Olympic Athlete Turns Her Back on the US Flag as Star Spangled Banner Played

#226
#226
BisonVol said:
I've come around on pro athletes protesting during the anthem before league games. I may not agree with their message, but they have a right to express themselves in that manner if their employer permits it.

However, unlike with pro sports, in the Olympics you aren't representing a franchise and a league, you're representing only your country. If one feels so much disdain for their home country that they can't even bear to look at the nation's flag while the anthem is being played, why represent that nation in the Olympics? Boycott it.
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I could be wrong, but I think some are putting too much weight in the idea of representation at the Olympics. I personally have a hard time imagining that representing your country is one of the main motives for an athlete to compete in the Olympics. That's not to say that it isn't a factor, but I imagine the first things on their minds are money, fame, and competition. I doubt any activist-athlete thinks "I'm going to stick it to them by sitting out the Olympics." I speculate it's much more likely they think "I can stick it to them by [insert form of protest at the Olympics] WHILE getting paid and competing." As a matter of fact, if someone really has a problem with their country, I have a hard time seeing any reason for them to not take the opportunity to protest at the Olympics. It literally is the best and most effective stage for doing so if you're an Olympic-level athlete.
 
#227
#227
BisonVol said:
I've come around on pro athletes protesting during the anthem before league games. I may not agree with their message, but they have a right to express themselves in that manner if their employer permits it.

However, unlike with pro sports, in the Olympics you aren't representing a franchise and a league, you're representing only your country. If one feels so much disdain for their home country that they can't even bear to look at the nation's flag while the anthem is being played, why represent that nation in the Olympics? Boycott it.
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Especially when the IOC sponsors a team of Refugees fleeing persecution. I'm sure she thinks she qualifies.
 
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#228
#228
Chris4Vols22 said:
Believe it or not, an athlete can want to make money, compete, be a proud American, and be unhappy with America all at the same time.
😲🤯🤯🤯
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Believe it or not, an athlete representing America can protest on their own time and not try to shame their country while being given the privilege to represent it. You seem to think going to the Olympics is their right. It's not. It's very much a privilege.


Shocking, I know.
 
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#229
#229
Weezer said:
Believe it or not, an athlete representing America can protest on their own time and not try to shame their country while being given the privilege to represent it. You seem to think going to the Olympics is their right. It's not. It's very much a privilege.


Shocking, I know.
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While I disagree with our Olympic athletes using the games for protests I think that the fact they can do it without fear of government reprisal shows what a great example we are.
 
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#230
#230
hog88 said:
While I disagree with our Olympic athletes using the games for protests I think that the fact they can do it without fear of government reprisal shows what a great example we are.
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Except there normally is reprisal in the form of suspension, after the fact though. And if an athlete makes known their intention to use the Olympic stage to protest, I have zero problem with the USOC exercising their authority to prevent them from going to the games. The USOC is not a government funded organization. They're a privately funded non-profit corporation. It's not a case of the government depriving anyone of freedom of speech.

As I said previously, I support protest, but there's a time and place. I don't think the time and place is when you've been given the privilege to represent your country on an international stage.
 
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#231
#231
Weezer said:
Except there normally is reprisal in the form of suspension, after the fact though. And if an athlete makes known their intention to use the Olympic stage to protest, I have zero problem with the USOC exercising their authority to prevent them from going to the games. The USOC is not a government funded organization. They're a privately funded non-profit corporation. It's not a case of the government depriving anyone of freedom of speech.

As I said previously, I support protest, but there's a time and place. I don't think the time and place is when you've been given the privilege to represent your country on an international stage.
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USOC can do as they please and I support that.
 
#233
#233
This is my problem with the form of protest being discussed. What or who are you appealing to? The countries you'd be reaching out to are not diverse at all, and or have much worse records on human rights than we do.
 
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#235
#235
Chris4Vols22 said:
I could be wrong, but I think some are putting too much weight in the idea of representation at the Olympics. I personally have a hard time imagining that representing your country is one of the main motives for an athlete to compete in the Olympics. That's not to say that it isn't a factor, but I imagine the first things on their minds are money, fame, and competition. I doubt any activist-athlete thinks "I'm going to stick it to them by sitting out the Olympics." I speculate it's much more likely they think "I can stick it to them by [insert form of protest at the Olympics] WHILE getting paid and competing." As a matter of fact, if someone really has a problem with their country, I have a hard time seeing any reason for them to not take the opportunity to protest at the Olympics. It literally is the best and most effective stage for doing so if you're an Olympic-level athlete.
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Whether or not it was her motivation, she will be representing our country on an international stage. It isn't a lot to ask for her to either look at or at least pretend to look at the flag of the country she's representing while the anthem is being played.

On a closing note, who exactly do you think she stuck it to with this protest? From my perspective, the only people she stuck it to are the two she finished behind by making herself the center of attention.
 
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#237
#237
hog88 said:
While I disagree with our Olympic athletes using the games for protests I think that the fact they can do it without fear of government reprisal shows what a great example we are.
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We are. They arent.

