Ok let's say we concede the fact that

[Orange_Crush]

Ummm, we gave up more rushing yards and total yards against Missouri than any FBS team they faced this year. That includes such powerhouses as Toledo, Indiana, and Arkansas State. The only FBS team they beat by a larger margin than us was Kentucky. And we are the only team they've faced all year who hasn't managed to score at least double digit points against them. I think it's pretty fair to say, yes, we "played worse."

We also gave up record numbers against Oregon, which runs a very similar, running spread option offense as both AU and MO. While we showed better against USCe and UGA, who run primarily pro style offenses.

So, as opposed to "regression" we've sucked against running spread options all year.

And for the record, the change in QB would cover your point about point differential, since our offense has all but tanked.

:hi:

 

[87Vol]

Makes perfect sense, but you have to realize that most on here spent 3 years defending Dooley. We could lose all of our games for the next two years and some of them would still refuse to hold Butch Jones accountable.

Bingo. The overwhelming majority of our fan base are just cheerleading sunshine pumpers, who going to blindly support the coach through the first 3-4 years, no matter how bad the results are. Stupidly, they are not willing to hold a coaching staff and athletic department accountable for showing progress at every step along the way.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I don't need to support that assertion. Coach Jones supports it because he talks a lot about it all the time- that special teams is about heart. It is 11 guys who want to earn more playing time and trying to show what they can do. Western Carolina, Arkansas State and Florida Atlantic played better on special teams against Auburn than we did. Did they have more talent than us or just better coaching?

That's a different assertion than "buying into a staff".

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

He had one really great year there with Cam. With the same basic players he leaves and they only win 3 games with zero conference wins. The next year he comes back they are one win away from an SECw championship.

Yes, I'm asking how that happens playing in the SECw, with a converted DB playing QB, and with a defense that is on par with UTs.

If you can't figure it out, I am not qualified to help you. I would suggest you seek professional help. And I am not being funny. If CGM was failing at AU, you would then have to ask yourself WHY? That would be a better question. You act as if their QB never played the position before. He was a 4* QB/ATH/DB in HS that played CB at UGA and was a Dual Threat QB in Jr. College. It's not like he is a converted DE or NT.

 

[utvolCO]

I think comparing the AU and UT situations....it looks like regression by comparison. Again, AU is one win away from playing for a SEC championship. How about that for tempered AU expectations at the beginning of the year? I'm sure they would have been happy with 7 wins, not knowing anything else.

I would think USC this year would be a better comparison for Auburn than UT. How can USC go from losing games they really should not to winning the ones they are now after kiffin is gone.

You actually did make a good point there. I have been waiting for someone to raise that point but it still doesn't explain the special teams play which is all about the team buying into the coaching staff.

I have heard it stated that special teams play has a lot to do with depth and it would be an area that shows lack of quality depth. We can't ignore the fact that at key positions some players are taking way too many snapes per game because of depth.

Let's see how they look against Vandy after a bye -week.

 

[Sandvol]

Oh... So this is a case where you are trying to make the argument that the staff sucks. It's not about what you know or don't know, but about you successfully making a point, despite facts that you already know. I got ya.

That still doesn't change the fact the team has regressed in other areas besides Quarterback play. I didn't expect us to do that well offensively against Auburn because of the freshman Quarterback but the score got out of hand because of special teams play. And, it was pretty poor against Missouri. But why should I bring up points to support your side of the debate if you're not aware enough to recognize them yourself?

 

[Sandvol]

That's a different assertion than "buying into a staff".

No not really.

 

[TucsonVol]

There are so many variables involved to just make all these snap judgements. We have to show more patience than expectation. In time, the reality will expose itself...it's just too soon to tell.

Sounds like coach speak to me.....

 

[Sandvol]

I would think USC this year would be a better comparison for Auburn than UT. How can USC go from losing games they really should not to winning the ones they are now after kiffin is gone.



I have heard it stated that special teams play has a lot to do with depth and it would be an area that shows lack of quality depth. We can't ignore the fact that at key positions some players are taking way too many snapes per game because of depth.

