Other great coaches that started similar to CBJ

#26
#26
skasper06 said:
I hear ya man. I really do. And no one likes losing... especially when you are used to winning.

But what are we supposed to do? Fire every coach who has a bad year in their first year?

What if Alabama did that with Saban?

I suppose we could try to hire an already proven coach but do you really think the Nick Sabans of football will leave their pretty pedestal for a struggling program like ours?

Butch Jones didn't have head coach experience the SEC, but he has is a successful coach. And most importantly, he WANTED to be here and shows it every single day. To me, that's worth giving the man at least the same amount of time Dooley got.
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To be fair

Saban had an SEC Championship and won a NC after bringing LSU back

He was proven and why Alabama made him the highest paid coach in CFB history

Saban bought his time
 
#27
#27
skasper06 said:
I never thought fellow Vol fans could get on my nerves so much...In every aspect of the game there is so much negativity. Coaching sucks, current players give up and lack heart, our recruiting class won't stick...

Blah blah blah.

Why don't you shut up, grow some patience, and give this process some time?

Here's some news for you... Nick Saban's first year at Michigan state he went 6-5-1. His first year at Alabama he went 2-6.

Our beloved Johnny Majors went 4-7 and 5-5-1 in his first two years at Tennessee.

Les Miles went 4-7 his first year at Oklahoma State.

Pete Carrol went 6-6 his first year at USC.

Jim Tressel went 7-5 his first year at Ohio State.

Bobby Bowden went 5-6 his first year at Florida State.

The list goes on. This is a rebuilding process... We all know what Butch inherited from Dooley and Kiffin. I know we are Tennessee and I hear it all the time..."This is the University of Tennessee! This shouldn't be tolerated!"

You're right! And it isn't being tolerated... hence the changes being made albeit if the changes take some time to take affect.

The recruits are coming. Come NSD I will bet anyone on VN that we finish with a full class of at least 30 and have a top 10 class...possibly better.

Take a deep breath and remember as the old saying goes "The night is darkest just before the dawn."
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He was 7-6 his first year at Bama. 5 wins vacated.
 
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#28
#28
skasper06 said:
Butch Jones didn't have head coach experience the SEC, but he has is a successful coach. And most importantly, he WANTED to be here and shows it every single day. To me, that's worth giving the man at least the same amount of time Dooley got.
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You make a good point. But no matter what from what I understand is he'll have 3 years.
 
#29
#29
CountVolcula said:
To be fair

Saban had an SEC Championship and won a NC after bringing LSU back

He was proven and why Alabama made him the highest paid coach in CFB history

Saban bought his time
Click to expand...

So what does that mean we should do?

Fire every coach that comes in and doesn't have a winning season their first year?
 
#33
#33
skasper06 said:
Ah, my bad... but even that isn't exactly what Alabama is now.

I can throw in Bear Bryant instead if you like? He went 5-4-1 his first year at Bama.
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Your point is well taken. Good post. Just wanted to clarify.
 
#39
#39
skasper06 said:
I never thought fellow Vol fans could get on my nerves so much...In every aspect of the game there is so much negativity. Coaching sucks, current players give up and lack heart, our recruiting class won't stick...

Blah blah blah.

Why don't you shut up, grow some patience, and give this process some time?

Here's some news for you... Nick Saban's first year at Michigan state he went 6-5-1. His first year at Alabama he went 2-6.

Our beloved Johnny Majors went 4-7 and 5-5-1 in his first two years at Tennessee.

Les Miles went 4-7 his first year at Oklahoma State.

Pete Carrol went 6-6 his first year at USC.

Jim Tressel went 7-5 his first year at Ohio State.

Bobby Bowden went 5-6 his first year at Florida State.

The list goes on. This is a rebuilding process... We all know what Butch inherited from Dooley and Kiffin. I know we are Tennessee and I hear it all the time..."This is the University of Tennessee! This shouldn't be tolerated!"

You're right! And it isn't being tolerated... hence the changes being made albeit if the changes take some time to take affect.

The recruits are coming. Come NSD I will bet anyone on VN that we finish with a full class of at least 30 and have a top 10 class...possibly better.

Take a deep breath and remember as the old saying goes "The night is darkest just before the dawn."
Click to expand...

No no no. Nothing but negitivity and negavols allowed to start threads
 
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#41
#41
sjt18 said:
Sorry but no. "Depth and speed" did not cost UT the Vandy game. UT is deeper, faster, and more talented than Vandy... and it ain't close.

That is also not the reason UT got beaten like an FCS team by Oregon, Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn.
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Sjt since you are such an expert and seem to know it all... I'm very curious as to what your football credentials are. I've played a lot in my time and for some reason I just can't see eye to eye with you. :peace2:
 
#42
#42
skasper06 said:
I never thought fellow Vol fans could get on my nerves so much...In every aspect of the game there is so much negativity. Coaching sucks, current players give up and lack heart, our recruiting class won't stick...

Blah blah blah.

Why don't you shut up, grow some patience, and give this process some time?

Here's some news for you... Nick Saban's first year at Michigan state he went 6-5-1. His first year at Alabama he went 2-6.

Our beloved Johnny Majors went 4-7 and 5-5-1 in his first two years at Tennessee.

Les Miles went 4-7 his first year at Oklahoma State.

Pete Carrol went 6-6 his first year at USC.

Jim Tressel went 7-5 his first year at Ohio State.

