Oregon counties/Join Idaho vote

#151
#151
clarksvol00 said:
I'm just trying to look out for the sanctum sanctorum for @McDad

Honestly, I think it's ludicrous to start redrawing state lines because some people who voluntarily live in a state don't get there way. What happens when people in the middle of a state dont get their way? Do they become their own state? Do they get to pick any other state they want?
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It is ludicrous. And it will never happen. So as an objection it is moot...the aspects you object to will never happen.
The problem I have is the State determines its counties. Unlike the US which asked for voluntary joining into the union, counties "belong" to the states without voluntary association.

I like the mental exercise of what it takes for a section of a state to form its own state. Don't think this forum has ever discussed that hypothetical before.
 
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#152
#152
LouderVol said:
I think you are over simplifying the issue. My understanding is that these people have some legitimate issues that arent being addressed. Infrastructure, school funding, etc, things that shouldnt be left vs right issues, but because they dont vote with the majority they dont have representation to see that their issues get better.

It's part of the fallacy of our flavor of democracy/republic. Winner takes all.

At some point it does start to look like taxation without representation if they are being ignored by the state they pay taxes to.

I havent dug in to actually see if the claims they are making are true regarding funding and some of their past complaints. But this goes far beyond them not wanting to be in the same state as the liberals in Portland.
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I agree with your premise. People want representation. Districts are gerrymandered based on that desire and a politician's desire to win elections. States cannot be gerrymandered, though.
 
#153
#153
McDad said:
It is ludicrous. And it will never happen. So as an objection it is moot...the aspects you object to will never happen.
The problem I have is the State determines its counties. Unlike the US which asked for voluntary joining into the union, counties "belong" to the states without voluntary association.

I like the mental exercise of what it takes for a section of a state to form its own state. Don't think this forum has ever discussed that hypothetical before.
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Aren't states formed by/only with consent of the federal government?
 
#154
#154
hog88 said:
What I'm getting at is states like NY and IL, they have 1 big metropolis that controls the entire state and laws passed at the state level are tailored to those metropolises.
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The opposite is true in many states that are mostly rural--have cities, but not big cities. Rural counties/politicians control half or more of the states in America---lots of religion and guns.
 
#155
#155
McDad said:
I agree with your premise. People want representation. Districts are gerrymandered based on that desire and a politician's desire to win elections. States cannot be gerrymandered, though.
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Gerrymandering should be outlawed.
 
#156
#156
clarksvol00 said:
Aren't states formed by/only with consent of the federal government?
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That's a good question. We're the areas invited to join the union colonies or states? If colonies, the the authority to designate a state is held federally. If states, I'm not sure it does.
In practice, all new states since the formation of the union have been assigned at the federal level.
 
#157
#157
NorthDallas40 said:
Now extrapolate that to government support programs which favor urban areas just due to sheer population when they already levy higher taxes for their required infrastructure.

And if the Feds would butt out on beliefs legislation as well as federal support programs and let the states handle it in their own this would settle itself out. People would live where their beliefs and taxation fits their needs.
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Actually, this is largely the case: It's why 9 of the 10 poorest states in America are rural, red states--most in the South. If rural folk had their way, America would be like the early 1800s again--agrarian, no education, no taxes, no money, no jobs, horse and carriage, everybody high on jesus juice.
 
#158
#158
LouderVol said:
I think you are over simplifying the issue. My understanding is that these people have some legitimate issues that arent being addressed. Infrastructure, school funding, etc, things that shouldnt be left vs right issues, but because they dont vote with the majority they dont have representation to see that their issues get better.

It's part of the fallacy of our flavor of democracy/republic. Winner takes all.

At some point it does start to look like taxation without representation if they are being ignored by the state they pay taxes to.

I havent dug in to actually see if the claims they are making are true regarding funding and some of their past complaints. But this goes far beyond them not wanting to be in the same state as the liberals in Portland.
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Nashville is the biggest tax base in the state of Tennessee. The state legislature actively punishes the local government because it is liberal. Nobody suggests that Nashville should become part of Kentucky and the legislature that is antagonizing them would never allow it.
 
#159
#159
clarksvol00 said:
Nashville is the biggest tax base in the state of Tennessee. The state legislature actively punishes the local government because it is liberal. Nobody suggests that Nashville should become part of Kentucky and the legislature that is antagonizing them would never allow it.
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Well liberal government has been proven to be stupid. Punish stupidity.
 
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#160
#160
Jxn Vol said:
Well liberal government has been proven to be stupid. Punish stupidity.
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Nashville makes more money for the state of Tennessee than any other area by far and the legislature is going after them because some reps from Gallatin and Bucksnort didn't get a chance to go the Republican convention and fondle the Donald.
 
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#164
#164
clarksvol00 said:
I'm just trying to look out for the sanctum sanctorum for @McDad

Honestly, I think it's ludicrous to start redrawing state lines because some people who voluntarily live in a state don't get there way. What happens when people in the middle of a state dont get their way? Do they become their own state? Do they get to pick any other state they want?
Click to expand...

Create their own state? I suppose you think WVA needs to be returned to VA?
 
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#165
#165
clarksvol00 said:
Same objection stands. Every time we lose an election, let's redraw a state line to change some votes.
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clarksvol00 said:
I'm just trying to look out for the sanctum sanctorum for @McDad

Honestly, I think it's ludicrous to start redrawing state lines because some people who voluntarily live in a state don't get there way. What happens when people in the middle of a state dont get their way? Do they become their own state? Do they get to pick any other state they want?
Click to expand...
If we accept the fable of how West Virginia was established, that is western counties far from Richmond with a different economic base and values than the eastern part of the state seceding to form their own state for better self government, what's wrong with that?
 
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#166
#166
hog88 said:
Why?
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I think redrawing state boundaries just because you live in a state where others think different than you defeats the purpose of our representative democracy. If they don't like it, let them do like the Californians and move.
 
#170
#170
EasternVol said:
If we accept the fable of how West Virginia was established, that is western counties far from Richmond with a different economic base and values than the eastern part of the state seceding to form their own state for better self government, what's wrong with that?
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Why are we discussing fables?
 
#171
#171
AshG said:
Oh, the issues of states rights and the idea of the Commonwealth. May as well just be 350m+ little countries if this is the case.
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That would be nice, then each of those countries could have one electoral vote in Fed elections.
 
#172
#172
clarksvol00 said:
I think redrawing state boundaries just because you live in a state where others think different than you defeats the purpose of our representative democracy. If they don't like it, let them do like the Californians and move.
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Wouldn't it actually be a perfect example of how a representative democracy should work? People don't feel represented so they used their democratic franchise (instead of guns) to effect change.
 
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