Let's see how they look against Vandy after a bye -week.

I have always heard and coaches talk about special teams being about heart and desire...aka Texas A&M's 12th man. But, I agree and hope they turn it around against Vanderbilt.

 

[Sandvol]

About this time next year.

I think it will be before this time next year.

 

[jasonvol18]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

We lost to the #1 team in the nation on the road, another top 10 team on the road with a true Fr making his first start and home to #6 AU who just put up 600 yards on GA and AU also put up close to 500 yards on LSU and well over 200 of those yards were on the ground. I underestimated how good AU is playing and Ala I dont even need to point that out. Our guys have taken a beating this year from the more unreal schedules I have ever seen. With no depth they cant be expected to not wear down. And our D with the lack of depth and lack of speed on both sides of the ball is an a$$ beating waiting to happen against fast, physical teams who can rotate stud after stud in. Depth, size, talent and speed are on the way in this class and future classes.Overall the last 2 games we are faster as a whole than Vandy and UK. If we lose either of the Vandy or UK game it will be because of effort and coaching, not mismatches. But I dont think effort or Coaching will be a problem and having an off week after playing 4 straight against SC, Ala, Mizzou and AU to rest, heal and recharge the batteries is huge in trying to go get bowl eligible. Plus the motivation of that embarrasing a$$ beating to Franklin and his mouth last year should more than have our Vols ready.

 

[rjd970]

If you can't figure it out, I am not qualified to help you. I would suggest you seek professional help. And I am not being funny. If CGM was failing at AU, you would then have to ask yourself WHY? That would be a better question. You act as if their QB never played the position before. He was a 4* QB/ATH/DB in HS that played CB at UGA and was a Dual Threat QB in Jr. College. It's not like he is a converted DE or NT.

If you follow this line of thinking, then the natural conclusion is Chizik, a National Championship coach, really was that awful. It really was all Mahlzan. Its hard to ask if CGM was failing, because that would mean he would be finishing the season with less than 3 wins. Its hard to go down from where AU was last year.

That may have some merit. But the one year turnaround is amazing. Like I said, if AU was to finish 8-4, or even 7-5, everything you are saying would make sense. Something else is going on....either CGM is really that freaking great, or CBJ is underperforming.

 

[Sandvol]

Bingo. The overwhelming majority of our fan base are just cheerleading sunshine pumpers, who going to blindly support the coach through the first 3-4 years, no matter how bad the results are. Stupidly, they are not willing to hold a coaching staff and athletic department accountable for showing progress at every step along the way.

That is my concern because I propose that you can often tell right away if a coach is going to be successful. I am very concerned how this season ends.

 

[Sandvol]

We lost to the #1 team in the nation on the road, another top 10 team on the road with a true Fr making his first start and home to #6 AU who just put up 600 yards on GA and AU also put up close to 500 yards on LSU and well over 200 of those yards were on the ground. I underestimated how good AU is playing and Ala I dont even need to point that out. Our guys have taken a beating this year from the more unreal schedules I have ever seen. With no depth they cant be expected to not wear down. And our D with the lack of depth and lack of speed on both sides of the ball is an a$$ beating waiting to happen against fast, physical teams who can rotate stud after stud in. Depth, size, talent and speed are on the way in this class and future classes.Overall the last 2 games we are faster as a whole than Vandy and UK. If we lose either of the Vandy or UK game it will be because of effort and coaching, not mismatches. But I dont think effort or Coaching will be a problem and having an off week after playing 4 straight against SC, Ala, Mizzou and AU to rest, heal and recharge the batteries is huge in trying to go get bowl eligible. Plus the motivation of that embarrasing a$$ beating to Franklin and his mouth last year should more than have our Vols ready.

That is a reasonable approach. These next two games will be big for CBJ.

 

[golf437]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

Lets see not much talent, lack of speed makes it hard to get better.

