Only program with 6plus national titles in 2 sports?

#76
#76
tvolsfan said:
True, but one of them was the first year of the poll and I think Tennessee was still ranked 1 by a clear majority of selectors.
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Eh, that's splitting hairs. The AP had been going for 14 years. And of the contemporary selectors, Oklahoma won 5 and Tennessee won 2. The other 4 that Tennessee won were all retroactive. Princeton won 2 contemporary selectors as well.

Regardless, 1950 was the first year that national championships were considered "consensus", and OU was the only consensus champion that year.
 
#78
#78
hatvol96 said:
To a great extent because they have to burn funds on Title IX mandated money pits. You know, like women's basketball.
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Got you. So the departments like Vandy and MTSU who hardly draw a crowd for football games would be profitable without women's basketball. That makes sense, at least in hat's world of logic.
 
#79
#79
bamawriter said:
Eh, that's splitting hairs. The AP had been going for 14 years. And of the contemporary selectors, Oklahoma won 5 and Tennessee won 2. The other 4 that Tennessee won were all retroactive. Princeton won 2 contemporary selectors as well.

Regardless, 1950 was the first year that national championships were considered "consensus", and OU was the only consensus champion that year.
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I'm not sure the consensus champion argument is really that much better. If it was just AP and Coaches, I'd agree, but I'm pretty sure there are 'consensus' champions whose claims look ridiculous. (Like Ohio State in 1961)
 
#80
#80
BJSforVols said:
There are teams in all sports in which the athletic department does not support. Big east football is a prime example for football.
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BJSforVols said:
Got you. So the departments like Vandy and MTSU who hardly draw a crowd for football games would be profitable without women's basketball. That makes sense, at least in hat's world of logic.
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Not sure what you're trying to argue, but don't be ridiculous. If women's basketball was a big deal. there's no way UT and UCONN would have been as dominant, unless they're both cheating, a lot.
 
#81
#81
BJSforVols said:
Got you. So the departments like Vandy and MTSU who hardly draw a crowd for football games would be profitable without women's basketball. That makes sense, at least in hat's world of logic.
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That's not what he said. Some schools' ADs wouldn't make a profit because they don't have the support for any of their programs.

However, there are some schools that support football and men's basketball and still lose money overall because they have no choice but the sink money into non-revenue sports.

There are about 15 to 20 schools whose ADs are in the black. That number was more than doubled prior to Title IX.
 
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#82
#82
tvolsfan said:
I'm not sure the consensus champion argument is really that much better. If it was just AP and Coaches, I'd agree, but I'm pretty sure there are 'consensus' champions whose claims look ridiculous. (Like Ohio State in 1961)
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That's why I argued that FWAA is a major selector to a lesser extent. Those selections are considered consensus. They're still pretty lame, but they are consensus. UT doesn't even have a weak claim to a consensus title in 1950.
 
#83
#83
That's kind of what I'm saying, though. Do you honestly know which polls were considered important by people in 1950, and was the FWAA in 1961 much better than whatever polls selected Tennessee in 1950?
 
#84
#84
tvolsfan said:
Not sure what you're trying to argue, but don't be ridiculous. If women's basketball was a big deal. there's no way UT and UCONN would have been as dominant, unless they're both cheating, a lot.
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Does this mean Duke, Carolina, and KY have all been cheating a lot in Men's basketball?

BTW, According to Summit, UCONN has been cheating a lot. lol
 
#85
#85
BJSforVols said:
Does this mean Duke, Carolina, and KY have all been cheating a lot in Men's basketball?

BTW, According to Summit, UCONN has been cheating a lot. lol
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None of those 3 teams you mentioned have had the kind of dominance UT and UCONN have had over the last 25 seasons.
 
#86
#86
I didn't realize womens basketball was major revenue producing sport. May want to check the budgets pretty sure they are living off football.. Besides there are 6 maybe 7 programs that actually care about women's basketball..
 