We all have the right to do all kinds of things, it is the choices we make while possessing all that freedom that speaks to the kind of person.
 
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#238
#238
BisonVol said:
I've come around on pro athletes protesting during the anthem before league games. I may not agree with their message, but they have a right to express themselves in that manner if their employer permits it.

However, unlike with pro sports, in the Olympics you aren't representing a franchise and a league, you're representing only your country. If one feels so much disdain for their home country that they can't even bear to look at the nation's flag while the anthem is being played, why represent that nation in the Olympics? Boycott it.
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The Olympics are a massive, corrupt as hell, business
 
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#239
#239
Weezer said:
Believe it or not, an athlete representing America can protest on their own time and not try to shame their country while being given the privilege to represent it. You seem to think going to the Olympics is their right. It's not. It's very much a privilege.


Shocking, I know.
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I think it's a right? Not sure where you're pulling that from. IOC are the ones in charge, and if they allow a protest, so be it. If they don't, so be it.

You see how you're going on about it being some kind of sacred hallowed spiritual event? You've got to understand that not everyone thinks that way. I think my previous post pretty clearly illustrates that.

If you want to be upset about all of this, go for it. You're upset about someone being upset about America. This whole forum is a dedication to everything that everyone hates about America. The possibility of the protest being done at the Olympics doesn't diminish the pettiness of being upset about someone being upset about America. What you're feeling is most likely solely you projecting your personal values on someone else and being mad that they don't do what you want them to do. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
#240
#240
Chris4Vols22 said:
I think it's a right? Not sure where you're pulling that from. IOC are the ones in charge, and if they allow a protest, so be it. If they don't, so be it.

You see how you're going on about it being some kind of sacred hallowed spiritual event? You've got to understand that not everyone thinks that way. I think my previous post pretty clearly illustrates that.

If you want to be upset about all of this, go for it. You're upset about someone being upset about America. This whole forum is a dedication to everything that everyone hates about America. The possibility of the protest being done at the Olympics doesn't diminish the pettiness of being upset about someone being upset about America. What you're feeling is most likely solely you projecting your personal values on someone else and being mad that they don't do what you want them to do. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Funny, I thought them protesting at a sporting event was them projecting their personal values on everyone else....

Seems like you're projecting on me.


The IOC and the USOC have said they don't want protests. As they are in charge, they are very much allowed to ask that, and IMO, the athletes given the privilege to compete should respect their wishes, and save their protests for their own time. While competing and on the medal stand is not their own time. Just like a football player at a football game is not on his own time. I'm all for athletes using their prestige to support and protest for their causes, but firmly believe that it should happen on their time.
 
#241
#241
BisonVol said:
Whether or not it was her motivation or not, she will be representing our country on an international stage. It isn't a lot to ask for her to either look at or at least pretend to look at the flag of the country she's representing while the anthem is being played.

On a closing note, who exactly do you think she stuck it to with this protest? From my perspective, the only people she stuck it to are the two she finished behind by making herself the center of attention.
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On the other side of the coin, it isn't a lot to ask for an athlete to use the time and space of the Olympic games as they please if it doesn't impede the games or hurt anyone. My personal opinion is that the Olympics are likely these athletes' biggest moments and opportunities of their lives. Who am I to say what they should or shouldn't do?

Someone definitely got stuck because here we are on VolNation debating the events of a track & field Olympic qualifier medal ceremony that happened in Oregon.
 
#242
#242
Weezer said:
Funny, I thought them protesting at a sporting event was them projecting their personal values on everyone else....

Seems like you're projecting on me.


The IOC and the USOC have said they don't want protests. As they are in charge, they are very much allowed to ask that, and IMO, the athletes given the privilege to compete should respect their wishes, and save their protests for their own time. While competing and on the medal stand is not their own time. Just like a football player at a football game is not on his own time. I'm all for athletes using their prestige to support and protest for their causes, but firmly believe that it should happen on their time.
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Bro, I only chimed in after you repeated yourself several times. I invited you, and still invite you, to correct me if I'm wrong.

You're 100% right, these protests do project values. That is the point. They want you to see from their side. I'm guessing you want them to do it on their own time so that it reduces the chances of you hearing about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The point I'm driving at is that maybe their are scenarios in which you can't wrap your head around someone's beliefs, motives, and intentions. If you still want to be upset about it, go for it. Much like the actions if this athlete, your opinion, and my opinion for the matter, are not hurting anyone. If you think national pride is a good enough reason to say athletes shouldn't protest given the opportunity and stage of a lifetime at an event that they earned a deliberate invitation from the IOC, that's where I disagree.
 
#243
#243
Chris4Vols22 said:
On the other side of the coin, it isn't a lot to ask for an athlete to use the time and space of the Olympic games as they please if it doesn't impede the games or hurt anyone. My personal opinion is that the Olympics are likely these athletes' biggest moments and opportunities of their lives. Who am I to say what they should or shouldn't do?

Someone definitely got stuck because here we are on VolNation debating the events of a track & field Olympic qualifier medal ceremony that happened in Oregon.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. No point in rehashing the same arguments over and over.
 