 

[soda23]

UT's defense played each of those teams on par with pretty much everyone else that has played them. UT began playing their 3rd string, freshman QB at the beginning of that run.

Wrong on Auburn . Every FBS team Auburn has played has held Auburn to fewer points than us and all by double digits except Fla Atlantic, who held them to 8 fewer.

 

[knoxvols11]

comparing Auburn versus Tennessee is comparing apples to oranges. Would you "others" not concede the point that it is OK to expect the team to improve or at least "stay the same" and not regress from game to game like they have done for the last three games? Should we not expect their special teams play to at least continue to get better and not worse as the season progresses?

Uh, yeah!

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

If you follow this line of thinking, then the natural conclusion is Chizik, a National Championship coach, really was that awful. It really was all Mahlzan. Its hard to ask if CGM was failing, because that would mean he would be finishing the season with less than 3 wins. Its hard to go down from where AU was last year.

That may have some merit. But the one year turnaround is amazing. Like I said, if AU was to finish 8-4, or even 7-5, everything you are saying would make sense. Something else is going on....either CGM is really that freaking great, or CBJ is underperforming.

You got it. Apparently Chizik was an awful coach. Malzhan is there and they win the NC. He leaves and they suck. It's not hard to figure out. Some of you all try and make it like Malzhan, Saban, or another coach could come here and be pushing for the SECE. That line of thinking is so far from the truth. Just like life, you can't compare what you have to what someone else has. Everyones situation is TOTALLY different.

 

[jasonvol18]

If you follow this line of thinking, then the natural conclusion is Chizik, a National Championship coach, really was that awful. It really was all Mahlzan. Its hard to ask if CGM was failing, because that would mean he would be finishing the season with less than 3 wins. Its hard to go down from where AU was last year.

That may have some merit. But the one year turnaround is amazing. Like I said, if AU was to finish 8-4, or even 7-5, everything you are saying would make sense. Something else is going on....either CGM is really that freaking great, or CBJ is underperforming.

Auburn had players last year. One thing they didnt have was a QB that was even serviceable. The first and second string QB's weren't even on the roaster. Not to mention Chizzik pulled a Fulmer with his OC hire that was completely opposite of what had been ran there for years and didnt have the QB or players to run the new style offense. Wasn't smart by either Coach knowing they were already on the hotseat. AU had no identity or flow to their offense last season. Take away Chizziks 13-0 his overall record at AU want that great. He benefited having Cam and a very good offense and Nick Fairley and a really solid DLine. AU has had talent, they just needed the right guy. Just like Dooley bring in Sal in a very Hotseat year, they completely switched defensive schemes and didnt have the players to run it. So our last 2 Coach firings came after complete scheme overhaul on one side of the ball or the other. Hopefully the last for a very long time.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Sometimes I wonder how some of our fans can be so out of touch with reality. Some of them are the type to march into their bosses office on the first day and demand a raise, and if they don't get it, something is wrong with the boss.

 

[sjt18]

The D over the past 3 games has performed about on par with the other opponents of those teams. So... Competition... Talent... And all that jazz...

Sorry... but no. Auburn avg's 39 ppg. They scored 55 vs UT. The only team to allow them more rushing yardage is a 2-9 FCS school. They rushed for 120 yds over their avg against UT. The only team to allow them more points was WCU. The next highest point total against an FBS school is 45. WSU, Ark St, FAU, and Arkansas are the immensely TALENTED D's that managed to hold Auburn to fewer points and rushing yards.

Mizzou avg's 470 ypg vs FBS schools. They had 502 yds vs UT behind their back up QB. UT "held" them to 8pts under their season scoring avg... but that was primarily because they chose to run the ball... for about 100 yds more than their season avg. The "powerhouses" of Toledo, Indiana, and Vandy lost by fewer points than UT did. Only Murray St (a 5-6 FCS team) allowed Mizzou more rushing yds. UT allowed them 339 yds... the next highest FBS total was vs Indiana at 280. UK allowed MU more than 100 yds less on the ground than UT and 75 less total O... of course they're "fast" and talented, right?

