On Hopson's Last Shot

[bumzaway]

Mich State had an inexperienced point guard. When pressure was FINALLY put on him he couldn't run the team. It took Pearl waaay too long to recognize this.

PLUS with 1.8 seconds to go -- why is Brian Williams at half court?

Of course, it's tough to do anything with 1.8 -- but you set up with Williams at half court? Is Pearl kidding??!!

 

[utkCREW]

I completely forgot. in 2008 rivals ranked S. Hopson as the #2 Shooting Guard, and 5th overall player coming out of highschool.

I really want to see him excell, not just for us, but for himself.

 

[tonybologna]

PLUS with 1.8 seconds to go -- why is Brian Williams at half court?

He set the pick to get Prince open for the last shot. That's why! It's smart basketball because Brian can set good picks with his big body.

 

[arTfuldodger]

A contested shot doesn't include a foul when your down 1 with seconds left. Worked out for them yes. But a contested shot is a hand that makes him alter his shot and or takes away view. Not hitting his lower forearm as he releases. Really guys? That shouldn't have to be explained to anyone on a bball forum. Find your way back to the fball land if you don't understand that.
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[WA_Vol]

This is exactly right. If it wasn't contested, then how was there a foul called?

Your other point is also right on the money; you drive the ball to the rim in that situation. One, it's probably an easier shot to make, and two, it gives us a really good shot at a putback.

:good!:

A contested shot doesn't include a foul when your down 1 with seconds left. Worked out for them yes. But a contested shot is a hand that makes him alter his shot and or takes away view. Not hitting his lower forearm as he releases. Really guys? That shouldn't have to be explained to anyone on a bball forum. Find your way back to the fball land if you don't understand that.
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Just because the defender hit his elbow when trying to defend him doesn't mean it wasn't a contested shot. You are reaching here.

 

[arTfuldodger]

:good!:


Just because the defender hit his elbow when trying to defend him doesn't mean it wasn't a contested shot. You are reaching here.

Ironic verbage. To me, that's not contested shot. To any D1 shooter, that's a "contest" they will welcome to every shot they attempt. Obviously he got there late, hence the foul. Its like RB breaking a 62 yarder on you and you angle him out of bounds and proclaim that you "stopped the run". Technically? Yes. For all practical purposes? No. Unless you call the chance that the rebound/transition would work as it did, a "practical purpose". Watch the Mst reaction to the foul as a tell tale sign of what kind of "contest" it was. (Izzo too)
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[arTfuldodger]

I should add that I personally wouldve driven to the basket as well. That doesn't make Scotty's shot a "poor choice" tho.
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[BasketvolsFan]

Ironic verbage. To me, that's not contested shot. To any D1 shooter, that's a "contest" they will welcome to every shot they attempt. Obviously he got there late, hence the foul. Its like RB breaking a 62 yarder on you and you angle him out of bounds and proclaim that you "stopped the run". Technically? Yes. For all practical purposes? No. Unless you call the chance that the rebound/transition would work as it did, a "practical purpose". Watch the Mst reaction to the foul as a tell tale sign of what kind of "contest" it was. (Izzo too)
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Of course you are correct. On most fouls, the shot is not in any way contested. Contact with the shooter does not equate to contested.

 

[NYC Vol]

you take a shot with 6 or 7 seconds left, which gives you enough time to rebound and put up another shot. why would want to give them the ball back and give them a shot to win it? that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. how many times have you seen a team go up one or 2 w/ 10 seconds or less, and the other team gets the ball goes down and wins the game.

Honestly dude, stop. You're WRONG.

You can't assume that you're going to make that shot. Not when you're offense, the entire year, has been inefficient. Our calling card the entire year has been our defense. Our best bet was to try to get a score, any kind of score, with whatever time was left on the clock.

What you're missing is this. Ask ANY coach in the country if they would prefer to be down a point with the ball or up a point and defending. EVERY SINGLE COACH would prefer to be up a point. You don't get to choose a perfect scenario when you're down a point.

So you take the first good shot available. If you make it, you get your butt back on defense. If you miss, you try to rebound. If you don't rebound, you foul and try to give yourself 10 seconds to get the ball upcourt for another try (probably down 3).