#87
#87
bamawriter said:
That's not what he said. Some schools' ADs wouldn't make a profit because they don't have the support for any of their programs.
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He also pointed at Women's basketball as the reason when there are many other Title IX sports which are far less profitable than Women's Basketball. When debating with half truths, it's fair to counter with other half truths.

bamawriter said:
However, there are some schools that support football and men's basketball and still lose money overall because they have no choice but the sink money into non-revenue sports.
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And one could argue a programs such as the big east and Vandy could be profitable without football due to the success of the basketball programs.

bamawriter said:
There are about 15 to 20 schools whose ADs are in the black. That number was more than doubled prior to Title IX.
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Not debating that. Women's Basketball is not the only Title IX sport though. I'm sure all of these lacross programs are pulling their weight though.


In all honesty, how many major schools do you think drop women's basketball if Title IX went away?
 
#88
#88
Manvol said:
I didn't realize womens basketball was major revenue producing sport. May want to check the budgets pretty sure they are living off football.. Besides there are 6 maybe 7 programs that actually care about women's basketball..
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All sports (including Men's Basketball) live off football for the most part.
 
#89
#89
tvolsfan said:
None of those 3 teams you mentioned have had the kind of dominance UT and UCONN have had over the last 25 seasons.
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It's not as far off as you think. In the 90s, TN and UCONN won a combination of 5 tournies whereas Duke and KY won a combination of 4 tournies. In the 2000s, TN and UCONN have won 8 combined whereas Duke, FL, and Caroline have won 6 combined.


Sports often run in streaks, and both the men and womens basketball programs within the NCAA have seen this.
 
#90
#90
BJSforVols said:
It's not as far off as you think. In the 90s, TN and UCONN won a combination of 5 tournies whereas Duke and KY won a combination of 4 tournies. In the 2000s, TN and UCONN have won 8 combined whereas Duke, FL, and Caroline have won 6 combined.


Sports often run in streaks, and both the men and womens basketball programs within the NCAA have seen this.
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It's not just about who wins the tournament. How often is a regular season women's b-ball game on national TV that does not include either Tennessee or UConn?
 
#91
#91
bamawriter said:
It's not just about who wins the tournament. How often is a regular season women's b-ball game on national TV that does not include either Tennessee or UConn?
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quite often but TN and UCONN do typically get the majority of the prime spots just as Indy seems to be the team currently getting the majority of the prime spots for NFL. The prime spots for Men's basketball are similar.

I don't know that tv during the regular season for basketball is a good arguement for either side though. Basketball doesn't really get ratings until the tournament arrives.
 
#92
#92
BJSforVols said:
quite often but TN and UCONN do typically get the majority of the prime spots just as Indy seems to be the team currently getting the majority of the prime spots for NFL. The prime spots for Men's basketball are similar.

I don't know that tv during the regular season for basketball is a good arguement for either side though. Basketball doesn't really get ratings until the tournament arrives.
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Regular season men's basketball gets decent, if not spectacular, ratings. Women's basketball does not. Heck, the women's tourney doesn't really move the needle that much.

And I'm not not knocking women's basketball. I actually went to a ton of women's games in college. I'm just not going to pretend like it belongs in the same breath as football or men's basketball. Or college baseball, for that matter.
 
#93
#93
bamawriter said:
Regular season men's basketball gets decent, if not spectacular, ratings. Women's basketball does not. Heck, the women's tourney doesn't really move the needle that much.

And I'm not not knocking women's basketball. I actually went to a ton of women's games in college. I'm just not going to pretend like it belongs in the same breath as football or men's basketball. Or college baseball, for that matter.
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I think we agree more than we disagree. I don't think Women's basketball is comparable to Football or Men's basketball in popularity. I do think it compares in competetiveness which was what I was arguing with the Tourny champion information.