Bama avg's 39 ppg vs all competition. Scored 45 vs UT. Avg's 446 ypg total O, had 479 vs UT. They scored the same number of points vs Georgia St as they did UT. They scored 48 against UK. That FAST, TALENTED D from Colorado St held Bama to 14 fewer points than UT's D did.

 

[Sandvol]

Lets see not much talent, lack of speed makes it hard to get better.

How many 4 and 5 stars do we have on the offensive and defensive lines? Randolph was an AJC super 11, McNeil was a 4 star no. 8 safety, Coleman was no.16 in state of Georgia, Sutton is playing great, Johnson was a 4 star top 100 linebacker, Brent Brewer was a 4 star out of high school, Byron Moore was a 5 star. How many secondary and wide receivers run 4.5 or better? There is a difference between speed and reacting. We have speed but we are not reacting. That is coaching.

 

[Bigorangedad3528]

Hello!!! Boy the sunshine pumpers are sure not gonna be your friend with logical posts like that !!!

Don't use logic Sandvol, and temper your expectations to fall in line, or else you'll rain on somebody's Big Orange "feel good" parade around here.

Just wondering what you thought Tennessee's record would be at the start of the year?

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Sorry... but no. Auburn avg's 39 ppg. They scored 55 vs UT. The only team to allow them more rushing yardage is a 2-9 FCS school. They rushed for 120 yds over their avg against UT.

Mizzou avg's 470 ypg vs FBS schools. They had 502 yds vs UT behind their back up QB. UT "held" them to 8pts under their season scoring avg... but that was primarily because they chose to run the ball... for about 100 yds more than their season avg. The "powerhouses" of Toledo, Indiana, and Vandy lost by fewer points than UT did. Only Murray St (a 5-6 FCS team) allowed Mizzou more rushing yds. UT allowed them 339 yds... the next highest FBS total was vs Indiana at 280. UK allowed MU more than 100 yds less on the ground than UT and 75 less total O... of course they're "fast" and talented, right?

Bama avg's 39 ppg vs all competition. Scored 45 vs UT. Avg's 446 ypg total O, had 479 vs UT. They scored the same number of points vs Georgia St as they did UT. They scored 48 against UK. That FAST, TALENTED D from Colorado St held Bama to 14 fewer points than UT's D did.

You do know what AVERAGE means right? Just checking...

 

[87Vol]

We lost to the #1 team in the nation on the road, another top 10 team on the road with a true Fr making his first start and home to #6 AU who just put up 600 yards on GA and AU also put up close to 500 yards on LSU and well over 200 of those yards were on the ground. I underestimated how good AU is playing and Ala I dont even need to point that out. Our guys have taken a beating this year from the more unreal schedules I have ever seen. With no depth they cant be expected to not wear down. And our D with the lack of depth and lack of speed on both sides of the ball is an a$$ beating waiting to happen against fast, physical teams who can rotate stud after stud in. Depth, size, talent and speed are on the way in this class and future classes.Overall the last 2 games we are faster as a whole than Vandy and UK. If we lose either of the Vandy or UK game it will be because of effort and coaching, not mismatches. But I dont think effort or Coaching will be a problem and having an off week after playing 4 straight against SC, Ala, Mizzou and AU to rest, heal and recharge the batteries is huge in trying to go get bowl eligible. Plus the motivation of that embarrasing a$$ beating to Franklin and his mouth last year should more than have our Vols ready.

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh, Waaaaaaaaaahhhhh !!!

Wow, so many excuses in one post that I lost count. However, no amount of excuses is sufficient to account for the fact that we have shown no improvement at all over the Doofus regime. Even if the W-L record was the same, we should at least be holding this coaching staff accountable for not showing at least some competitive improvement. Plus, we have regressed in all phases of the game as the year has gone on. That is unacceptable. Butch and this so called "best staff in America", needed to prove that they were capable of getting these players to overachieve at least a little bit, but it didn't happen. There is no excuse for it, PERIOD.