Oregon counties/Join Idaho vote

#176
#176
LouderVol said:
Why?

Seems like it's a majority vote in those areas. Why wouldnt we at least entertain them changing their status?

Seems like a similar situation to DC.
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I see it as different to DC's situation. DC as the national capital is supported by the rest of the country. I believe the Founders' reasoning was that because of that support it should be kept politically neutral and unable to vote to benefit itself. That makes sense.
Unfortunately it's overgrown its boundaries and leaks into NoVa and Md. Maybe we should add a few counties from the burbs to DC's territory, or create a new federal capital in BF Nevada with plenty of room.
 
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#178
#178
TheDeeble said:
Coworker of mine plans to retire to Idaho in a year or two. I’d start looking up Idaho stuff online at work to see what she’s moving to and it sounds great. Beautiful country, weather sounds good. If I ever get to retire I honestly plan on checking it out more thoroughly to see if I’d want to move up there.

A more moderate climate with little to no humidity sounds awesome.
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One important thing to remember if you look at Idaho for retirement is that if you move to the southern part of the state, Boise etc. you will be living in a Mormon community. Outsiders don't always do well in Mormon communities. It's pretty much impossible to develop a good community of friends, you will always be an outsider.

Decades ago a history prof of mine said Idaho is the only state in the union with two capitals, Spokane WA and Salt Lake City UT. And he was right. Of course in today's world Boise has become a nice city, good place to "visit".
 
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#179
#179
GoDucks349 said:
One important thing to remember if you look at Idaho for retirement is that if you move to the southern part of the state, Boise etc. you will be living in a Mormon community. Outsiders don't always do well in Mormon communities. It's pretty much impossible to develop a good community of friends, you will always be an outsider.
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An introvert's dream.
 
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#181
#181
I haven't read all the posts on this subject, but here's a bit of history on redrawing state lines. See the State of Jefferson. This just might have happened if WWII hadn't occurred.

Jefferson (proposed Pacific state) - Wikipedia

On the subject of redrawing state lines. Maybe we should consolidate a few states. Come on ND & SD no people lots of land and they get how many senators? Merge and cut it to two same with Neb and KS. OK has lots in common with TX merge them. Why do we have RI merge it. Same with Vermont and NH and Maine.

As for Idaho give them to Utah it's large Mormon population would be happy. Merge MT and Wy as well.

And why not merge KY and TN two beautiful states that would make a good geographic state.

Of course, I'm not sure what all that would do the the balance in the Senate, but it would be more geographically representative.
 
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#182
#182
GoDucks349 said:
I haven't read all the posts on this subject, but here's a bit of history on redrawing state lines. See the State of Jefferson. This just might have happened if WWII hadn't occurred.

Jefferson (proposed Pacific state) - Wikipedia

On the subject of redrawing state lines. Maybe we should consolidate a few states. Come on ND & SD no people lots of land and they get how many senators? Merge and cut it to two same with Neb and KS. OK has lots in common with TX merge them. Why do we have RI merge it. Same with Vermont and NH and Maine.

As for Idaho give them to Utah it's large Mormon population would be happy. Merge MT and Wy as well.

And why not merge KY and TN two beautiful states that would make a good geographic state.

Of course, I'm not sure what all that would do the the balance in the Senate, but it would be more geographically representative.
Click to expand...

If the citizens in those states started a referendum and voted for those consolidations ok, "we" that don't live in those states should have no say.
 
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#183
#183
McDad said:
An introvert's dream.
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LOL, spend a little time there. Not just a week, work there for a while. No I haven't lived there, but I did quite a bit of work in southern ID some years ago. You needed Mormons to help you if you wanted to get something done. If they didn't want it done it didn't happen.
 
#184
#184
McDad said:
I agree with your premise. People want representation. Districts are gerrymandered based on that desire and a politician's desire to win elections. States cannot be gerrymandered, though.
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Why not? That's how they were formed
 
#185
#185
turbovol said:
Actually, this is largely the case: It's why 9 of the 10 poorest states in America are rural, red states--most in the South. If rural folk had their way, America would be like the early 1800s again--agrarian, no education, no taxes, no money, no jobs, horse and carriage, everybody high on jesus juice.
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There is a reason the south is poor, and dumb. It's because the north wanted it that way to stay rich. A rich/smart south would threaten the northern stranglehold on politics back in the 19th century as their population grew. So they passed laws and gerrymandered the new states to maintain their power.
 
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#186
#186
clarksvol00 said:
Nashville is the biggest tax base in the state of Tennessee. The state legislature actively punishes the local government because it is liberal. Nobody suggests that Nashville should become part of Kentucky and the legislature that is antagonizing them would never allow it.
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And....I live in Atlanta. The liberal elites in the city run the largely conservative state and actively punish conservative cities around them.

Just because the system doesnt work in multiple places but all those places arent trying to reform a state doesnt make the failed system any more valid.

If anything you are proving their point. The current system doesnt work for either side. It was never intended to. This is the inherent issue of centralized control. The one size fits all strategy doesnt work. Doesnt matter if it's a red onesie or a blue one.
 
#188
#188
McDad said:
How would one gerrymander a state with well defined, legal boundaries?
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How does one gerrymander a county with well defined legal boundaries?

The shapes of the states werent accidents. They were chosen at the time so the will of the people who lived there was represented enough for their concerns to be heard. Same reasons counties are certain sizes. We dont have a problem changing counties as things change. Why would it be different for atates?
 
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#189
#189
LouderVol said:
How does one gerrymander a county with well defined legal boundaries?