Bobby Bowden went 5-6 his first year at Florida State.

The list goes on. This is a rebuilding process... We all know what Butch inherited from Dooley and Kiffin. I know we are Tennessee and I hear it all the time..."This is the University of Tennessee! This shouldn't be tolerated!"

You're right! And it isn't being tolerated... hence the changes being made albeit if the changes take some time to take affect.

The recruits are coming. Come NSD I will bet anyone on VN that we finish with a full class of at least 30 and have a top 10 class...possibly better.

Take a deep breath and remember as the old saying goes "The night is darkest just before the dawn."
Click to expand...

Excellent post. You have given me pause on the less than spectacular first year of Jones. Scale is always a good thing.
 
#43
#43
I'm not really sure how it is relevant what coaches did 30+ years ago, when even the best were making six figure salaries, prices were extremely low, and there was much less competition for recruits and less pressure to show results quickly.

I think it's more relevant to look at what successful SEC coaches, in this century, have done in their first seasons. I made a thread about this earlier this year.

Here is the OP:

oregonvol said:
In search of a factual basis in which to judge Butch Jones' first season, I thought we could look at the first years of coaches who were hired in the SEC in this century, who ultimately ended up being successful at their schools.

I noted their embarrassing losses (which I categorize as either a loss to an opponent with significantly less talent or a loss to an opponent where you just got thoroughly drubbed by a mass of points) and big wins (which I categorize as upsets over opponents with significantly higher rankings and/or talent, or an absolute drubbing of a respectable opponent with similar talent/ranking).


Mark Richt, Georgia
previous team record: 8-4
record in 1st year: 8-4
Bad Losses: None
Big/Upset Wins: Tennessee (#6 at home, W 26-24)

Urban Meyer, Florida
previous team record: 7-5
record in 1st year: 9-3
Bad Losses: Alabama (L 31-3), South Carolina (L 30-22)
Big/Upset Wins: Florida State (decisive win over ranked rival, W 34-7)

Nick Saban, LSU
previous team record: 3-8
record in 1st year: 8-4
Bad Losses: Florida (L 41-9)
Big/Upset Wins: Tennessee (#11, W 38-31)


Nick Saban, Alabama
previous team record: 6-6
record in 1st year: 7-6
Bad Losses: Louisiana Monroe (L 17-12)
Big/Upset Wins: Tennessee (decisive win over ranked rival, W 41-17)

Les Miles, LSU
previous team record: 9-3
record in 1st year: 11-2
Bad Losses: none
Big/Upset Wins: Miami (decisive win over top 10 team, W 40-3)

Gene Chizik, Auburn
previous team record: 5-7
record in 1st year: 8-5
Bad Losses: None
Big/Upset Wins: None

Bobby Petrino, Arkansas
previous team record: 8-5
record in 1st year: 5-7
Bad Losses: Alabama (L 49-14), Texas (L 52-10), Florida (L 38-7)
Big/Upset Wins: LSU (W 31-30)

Steve Spurrier, South Carolina
previous team record: 6-5
record in 1st year: 7-5
Bad Losses: Auburn (L 48-7)
Big/Upset Wins: Tennessee (W 16-15), Florida (W 30-22)

James Franklin, Vanderbilt
previous team record: 2-10
record in 1st year: 6-7
Bad Losses: Alabama (L 34-0)
Big/Upset Wins: Wake Forest (W 41-7), *also close losses to Tennessee, Florida, Arkansas & Georgia, (all within a touchdown) notable simply because they are Vanderbilt, after all

...So what can we learn here? What stands out to me is that the majority had at least one bad, uncompetitive loss in their first season. But also, everyone except Chizik had either a big upset win or a decisive blowout over a talented team (or, in the case of Vanderbilt, at least a comparably or arguably more talented rival). Several coaches took over teams with losing records and all made it to a bowl in their 1st year. Out of 9 instances, only 1 coach (Petrino) failed to show improvement in their first year in either win/loss record or in victories over ranked rivals. Petrino is also the only one of the 9 to lose more than 1 game in blowout fashion.
Click to expand...
 
#44
#44
We don't know if this coach will be great or not, one year is not enough to get an answer, can we just wait until he gets this recruiting class in to see if he can make it or not?


If this staff underachieve again next year, then it will be the time to get the pitchforks out.
 
#45
#45
and to add to the mix, Pat Dye is the only SEC coach in history to have a losing first season followed by an SECC within his first 5 years.
 
#46
#46
sjt18 said:
Sorry but no. "Depth and speed" did not cost UT the Vandy game. UT is deeper, faster, and more talented than Vandy... and it ain't close.

That is also not the reason UT got beaten like an FCS team by Oregon, Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn.
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I don't think you can make the argument that we're deeper or faster than Vanderbilt. It showed Saturday night. The final should have been much worse than 14-10. We have been slow on D for a few years now. I know we can't blame Dooley forever, but his lackluster recruiting did leave us up a creek this year. You can't make final calls after year 1. That isn't fair to CBJ.
 
#47
#47
johndoevol said:
We don't know if this coach will be great or not, one year is not enough to get an answer, can we just wait until he gets this recruiting class in to see if he can make it or not?


If this staff underachieve again next year, then it will be the time to get the pitchforks out.
Click to expand...

Don't know if I would get the pitchforks out unless we have a season like this one or worse...

However I do agree that one year isn't enough to get an answer on whether he will be great or not.
 
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