I think the biggest thing Pearl is second guessing himself for is keeping our guys on the line during Hopson's FT. Getting an offensive rebound is a low percentage play and we probably have a better chance of the official calling a foul on us going for the rebound, giving MSU a 1 and 1 situation. If we pull our guys off the line, we have our guys back on defense and they're set. No worries about scrambling back on defense and leaving a man wide open.

I understand that Hopson's not a great FT shooter and there may be an offensive rebound opportunity or if he makes, we want to pressure them up the court. But in hindsight, I think the rebound is a low percentage play and you can still have Goins or Maze pressure them full court after they rebound or if they have to inbound it.

But back to the original point, down one you can't try to get the perfect shot. You try to get the best shot you can when you have the ball with 27 seconds to go. When the clock runs down inside 15 seconds, you take whatever good look you can get and take your chances on defense, which is what got us to the Elite 8.

 

[NYC Vol]

Mich State had an inexperienced point guard. When pressure was FINALLY put on him he couldn't run the team. It took Pearl waaay too long to recognize this.

Ummmm....Lucious was pressured the entire game. There's a reason why he went 1-7 in the game and missed the front end of a one and one late in the game. He was dog tired from being pressured from the moment he would catch the ball. Maze and Goins were all over him as he brought the ball up the court.

But yes, I think it took Pearl at least 3 minutes into film study to recognize this. He should have noticed this 2 minutes instead.

 

[lylsmorr]

I love how pretty much every response in this thread has "Well, if you knew anything about basketball" or "ask any coach in the country". There's no right or wrong here. It might have helped to get to half court then call timeout, or it might have been better to get the ball then run with it in hopes of a prayer shot with no defense to contest it(i.e. Evan turner against Michigan).

 

[arTfuldodger]

I love how pretty much every response in this thread has "Well, if you knew anything about basketball" or "ask any coach in the country". There's no right or wrong here. It might have helped to get to half court then call timeout, or it might have been better to get the ball then run with it in hopes of a prayer shot with no defense to contest it(i.e. Evan turner against Michigan).

Are you talking ab JP's last shot or hopson's?
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[lylsmorr]

Are you talking ab JP's last shot or hopson's?
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Some were arguing about both shots, I believe. I would have rather seen Chism take that shot instead of Hopson because of his size, but Hopson was more than capable of taking that shot.

 

[arTfuldodger]

Yeh. I'm with ya. There were definately different options, and my first thought after the game regarding the shot(SHop) was that he adjusted to what the D did. I'm still not sure he was supposed to shoot it, but he chose to and I don't think it was a bad choice at all given the circumstances. And I wouldve liked to have seen cam, Josh.+ Melvin all on the floor on the last set (JP) but its nothing to gripe about.
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[NYC Vol]

Anyone still think Hopson took that shot too early? What would Butler give for their team to shoot that shot with 10 seconds to go instead of 5 seconds?

 

[LawVol13]

Anyone still think Hopson took that shot too early? What would Butler give for their team to shoot that shot with 10 seconds to go instead of 5 seconds?

They got a good shot. I thought it was in when it left the guy's hand. They just simply did not foul quick enough when Zoubek got the board.

 

[NYC Vol]

They got a good shot. I thought it was in when it left the guy's hand. They just simply did not foul quick enough when Zoubek got the board.

Yeah, they should have fouled him that half second sooner. That's what got them.

They got a tough shot, but it was from their best player.

But back to the point. So you're saying you don't think Butler wishes that shot was taken with about 10 seconds to go?

Stevens did a great job. Butler was trying to score there from the second they took possession of the ball. But Duke played great defense. Butler had a chance when they drove the lane with about 15 seconds to go but the ball was tipped out of bounds. They were trying to score but Duke played great defense.

 

[GAVol]

They got a good shot. I thought it was in when it left the guy's hand. They just simply did not foul quick enough when Zoubek got the board.

It was a fade away rainbow. Not a bad shot since it was at least the guy they wanted shooting it, but I don't think it was really a shot they would have taken unless in a desperation situation.

 

[LawVol13]

It was a fade away rainbow. Not a bad shot since it was at least the guy they wanted shooting it, but I don't think it was really a shot they would have taken unless in a desperation situation.