The shapes of the states werent accidents. They were chosen at the time so the will of the people who lived there was represented enough for their concerns to be heard. Same reasons counties are certain sizes. We dont have a problem changing counties as things change. Why would it be different for atates?
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Voting districts are not divided or gerrymandered along county lines. There is no predetermined, legal boundary like a county line or a state line. Because of that voting districts are easy to alter and manipulate.

I understand the state lines, when drawn, were done so intentionally. What I am asking is now that the state lines are legally standing and determined, how would a person go about gerrymandering a state?
 
#190
#190
GoDucks349 said:
One important thing to remember if you look at Idaho for retirement is that if you move to the southern part of the state, Boise etc. you will be living in a Mormon community. Outsiders don't always do well in Mormon communities. It's pretty much impossible to develop a good community of friends, you will always be an outsider.

Decades ago a history prof of mine said Idaho is the only state in the union with two capitals, Spokane WA and Salt Lake City UT. And he was right. Of course in today's world Boise has become a nice city, good place to "visit".
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She moved to Kuna Idaho. I haven't talked to her in a couple of months but next time I do I'll ask her. I think Kuna is about 10-15 min from Boise.

But I'm still a long way from retirement. 20+ years.
 
#191
#191
hog88 said:
So you oppose people in eastern OR deciding they fit better with ID than Portland?
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Yes. Go buy land in Idaho if that's what they want. Are we really going to start redrawing state borders because people hate being in a political minority?

I'm guessing Nashville and Memphis would like a different arrangement. Memphis would be interesting. Its population is large enough to affect the balance of power in Mississippi.
 
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#192
#192
WBO said:
Yes. Go buy land in Idaho if that's what they want. Are we really going to start redrawing state borders because people hate being in a political minority?

I'm guessing Nashville and Memphis would like a different arrangement. Memphis would be interesting. Its population is large enough to affect the balance of power in Mississippi.
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What's the problem with counties voting to leave a particular state?

But yeah I understand the problem and I also understand the root cause of why this is a topic and that is too much centralized power both at the state and federal level. Not to mention the fact that you wouldn't give two ***** about this if it didn'ty possibly effect the amount of electors a solidly Dem state would have. If this were the counties in NW ID wanting to be annexed into WA or OR I'm confident you would be 100% supportive.
 
#193
#193
WBO said:
Yes. Go buy land in Idaho if that's what they want. Are we really going to start redrawing state borders because people hate being in a political minority?

I'm guessing Nashville and Memphis would like a different arrangement. Memphis would be interesting. Its population is large enough to affect the balance of power in Mississippi.
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Lol Memphis is lucky to have a state that’s willing to accept it. I don’t think they’re in any position to want a different arrangement.
 
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#194
#194
GoDucks349 said:
I haven't read all the posts on this subject, but here's a bit of history on redrawing state lines. See the State of Jefferson. This just might have happened if WWII hadn't occurred.

Jefferson (proposed Pacific state) - Wikipedia

On the subject of redrawing state lines. Maybe we should consolidate a few states. Come on ND & SD no people lots of land and they get how many senators? Merge and cut it to two same with Neb and KS. OK has lots in common with TX merge them. Why do we have RI merge it. Same with Vermont and NH and Maine.

As for Idaho give them to Utah it's large Mormon population would be happy. Merge MT and Wy as well.

And why not merge KY and TN two beautiful states that would make a good geographic state.

Of course, I'm not sure what all that would do the the balance in the Senate, but it would be more geographically representative.
Click to expand...
I was born in Tennessee not Kentucky.
 
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#195
#195
GoDucks349 said:
I haven't read all the posts on this subject, but here's a bit of history on redrawing state lines. See the State of Jefferson. This just might have happened if WWII hadn't occurred.

Jefferson (proposed Pacific state) - Wikipedia

On the subject of redrawing state lines. Maybe we should consolidate a few states. Come on ND & SD no people lots of land and they get how many senators? Merge and cut it to two same with Neb and KS. OK has lots in common with TX merge them. Why do we have RI merge it. Same with Vermont and NH and Maine.

As for Idaho give them to Utah it's large Mormon population would be happy. Merge MT and Wy as well.

And why not merge KY and TN two beautiful states that would make a good geographic state.

Of course, I'm not sure what all that would do the the balance in the Senate, but it would be more geographically representative.
Click to expand...

Have you ever read the book series "The Hunger Games"? Maybe you've seen the movies. Our society is headed in that direction.
 
#196
#196
VolStrom said:
Have you ever read the book series "The Hunger Games"? Maybe you've seen the movies. Our society is headed in that direction.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've seen the movie. Scary thought, I think we are still quite a way from Hunger Games.
 
#197
#197
McDad said:
Voting districts are not divided or gerrymandered along county lines. There is no predetermined, legal boundary like a county line or a state line. Because of that voting districts are easy to alter and manipulate.

I understand the state lines, when drawn, were done so intentionally. What I am asking is now that the state lines are legally standing and determined, how would a person go about gerrymandering a state?
Click to expand...
By creating a new one at the least. I dont know why a state couldnt be redefined as needed. What happens to states with a river border when that river moves?

It becomes a real interesting paradox about what a state is as far as our federal government is concerned. Is it the people helf that state that matter, as the pure democracy folks want it? Or is it the physical land that matters as some originalist may argue?

At the least it's a mix of both, we have the two houses for a reason. But with some constitutional changes the necessity of the land is less with the direct election of senators.
 
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