag terrorism" and a covert, "black op" orchestrated by rogue elements within the U.S. government. It is "false-flag" because it was blamed on a political target group, the Muslims.

Robert Baer wrote: "Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation--not one based on 'confession' extracted by torture -- we will never fully know what happened on 9/11."
 
#91
#91
Also do not underestimate the power of blind mis-placed loyalty within the military, doing its "duty" to the President while overlooking its more sacred duty to the Constitution.

Robert Baer wrote: "Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation--not one based on 'confession' extracted by torture -- we will never fully know what happened on 9/11."

Baer was once one a govt. worker. By your logic - he should not have been trusted while under the employ of the govt. but suddenly now he becomes a credible, independent source.

The logic you use to discredit anyone "officially" involved in the investigation applies exactly to Baer. You've simply chosen to believe the one that fits your view and conveniently dismiss the 100s of others that do not.

Finally, Baer's own statement quoted above doesn't support a conclusion of an inside job. At best he claims to not know what really happened. Since he apparently hasn't done any real investigation - it's hard to view him as a credible source of what happened.
 
#93
#93
I have a conspiracy theory that the above Kirby post is a massive cut and paste.
 
#94
#94
I have a conspiracy theory that the above Kirby post is a massive cut and paste.

Partly, yes, text included in the post was, in fact, adduced from random articles. What am I charged with?

bham - "blind mis-placed loyalty within the military, doing its "duty" to the President while overlooking its more sacred duty to the Constitution." - How does that apply to Baer?

"The logic you use to discredit anyone "officially" involved in the investigation applies exactly to Baer" - Now it applies to Baer because he's "officially" invovled? Surely you must remember your post stating that he had no direct knowledge, so how can he now be "officially" invovled? The two don't quite go together.

" Finally, Baer's own statement quoted above doesn't support a conclusion of an inside job " The comment he made in the video I posted surely states to the contrary.
 
#95
#95
Partly, yes, text included in the post was, in fact, adduced from random articles. What am I charged with?

bham - "blind mis-placed loyalty within the military, doing its "duty" to the President while overlooking its more sacred duty to the Constitution." - How does that apply to Baer?

"The logic you use to discredit anyone "officially" involved in the investigation applies exactly to Baer" - Now it applies to Baer because he's "officially" invovled? Surely you must remember your post stating that he had no direct knowledge, so how can he now be "officially" invovled? The two don't quite go together.

" Finally, Baer's own statement quoted above doesn't support a conclusion of an inside job " The comment he made in the video I posted surely states to the contrary.

Let me simplify this - you appear to discredit anyone currently employed by this govt. Apparently they don't "fess-up" to the truth due to blind loyalty.

Baer used to be employed by the govt. By your logic, any claims he made during that time were not to be trusted. Now that he is not with the government, he becomes magically credible.

In short, I discount Baer for the simple reason that he has no direct knowledge of the situation. I've seen no evidence he has investigated the situation. He may honestly believe it's an inside job or merely question the accuracy of the the official story. In either case, you've provided no convincing evidence that he is an authority on the issue.

In contrast, there are 100s (at least) of people with direct knowledge but not one is supporting your theory. Not one is providing direct evidence of the conspiracy. You dismiss them all as being tools - ignoring all the while that many of them are every bit as fine a person as Baer. My point is that by your definition, Baer too had to be a tool but now he is miraculously not a tool and should be believed 100% eventhough he hasn't conducted any investigation that I can see.
 
#96
#96
Can't we just accept the fact that 9-11 wasn't an inside job and move on, or do we have to allow more CRAP to be posted about how it has been proven it was according to some nutcase media outlets that all of a sudden warrant reading opposed to the mainstream. Even the crackheads in the Major networks aren't this stupid. The other guys must be on some REALLY HARD DRUGS. VK, obviously you are smart and I think a smart person would let this go now and let it die. You have already tried to prove your point in a thread about 6 months ago and it died just like this one will. Look, you believe it that's great. The rest of us DON'T, do don't try and convince us when we know better. Call us ignorant, call us stupid, but when you finally grow up alittle and realize that you don't have to be right about everything your life will be much easier. Sorry VK, but this case is closed. Move on to the next black helicopter conspiracy and let this go. BTW, if you want a REAL conspiracy look at Global Warming. TennTradition in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ....
 
#97
#97
It really irks me that you relate me with Michael Moore, y'know. He didn't even have the sense to mention NORAD standing down in his film.

I honestly do not believe y'all are understanding the importance of the the information that's available on 9/11. You should be outraged and ready to see heads roll when reviewing the important unanswered questions which have been ignored for 5+ years. For those who would doubt the depths to which privilege power might go to get its way, let me echo this again and just point out that it is now a documented fact that the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed the staging of a terrorist attack within the US that would murder U.S. citizens, in order to provide a pretext for an invasion of Cuba in the early decades of the Cold War (OPERATION NORTHWOODS). Do not ever under-estimate what the Dick Cheney's and Karl Rove's and Goldman Sach's of the world might be willing to do to further their profits. Also do not underestimate the power of blind mis-placed loyalty within the military, doing its "duty" to the President while overlooking its more sacred duty to the Constitution.

The point is that there a vital issues about which we Americans ought to be crying loudly to be examined by some subsequent commission of inquiry that will not simply gloss over or totally ignore discrepancies, inconsistencies in testimony, and unexamined facts.

The 9/11 Commission report contains a disclaimer box on page 146, in which it is stated that the report’s account of what happened on 9/11 was in considerable measure based on what those key witnesses allegedly told interrogators, and that the commissioners were not allowed to meet the witnesses or their interrogators.