I would not question anyone saying football and/or men's basketball is ahead of Women's basketball as the major sports at a school, but it's hard for me to see where there is another sport oither than Women's basketball that would fit the bill for #3. It doesn't mean Women's basketball is close to the top two. It only means there is a clear cut #1 (football) and #2 (Men's basketball) and then the other sports. Out of the other sports, Women's basketball has a strong arguement as being #3.

The only area where we disagree slightly is College baseball versus Women's basketball in popularity. I think Women's basketball is more popular than college baseball, and I'm a big baseball fan. There was a time baseball was my favorite sport above football, but the last MLB strike caused me to stop following baseball as much as I once did. Heck, I think the college softball worl series gets better ratings than the college baseball world series, but that's just based on personal feedback I hear around where I live.
 
#94
#94
BJSforVols said:
I think we agree more than we disagree. I don't think Women's basketball is comparable to Football or Men's basketball in popularity. I do think it compares in competetiveness which was what I was arguing with the Tourny champion information.

I would not question anyone saying football and/or men's basketball is ahead of Women's basketball as the major sports at a school, but it's hard for me to see where there is another sport oither than Women's basketball that would fit the bill for #3. It doesn't mean Women's basketball is close to the top two. It only means there is a clear cut #1 (football) and #2 (Men's basketball) and then the other sports. Out of the other sports, Women's basketball has a strong arguement as being #3.

The only area where we disagree slightly is College baseball versus Women's basketball in popularity. I think Women's basketball is more popular than college baseball, and I'm a big baseball fan. There was a time baseball was my favorite sport above football, but the last MLB strike caused me to stop following baseball as much as I once did. Heck, I think the college softball worl series gets better ratings than the college baseball world series, but that's just based on personal feedback I hear around where I live.
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well, if true, women's basketball better enjoy it while it lasts.

the SEC (i know it's one league) has teams building 10,000 stadiums and a lot of them fill them up on baseball weekends. a ole miss-miss state baseball weekend will put more people in seats than will watch ole miss women's basketball all season.

the college world series also is gaining popularity.

you might say that people in michigan don't care about college baseball. that would be true, but they don't care about women's basketball either.
 
#95
#95
BJSforVols said:
All sports (including Men's Basketball) live off football for the most part.
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Patently false. At most of D-I, football loses money. They aren't even feeding themselves, let alone basketball. At the New Mexico States, UTEPs, and Memphises of the world, basketball is the revenue driver.
 
#96
#96
hatvol96 said:
Patently false. At most of D-I, football loses money. They aren't even feeding themselves, let alone basketball. At the New Mexico States, UTEPs, and Memphises of the world, basketball is the revenue driver.
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At most D-I programs, the entire athletic department loses money, so the departments aren't even feeding themselves. With that said, football still contributes more when you look at D-I as a whole and thus the other sports feed off football. I'm sure we can pick a school or two up North where hockey drives the revenue, but that doesn't mean all other sports feed off hockey when considering all D-I athletic departments as a whole.
 
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#98
#98
BJSforVols said:
Got you. So the departments like Vandy and MTSU who hardly draw a crowd for football games would be profitable without women's basketball. That makes sense, at least in hat's world of logic.
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It makes perfect sense, you apparently missed the logic as it flew over your head.
 
#99
#99
bamawriter said:
That's what I figured.

But that's still 12 really solid claims. Not too shabby.
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Ha!! Far from it!!!

They have seven legit titles no where near twelve "not to shabby ones"!
How in the world did they ever decide to do this. Shows what they are. We have 4 legit ones, but we could claim like 14 if we wanted.

Read this, mmmkay, bamer is a joke!!!!!!!!
12 National Championships For Bama? Let's Take A Closer Look - Track Em Tigers

tvolsfan said:
Agreed, except I'd say that Tennessee claiming 6 is no different than Bama claiming 12. The 1941 title just stands alone, IMO.
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It is very different, we have two questionable ones they have six. Most have a few questionable ones, but bamer just shows how ridiculous they are! 1941 is the craziest but they have plenty of CRAZY ones!!!!!!
 
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