Omnipotence and Omnibenevolence

[therealUT]

The Gospel today was a selection from Matthew 13, the wheat and the weeds. My questions are, assuming God is the Master in the parable:

If Satan sews the weeds in the night, then are all sinners Satan's creation?

Does Christian theology say that all humans are sinners?

Are all humans part of Satan's creation?

Can God, an omnibenevolent being, create evil?

If not, then should God, an omnibenevolent being, do everything in his power to keep evil from being created?

If so, then is God omnipotent, if evil exists?

Does evil exist?

 

[tvolsfan]

You go to church?

 

[therealUT]

You go to church?

Every Sunday. I sit silently, listen to the service, and read the Bible. Figure if I want God to send a Revelation, I will at least make the effort to meet him in a supposed House of God.
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[JayVols]

You go to church?

trut's good people. Talk with a person for a while and you get to know their heart. He is more than capable of defending himself, but many of you have this atheistic mocking heathen picture of him. That's not true. (Sorry if I messed up your image, man).

As to the question, I don't know the answer for sure. The way I understand is that God didn't create evil, but allows Satan to 'do his thing' on earth. If God had wanted automatons to walk around praising him, he would have created them. IMO, it is so much more special for one to choose to believe and follow rather than have no choice. My thoughts that are not intended to be taken as concrete facts.
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[IBlvNTmWrk]

The Gospel today was a selection from Matthew 13, the wheat and the weeds. My questions are, assuming God is the Master in the parable:

If Satan sews the weeds in the night, then are all sinners Satan's creation?

No. Satan does not create life.

Does Christian theology say that all humans are sinners?

We are all born of sin.

Are all humans part of Satan's creation?

Being born of sin is not the same as being created by Satan.

Can God, an omnibenevolent being, create evil?

I believe God is omnipotent, so yes. Many different views of omnibenevolence (e.g. what makes someone good... loving, justice, mercy, etc.).

If not, then should God, an omnibenevolent being, do everything in his power to keep evil from being created?

By doing everything, do you mean take away free will?

If so, then is God omnipotent, if evil exists?

Answered above.

Does evil exist?

Yes. See Lane Kiffin.

 

[JayVols]

No. Satan does not create life.



We are all born of sin.



Being born of sin is not the same as being created by Satan.



I believe God is omnipotent, so yes. Many different views of omnibenevolence (e.g. what makes someone good... loving, justice, mercy, etc.).



By doing everything, do you mean take away free will?



Answered above.



Yes. See Lane Kiffin.

Good summation, especially the last line. Home run, imo.
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[ToineMac]

No. Satan does not create life.



We are all born of sin.



Being born of sin is not the same as being created by Satan.



I believe God is omnipotent, so yes. Many different views of omnibenevolence (e.g. what makes someone good... loving, justice, mercy, etc.).



By doing everything, do you mean take away free will?



Answered above.



Yes. See Lane Kiffin.

Well put
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[Chris4Vols22]

One of the reasons I have difficulty assigning credibility to the religion JMO. Please don't evangelize me.

 

[ToineMac]

One of the reasons I have difficulty assigning credibility to the religion JMO. Please don't evangelize me.

I don't want to evangelize you at all but what do you mean?
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[Chris4Vols22]

I'm not willing to discuss any further (nothing against you or anyone else ). Just wanted to comment on the OP.

 

[tvolsfan]

trut's good people. Talk with a person for a while and you get to know their heart. He is more than capable of defending himself, but many of you have this atheistic mocking heathen picture of him. That's not true. (Sorry if I messed up your image, man).

I certainly don't think he's a bad person. I'm just surprised that someone who used to be a Christian (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), but stopped believing would still be going to church.

 

[justingroves]

trut's good people. Talk with a person for a while and you get to know their heart. He is more than capable of defending himself, but many of you have this atheistic mocking heathen picture of him. That's not true. (Sorry if I messed up your image, man).

As to the question, I don't know the answer for sure. The way I understand is that God didn't create evil, but allows Satan to 'do his thing' on earth. If God had wanted automatons to walk around praising him, he would have created them. IMO, it is so much more special for one to choose to believe and follow rather than have no choice. My thoughts that are not intended to be taken as concrete facts.
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That's about how I see it.

You're given the opportunity to do what you want but those choices have consequences.

 

[JayVols]

I certainly don't think he's a bad person. I'm just surprised that someone who used to be a Christian (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), but stopped believing would still be going to church.

I understand. I guess my point was that he is not at all close minded in reference to religion.
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[therealUT]

I certainly don't think he's a bad person. I'm just surprised that someone who used to be a Christian (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong), but stopped believing would still be going to church.

I am not atheist; I am agnostic. From my understanding, religions are revealed not reasoned to. Until I receive a revelation, I cannot be religious; however, since I think such a revelation would ultimately clarify a lot about the world and, hopefully, make life easier to deal with, I try to meet God at "his place". At least that way, I can always say I tried.