#244
#244
BisonVol said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. No point in rehashing the same arguments over and over.
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Fair enough. I think your line in the sand with the Olympic games is interesting. I see the logic in your argument. I obviously don't agree, but I think this is the first time I've heard this take.
 
#245
#245
Chris4Vols22 said:
Bro, I only chimed in after you repeated yourself several times. I invited you, and still invite you, to correct me if I'm wrong.

You're 100% right, these protests do project values. That is the point. They want you to see from their side. I'm guessing you want them to do it on their own time so that it reduces the chances of you hearing about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The point I'm driving at is that maybe their are scenarios in which you can't wrap your head around someone's beliefs, motives, and intentions. If you still want to be upset about it, go for it. Much like the actions if this athlete, your opinion, and my opinion for the matter, are not hurting anyone. If you think national pride is a good enough reason to say athletes shouldn't protest given the opportunity and stage of a lifetime at an event that they earned a deliberate invitation from the IOC, that's where I disagree.
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I think the fact they're being asked not to protest by people giving them the chance of a lifetime to compete on a world stage should be good enough reason. Not sure why that's so hard to see? When someone invites you into their home, you don't **** on their couch. It has nothing to do with their cause or how important they deem their cause. If it's that important to them, then they should have zero problem protesting on their own time. It comes back to competing at the Olympics being a privilege. Their ability earns them an invitation, but it's still an invitation.

As for their causes, some I agree with, some I don't, but I think all of them should respect what has been asked of them by those who have invited them.
 
#246
#246
Weezer said:
I think the fact they're being asked not to protest by people giving them the chance of a lifetime to compete on a world stage should be good enough reason. Not sure why that's so hard to see? When someone invites you into their home, you don't **** on their couch. It has nothing to do with their cause or how important they deem their cause. If it's that important to them, then they should have zero problem protesting on their own time. It comes back to competing at the Olympics being a privilege. Their ability earns them an invitation, but it's still an invitation.

As for their causes, some I agree with, some I don't, but I think all of them should respect what has been asked of them by those who have invited them.
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Lol dude I'm on your side in that the Olympics are in charge. My beef is that you're blatantly advocating suppression, which obviously illustrates one of the main points of protests in general, and you're deliberately ignoring and discounting what the protestors say they're standing for. Do you not see how those actions are textbook procedures for oppression? I'm not trying to be hyperbolic - you're obviously not some terrible tyrant. I just clearly see a microcosm of the reasons behind the protests that you're upset about within your own argument against them.
 
#247
#247
Chris4Vols22 said:
Lol dude I'm on your side in that the Olympics are in charge. My beef is that you're blatantly advocating suppression, which obviously illustrates one of the main points of protests in general, and you're deliberately ignoring and discounting what the protestors say they're standing for. Do you not see how those actions are textbook procedures for oppression? I'm not trying to be hyperbolic - you're obviously not some terrible tyrant. I just clearly see a microcosm of the reasons behind the protests that you're upset about within your own argument against them.
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It's not suppression when you agree to follow their established rules. It's silly to call it that. And it's not as if these rules are new. No one is forcing them to compete, it's a choice.
 
#248
#248
Weezer said:
It's not suppression when you agree to follow their established rules. It's silly to call it that. And it's not as if these rules are new. No one is forcing them to compete, it's a choice.
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I agree with that. I'm moreso addressing your voiced disdain of the anthem protests at sporting events in general - I think we agree that your reasoning behind the disdain is a substantial chunk of the motivation behind the protests. Don't play dumb. You're not.

Apologies for side tracking this debate into the Olympics area. My intended original counter to your argument is that you're willfully ignoring and discounting what protestors are saying they're standing for and subsequently act like you know what their motivations are. Your disdain is based on the fallacious presumption. I see no problem with disagreeing on an issue, but there are obvious problems when people gaslight each other.
 
#250
#250
Chris4Vols22 said:
I agree with that. I'm moreso addressing your voiced disdain of the anthem protests at sporting events in general - I think we agree that your reasoning behind the disdain is a substantial chunk of the motivation behind the protests. Don't play dumb. You're not.

Apologies for side tracking this debate into the Olympics area. My intended original counter to your argument is that you're willfully ignoring and discounting what protestors are saying they're standing for and subsequently act like you know what their motivations are. Your disdain is based on the fallacious presumption. I see no problem with disagreeing on an issue, but there are obvious problems when people gaslight each other.
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At football games, the players are not on their own time. The owners have chosen to allow them to protest. That's on the owners. I disagree with protesting while you're basically on the clock. Not sure what you think you know about me, but that's my chief gripe. Whether you're a professional or Olympic athlete, what they're doing amounts to protesting on someone else's dime. Why do you think I keep calling for them to do it on their OWN time? Why do most of them, not all but it seems most, not do more on their OWN time? You don't get paid to protest. Most people would get fired for bringing their politics to work in such a way. So why do we create a completely different standard for athletes? I don't care what their motivation is because they make a mockery of what they claim to stand for by participating in such a double standard. I believe in some of the same causes, but I do not support how they protest.
 
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