Omnipotence and Omnibenevolence

#76
#76
KiffinKiller said:
good for you? people pushing their beliefs on me make me uncomfortable - strange that this helped you.
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you call it being uncomfortable, i consider it being the work of the Holy Spirit in you, which is convicting you. which is exactly what the Bible talks about.

Do you think you would be uncomfortable is someone talked to you about islam or the tibet religion?
 
#77
#77
so you're saying being uncomfortable during a conversation about religion isn't just another example of uncomfortable conversation, but the holy spirit forcing itself into my body? gotcha
 
#78
#78
KiffinKiller said:
so you're saying being uncomfortable during a conversation about religion isn't just another example of uncomfortable conversation, but the holy spirit forcing itself into my body? gotcha
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not discussing religion, but being witnessed to. big difference.
 
#79
#79
so when joe evangelist comes to my door I am witnessing something supernatural? This is an interesting new path you're going down.
 
#80
#80
KiffinKiller said:
so when joe evangelist comes to my door I am witnessing something supernatural? This is an interesting new path you're going down.
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i don't know if it's supernatural. obviously you feel nervous and uncomfortable, so it speaks of it's self.
 
#81
#81
not nervous - just uncomfortable. Because it's not something I normally talk about. Does this explain it? Or is it easier to assume the holy spirit is invading my subconcious?
 
#82
#82
KiffinKiller said:
not nervous - just uncomfortable. Because it's not something I normally talk about. Does this explain it? Or is it easier to assume the holy spirit is invading my subconcious?
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he's not invading your subsoncious it's your concious.

look, i felt the same way before I became a Christian. If i saw some one witnessing or handing out tracks, i would immediately cross the road or avoid them at any cost.
 
#83
#83
So the fact that you avoided evangelists is supposed to help your argument? I'll let you know when the invasive spirit forces me to have an epiphany...
 
#84
#84
The discmfort could simply be caused by understanding hat this person, and most of society, looks at the areligious as if they are lackin in virtue; at times, it can be quite exhuasting to defend one's position that lies on the outside of societal norms. On the reverse side, comfort in Church can easily be granted by a feeling of society.

To base your faith on the comfort or lack thereof of others or oneself is a little ridiculous.
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#85
#85
therealUT said:
The discmfort could simply be caused by understanding hat this person, and most of society, looks at the areligious as if they are lackin in virtue; at times, it can be quite exhuasting to defend one's position that lies on the outside of societal norms. On the reverse side, comfort in Church can easily be granted by a feeling of society.

To base your faith on the comfort or lack thereof of others or oneself is a little ridiculous.
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Cannot believe this is being discussed.
 
#86
#86
KiffinKiller said:
Cannot believe this is being discussed.
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Why would this be surprising considering this is a thread about God?

Not that Joevol needs defending, but just in reading the past few posts it appears to me that his initial post was taken out of context. The complete assumption that he felt good because someone else felt uncomfortable discussing religion is not at all what he was saying... as he explained later.

Second, most who believe in God (and certainly Christianity) also believe in the Holy Spirit. And as stated in numerous places in the Bible, the Holy Spirit can be convicting.

On the other hand, I completely understand where you are coming from. I've seen people have some very emotional responses in churches and other gatherings. Some might say this was a result of the holy spirit, and some might say they were just caught up in the moment. I might fall somewhere in the middle.

For example, I've expressed very similar "emotional responses" while watching UT play football. That said, I guess I just don't see why someone would somewhat attack or question a guy for posting a religious type response into a religious type thread.
 
#87
#87
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Why would this be surprising considering this is a thread about God?

Not that Joevol needs defending, but just in reading the past few posts it appears to me that his initial post was taken out of context. The complete assumption that he felt good because someone else felt uncomfortable discussing religion is not at all what he was saying... as he explained later.

Second, most who believe in God (and certainly Christianity) also believe in the Holy Spirit. And as stated in numerous places in the Bible, the Holy Spirit can be convicting.

On the other hand, I completely understand where you are coming from. I've seen people have some very emotional responses in churches and other gatherings. Some might say this was a result of the holy spirit, and some might say they were just caught up in the moment. I might fall somewhere in the middle.

For example, I've expressed very similar "emotional responses" while watching UT play football. That said, I guess I just don't see why someone would somewhat attack or question a guy for posting a religious type response into a religious type thread.
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He said that a spirit was making me uncomfortable. If this discomfort is the same as the discomfort I get during small talk, then can I safely assume the spirit wants me to pay attention to john's theory on why the weather is hot today?
 
#88
#88
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Why would this be surprising considering this is a thread about God?

Not that Joevol needs defending, but just in reading the past few posts it appears to me that his initial post was taken out of context. The complete assumption that he felt good because someone else felt uncomfortable discussing religion is not at all what he was saying... as he explained later.

Second, most who believe in God (and certainly Christianity) also believe in the Holy Spirit. And as stated in numerous places in the Bible, the Holy Spirit can be convicting.

On the other hand, I completely understand where you are coming from. I've seen people have some very emotional responses in churches and other gatherings. Some might say this was a result of the holy spirit, and some might say they were just caught up in the moment. I might fall somewhere in the middle.

For example, I've expressed very similar "emotional responses" while watching UT play football. That said, I guess I just don't see why someone would somewhat attack or question a guy for posting a religious type response into a religious type thread.
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Are you saying that someone of faith would not feel good about having that faith strengthened?