Yea. I would have rather seen them bring the good post player up and pick and roll with Hayward, but I thought Hayward's shot was going in; I thought they shot about when they should have. They just didn't immediately foul and lost a couple crucial seconds there.

 

[QuickdrawMcVols]

hell, I thought both of his shots were going in. Was laying on the floor in my living room after each.

 

[Unimane]

Yea. I would have rather seen them bring the good post player up and pick and roll with Hayward, but I thought Hayward's shot was going in; I thought they shot about when they should have. They just didn't immediately foul and lost a couple crucial seconds there.

Law, I had left the conversation, but I wanted to point out that tonight's game is exactly why Scotty's shot was at the right time. It's amazing how identical the sitautions were, one point game, final seconds, etc....

Anyway, the way the game ended was why Butler was looking for an earlier shot. Butler fouled Zoubek as fast as reasonably possible, you typically can't get a foul called in that situation without losing a second or two.

So, in our game, Scotty took a shot 5 seconds earlier than did Heyward. Say the same scenario as tonight plays out and Scotty misses, then we foul. Well, now, we have about 8 seconds instead of the 3 Butler had. That's the difference between getting to the three point line or the basket and a half court shot that Butler had.

It's exactly why you take the shot as soon as possible (a good look) in those situations and why Butler was trying to do so.

 

[LawVol13]

Law, I had left the conversation, but I wanted to point out that tonight's game is exactly why Scotty's shot was at the right time. It's amazing how identical the sitautions were, one point game, final seconds, etc....

Anyway, the way the game ended was why Butler was looking for an earlier shot. Butler fouled Zoubek as fast as reasonably possible, you typically can't get a foul called in that situation without losing a second or two.

So, in our game, Scotty took a shot 5 seconds earlier than did Heyward. Say the same scenario as tonight plays out and Scotty misses, then we foul. Well, now, we have about 8 seconds instead of the 3 Butler had. That's the difference between getting to the three point line or the basket and a half court shot that Butler had.

It's exactly why you take the shot as soon as possible (a good look) in those situations and why Butler was trying to do so.

I still disagree. Because, if Hayward takes that shot with 12 seconds left and hits it and Duke comes back and scores, everyone would be saying that they should have taken the shot later and not given Duke another chance.

It's simply a difference of opinion as I noted earlier in this thread. And to refresh your memory, my problem with what you said is that you held out your way as being universally accepted, which it is not. Clark Kellogg in his analysis said the exact same thing that I said earlier, that you should take the shot with 5-9 seconds left giving you a chance to get a rebound and putback.

If you disagree, that's fine. But it's very clear that your way is not universally accepted.

 

[Unimane]

I still disagree. Because, if Hayward takes that shot with 12 seconds left and hits it and Duke comes back and scores, everyone would be saying that they should have taken the shot later and not given Duke another chance.

It's simply a difference of opinion as I noted earlier in this thread. And to refresh your memory, my problem with what you said is that you held out your way as being universally accepted, which it is not. Clark Kellogg in his analysis said the exact same thing that I said earlier, that you should take the shot with 5-9 seconds left giving you a chance to get a rebound and putback.

If you disagree, that's fine. But it's very clear that your way is not universally accepted.

I didn't hear Kellogg and he would be the first basketball person I've ever heard say this, if so.

The whole thing is that this is not an opinion,not in the sense that it is and either/or, 50-50 decision among basketball coaches. It's standard operating procedure. If Duke comes down and scores, the only people questioning the shot are a few fans, not basketball people. Did they question Maryland in the Sweet 16? Of course not, and I think Maryland was almost too late with their shot.

Like I said, and I'm not trying to be a d-bag on this statement, ask any coach, any one. They will tell you the same.

 

[SaintBruce]

I didn't hear Kellogg and he would be the first basketball person I've ever heard say this, if so.
.

Uh yea, he said it about 5 times.

Even after Hayward missed he said "I still think he took that shot at the right time."

 

[NYC Vol]

Uh yea, he said it about 5 times.

Even after Hayward missed he said "I still think he took that shot at the right time."

I like Clark, but he's wrong. Of course, he also said Zoubek didn't cleark out Howard on that rebound.

I'll go with Bruce and Brad Stevens over Clark. You try to score the ball to get the lead. Having a 1 point lead with 30 seconds to go is much better than having a 1 point deficit with any time left.