 

[Lexvol]

Does foreknowledge=predestination?

 

[therealUT]

Does foreknowledge=predestination?

I would argue that it does not; I would also argue that one could have the same level of free-will without the option to commit evil upon others, maybe just inflict evil upon themselves, if there must be evil.

Currently, humans have free-will, but such freedom is constrained by our physical abilities. I do not see why it would be so terrible to further limit our free-will to good, wholesome options.

 

[tvolsfan]

I am not atheist; I am agnostic. From my understanding, religions are revealed not reasoned to. Until I receive a revelation, I cannot be religious; however, since I think such a revelation would ultimately clarify a lot about the world and, hopefully, make life easier to deal with, I try to meet God at "his place". At least that way, I can always say I tried.

Fair enough. I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[therealUT]

Fair enough. I hope you find what you're looking for.

I do, too; however, if I don't, I will still have enjoyed the fascination of the search.

 

[tvolsfan]

I understand. I guess my point was that he is not at all close minded in reference to religion.
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I wasn't saying that he was. I just didn't think he would be the type of person going to church. I don't mean to be insulting by that. I consider myself to be strong in faith, but I still don't think I would go to church that often if not for my parents telling me to do so.

 

[sjt18]

The Gospel today was a selection from Matthew 13, the wheat and the weeds. My questions are, assuming God is the Master in the parable:

If Satan sews the weeds in the night, then are all sinners Satan's creation?

The seed doesn't represent people. It represents the good seed of the gospel. In the sense of being in rebellion against God, all sinners are indeed the children (seed) of Satan's original rebellion.

Does Christian theology say that all humans are sinners?

Yes.

Are all humans part of Satan's creation?

No. All error, false teachings, and attempted substitutes for the pure gospel are the creation of Satan.

Can God, an omnibenevolent being, create evil?

No. Nothing created by a direct act of God is evil.

If not, then should God, an omnibenevolent being, do everything in his power to keep evil from being created?

At the base of this may be a false assumption about the purpose of creation. The short answer is that God chose to give man free will... a moral choice instead.

If so, then is God omnipotent, if evil exists?

You seem to have used a "rigid" and narrow interpretation of the text plus your own presuppositions about what God must or must not do to try to box Him into a corner.

God is omnipotent. He is not responsible for evil coming into the world.

Does evil exist?

Yes. Rebellion and rejection of God in all of their forms... even those that seem good to men... are evil.

 

[Chris4Vols22]

I am not atheist; I am agnostic. From my understanding, religions are revealed not reasoned to. Until I receive a revelation, I cannot be religious; however, since I think such a revelation would ultimately clarify a lot about the world and, hopefully, make life easier to deal with, I try to meet God at "his place". At least that way, I can always say I tried.

Excellent way to look at it IMO. JMO.

 

[tvolsfan]

I do, too; however, if I don't, I will still have enjoyed the fascination of the search.

What do you think about the religion and the bible itself? Just curious.

 

[Lexvol]

I would argue that it does not; I would also argue that one could have the same level of free-will without the option to commit evil upon others, maybe just inflict evil upon themselves, if there must be evil.

Currently, humans have free-will, but such freedom is constrained by our physical abilities. I do not see why it would be so terrible to further limit our free-will to good, wholesome options.

From the early allegorical accounts just about everything was wholesome/pure/holy(for the evangelicals on the board). 9 out of 10 options were in fact wholesome and perfect, yet in humanity with the free will chose the 10% over the 90.

 

[sjt18]

I understand. I guess my point was that he is not at all close minded in reference to religion.
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That is not apparent when he uses terms like "myth" and worse to mock Christians and Christianity.

 

[therealUT]

God is omnipotent. He is not responsible for evil coming into the world.



Yes. Rebellion and rejection of God in all of their forms... even those that seem good to men... are evil.

Fundamentally, I cannot reconcile these views with the presumption that God is omnibenevolent. Either he created evil, which would, in my opinion, reduce his "pure-goodness" or, as you stated, he is not "responsible for it", which would reduce his omnipotence (or, if he allowed it but did not create it, again this poses a threat to his goodness).

The only persuasive arguments I have seen for theism, regarding "evil", is that "evil" does not exist. Augustine posits such a line of thought in The Confessions and then makes a logical defense of it. Personally, I think that without omniscience, humans can never state that evil actually exists; we can only state that what we perceive to be evil exists, yet we do not know all the circumstances surrounding these "evil events/sufferings" and, therefore, cannot conclusively state that evil does exist.

Unfortunately, central tenets of all the major religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism) are that evil does exist. This is another reason that, unless I receive a compelling and personal revelation, I cannot be a religious.