"We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting."

In light of the sorry record of the propagandistic exploitation of the 9/11 tragedy for partisan political purpose, is it any wonder that large numbers of Americans have doubts about all of it and that a considerable industry of documentaries and investigative reports has sprung up with alternative theories ranging from the plausible to the absurd?

September 11 may be an example of expedient destruction, ordered from within the state. Machiavelian state terror, for instance, advances the ruling agenda while disguising itself as the work of individuals or groups opposed to the state's fundamental principles. What did George Bush say? They attacked us because of our freedom.

The idea of an 'international terrorist conspiracy', by my belief, was completely fabricated by Washington and embellished by the empty bellicose rhetoric of Bin Laden, a leader without a following, a leader created by the mass media, a leader incapable of directing a single operative terrorist attack.

It is now a well known fact that there was no connection between Iraq and Bin Laden/Al Queda, despite forceful efforts by Colin Powell to present the UN with bogus evidence. But what is equally important, the US, the UN, Tony Blair, the Afghan narco-warlords and other US allies have never found a single piece of evidence linking Bin Laden/Al Queda with the terrorist incidents of 9/11...

Some important information to look over:

a. Prior to the attacks, key alleged hijackers were protected from FBI field investigations, by FBI headquaters.

b. All hijacked plane passenger lists, are five passengers short of the official count, and contain no Arabic or Muslim names.

c. The fires caused by planes on the upper floors of the twin towers effectively burned out, before the towers fell.

d. FDNY personnel escaping the WTC north tower, reported explosions going off as the tower collapsed.

e. The 40 story WTC building 7 collaped exactly like the twin towers without ever being struck by a plane.

f. All steel from the WTC collapses was hurriedly shipped out of the country without the usual investigations.

g. The FAA destroyed vital 9/11 tape recordings, instead of using this information in the usual investigations.

h. On 9/11/2001, federal agencies including FAA, NORAD, and FEMA, were running hijack simulations including some where planes strike buildings.

i. After 9/11, the Bush administration publicly stated that prior to the attacks, it had felt no need to guard against the threat of planes used as missiles.

j. The technology that will make it possible to use cell phones on commercial airliners, won't be available until 2006.

k. The 'war on terror' decreases U.S. constitutional liberties, but increases terrorist activity.

l. Selected persons were told not to fly that day. Newsweek reported that on September 10th, "a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

m. There are reasonable grounds for suspicion that the U.S. attack on Afghanistan was already planned before September 11th.

n. The Bush Administration is clearly capable of creating or allowing such atrocities to occur.

Hitler was able to play the anti-communist card to win over skeptical German industrialists. Certainly the Bush family are not newcomers to melding political and business interests, they got their start as key Hitler supporters. Prescott Bush, father of George Bush Sr., was Hitler’s banker and propaganda manager in New York, until FDR confiscated his holdings.George Bush Sr. used Manuel Noriega as a scapegoat, killing thousands of innocent Panamanians in the process of re-establishing U.S. control over Panama. It is also widely believed that the current Bush Administration knowingly misled the people about the war in Iraq.

o. Norman Mineta's testimony.

p. The Pentagon was not struck by a Boeng plane.

q. WTC first responder ilness due to toxic air (and the lies by the government that it was safe to breathe)

r. Multiple "terrorist hi-jackers" are still alive.

s. Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani had foreknowledge of the attack. He had told Peter Jennings on ABC News on 9/11 itself that he had been warned.

The logical conclusion is that Bin Laden/Al Queda had at best a marginal role, if any. What we do know is that several of the terrorists easily obtained multiple entry visas in Saudi Arabia from the US embassy. That at least two of the hijackers were trained at US military bases. That the FBI and CIA had prior notice of a hijacking and let the operatives proceed. That Condaleeza Rice admitted to prior knowledge of a "traditional hijacking" a short time before it occurred. That US airforce planes were not commanded to action until after the hijackers succeeded. ... At the least we can say that those who fabricated stories of weapons of mass destruction, of Iraqis welcoming US invaders, of all powerful international terrorist organizations are at the least capable of fabricating the story of 9/11.

While overwhelming evidence indicates 9/11 was an inside job, even the FBI now admits that no credible evidence points to Osama bin Laden and the 19 alleged "terrorists" as perpetrators. No trial or impartial investigation of the crime has yet occurred. In fact, the official 9/11 story, that 19 alleged hijackers with box-cutters fooled the best military/defense system in the world, is itself an outrageous conspiracy theory. Certainly these men, at least six of whom are still alive, lacked the motivation and the ability to carry out the attacks by themselves. Certainly, 9/11 was not an "intelligence failure," as the government/media complex has characterized it. Rather, 9/11 was an elaborate hoax, a staged "war pretext incident," engineered to fool the American people into accepting wars of aggression abroad as well as a rollback of their civil liberties. As such, 9/11 is a typical example of "state-sponsored, false-flag terrorism" and a covert, "black op" orchestrated by rogue elements within the U.S. government. It is "false-flag" because it was blamed on a political target group, the Muslims.

Robert Baer wrote: "Until we get a complete, honest, transparent investigation--not one based on 'confession' extracted by torture -- we will never fully know what happened on 9/11."

Man, you have way too much time on your hands. Get a hobby.
 
#98
#98
South Park had a very logical answer to this question: Who caused 9/11? A bunch of pissed off Muslims.
 
It makes someone feel really smart to think they have something so far fetched figured out while the rest of us ignorant sheep just don't get it. That would be some of my take on it.
 

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