I think it is completely reasonable to infer that JoeVol gets an intrinsically good feeling when he makes others uncomfortable as he perceives this to strengthen his faith. I also think that is something he needs to reconcile with the idea of Christian charity.

Further, I think the most beautiful theme of Christianity is the idea that Christ suffered greatly so that others would suffer less; if a Christian is looking to model their life on Christ's then I think that person sould try to suffer more so that others suffer less. Making others uncomfortable for one's own benefit seems counter to that theme.
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#89
#89
therealUT said:
Are you saying that someone of faith would not feel good about having that faith strengthened?

I think it is completely reasonable to infer that JoeVol gets an intrinsically good feeling when he makes others uncomfortable as he perceives this to strengthen his faith. I also think that is something he needs to reconcile with the idea of Christian charity.
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It's completely irrational. I'm not saying being faithful is irrational - im saying seeing discomfort as a sign of existence is.
 
#90
#90
KiffinKiller said:
He said that a spirit was making me uncomfortable. If this discomfort is the same as the discomfort I get during small talk, then can I safely assume the spirit wants me to pay attention to john's theory on why the weather is hot today?
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You are certainly free to assume whatever you would like. All Joevol said, imo, is what he believed to be the case. I don't believe he was trying to force that opinion on anyone else.

therealUT said:
Are you saying that someone of faith would not feel good about having that faith strengthened?

I think it is completely reasonable to infer that JoeVol gets an intrinsically good feeling when he makes others uncomfortable as he perceives this to strengthen his faith. I also think that is something he needs to reconcile with the idea of Christian charity.

Further, I think the most beautiful theme of Christianity is the idea that Christ suffered greatly so that others would suffer less; if a Christian is looking to model their life on Christ's then I think that person sould try to suffer more so that others suffer less. Making others uncomfortable for one's own benefit seems counter to that theme.
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Regarding the bolded question above... I don't think that is what I'm saying. If I am, please help me understand where I said that.

As to your second statement, as stated previously... you are free to infer (whether it is reasonable or not) whatever you would like. Joevol did not say that he gets a "good feeling" when others are uncomfortable, he said (iirc) it confirms his faith. Further, he is not the one "making people uncomfortable" per your statement.

Concerning your final paragraph, I would tend to agree for the most part and I believe the Bible does as well. The only exception might be your last sentence, unless I just don't understand what you are saying. I don't see where Joevol was trying to make anyone uncomfortable for his own benefit.
 
#92
#92
IBlvNTmWrk said:
You are certainly free to assume whatever you would like. All Joevol said, imo, is what he believed to be the case. I don't believe he was trying to force that opinion on anyone else.



Regarding the bolded question above... I don't think that is what I'm saying. If I am, please help me understand where I said that.

As to your second statement, as stated previously... you are free to infer (whether it is reasonable or not) whatever you would like. Joevol did not say that he gets a "good feeling" when others are uncomfortable, he said (iirc) it confirms his faith. Further, he is not the one "making people uncomfortable" per your statement.
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JoeVol, do you gain pleasure when you feel your faith in your God is strengthened?

I think that by proselytizing, one is causing another, who does not want to be proselytized to, uncomfortable.
 
#93
#93
KiffinKiller said:
So you're saying we're all working on assumptions? Completely irrational.
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What? You asked in your post if you could make an assumption. I agreed that you are free to do so. Where did I claim we are all working on assumptions? The only irrationality I see is your post... Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.
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#94
#94
KiffinKiller said:
So you're saying we're all working on assumptions? Completely irrational.
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EVERYONE works on assumptions about the nature of reality. That statement is both rational and true. It is irrational to attempt to deny it... in favor of course of one of the three basic assumptions.

I will give you an example. The materialist believes that all that is real is material... physical and obedient to predictable laws of nature. When he encounters a problem like how the first life came to exist... he does not know but is fully confident that a materialistic answer can and will be found.

A spiritualist believes that all that is real is immaterial. What we perceive as "material" is nothing more than the collective creation of our combined consciousness. Faced with the same scientific problem... he would say that the problem itself is not "real" but rather a conflict within the consciousness.

Can you categorically prove the spiritualist wrong?
 
#95
#95
IBlvNTmWrk said:
What? You asked in your post if you could make an assumption. I agreed that you are free to do so. Where did I claim we are all working on assumptions? The only irrationality I see is your post... Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.
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You said I was making assumptions...Joevol said everytime he evangelizes - discomfort is the the holy spirit at work. That is an assumption at best.
 
#96
#96
My point is that you said I was free to assume, but said Joevol's viewpoint didn't need defending because it was a religious response. In my point of view - his whole argument is a large assumption.
 
#97
#97
KiffinKiller said:
good for you? people pushing their beliefs on me make me uncomfortable - strange that this helped you.
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Are you sure about that as a general rule? Are you sure your beliefs are not a product of someone, somewhere pushing their beliefs on you either overtly or in a subtle, less direct way?
 
#98
#98
Sorry. I wasn't specific enough. People pushing their religious beliefs on me make me uncomfortable (christian, buddist, daoist, scientologist...doesn't matter).
 
#99
#99
According to Isaiah 45:7, God does create evil.

Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
 
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