Other great coaches that started similar to CBJ

[oregonvol]

Nick Saban went 6-5-1 at Michigan State his first year...after inheriting a program that went 0-11 the year before and was under NCAA sanctions. I think most fans would take a 6 win improvement over the previous year.

Can we please stop trying to compare a coach who just lost to Vanderbilt and who has been blown out repeatedly this year to Nick Saban? It just makes you look utterly foolish.

 

[sjt18]

In what way is TN more talented than Vandy? Jordan Matthews is better than ANY receiver that we have on our team! Their secondary is better than ours. Their QB is better than ours. So how is TN more talented?

UT is more talented because they are faster, quicker, stronger, bigger....

Vandy is much better coached.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I'll be the first to admit it: I will follow a coach blindly, especially if that coach has a proven track record like CBJ does, and especially if they are as hot on the recruiting trail as CBJ is.

But, ultimately, why, you ask? Because for the next few years, whether you like it or not, CBJ will be our coach. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so you might as well support him and the team, like a true Vol fan should.

2nd paragraph makes perfect sense, although you must realize that we'd probably be in year 4 of Dooley if the fans hadn't been so vocal in their disapproval.

The first part of your post is kind of open to the argument that people would feel a lot better with CBJ if we'd just had 3 or 4 years of Brian Kelly to set the table.

 

[johndoevol]

In what way is TN more talented than Vandy? Jordan Matthews is better than ANY receiver that we have on our team! Their secondary is better than ours. Their QB is better than ours. So how is TN more talented?

sjt18 used to be a positive poster, but he got burned by dooley and he did a 180, now he has gone to the "realist" camp, it is ok, Butch will either prove him wrong, or crash horribly. I hope it is the former. :hi:

 

[volfanjustin]

I'll be the first to admit it: I will follow a coach blindly, especially if that coach has a proven track record like CBJ does, and especially if they are as hot on the recruiting trail as CBJ is.

But, ultimately, why, you ask? Because for the next few years, whether you like it or not, CBJ will be our coach. There isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so you might as well support him and the team, like a true Vol fan should.

I support the program, I refuse to support each and every single coach just because he is our coach at that time. I do not and will not support this Big East hack. Good news is he will not be here long. When you continue to settle for the first guy who say yes this is what you get.

I did not expect to go 9-3 but I did expect to see improved play as the season progressed. This is a very poorly coached team. The only difference between this team and last years is this team was at least ok at time on D but sucked on offense, last years was the opposite but this year we supposedly had a HC with a good offensive mind.

 

[johndoevol]

I support the program, I refuse to support each and every single coach just because he is our coach at that time. I do not and will not support this Big East hack. Good news is he will not be here long. When you continue to settle for the first guy who say yes this is what you get.

I did not expect to go 9-3 but I did expect to see improved play as the season progressed. This is a very poorly coached team. The only difference between this team and last years is this team was at least ok at time on D but sucked on offense, last years was the opposite but this year we supposedly had a HC with a good offensive mind.

Hopefully this big east hack will prove you wrong next year! :thumbsup:

 

[volfanjustin]

You ain't KIDDDING!!!

Saban did lose 6 games... and not ONE of them by more than a TD. He was NOT blown out 4 times with his team not even showing up.

Not to mention the man had already won a NC, Butch can't compete on any level with Saban. Saban will kick Jones' head in 10 out of 10 times when they play.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Really? They tried the homerun hires and guess what. THEY ALL SAID NO! The state our program is in currently, it isn't a top 5 job in the SEC right now. No one else wanted the burden of rebuilding this program with the pairing of its insane (passion, but insane) fan base with ridiculous expectation. Did we think this first year was going to go much differently when we looked at the schedule? Did we really expect 7 or 8 W's with this team?

Once they upset SC they had to know thay anything short of a bowl appearance would be considered a failure. As to who said no and why, I think it had more to do with the money on the table than anything else.

 

[volfanjustin]

Hopefully this big east hack will prove you wrong next year! :thumbsup:

I would absolutely be tickled freaking pink.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

UT is more talented because they are faster, quicker, stronger, bigger....

Vandy is much better coached.

That is an outright LIE! You must be on drugs. You are sitting here telling me that UT is fast quicker and stronger than Vandy, therefore they should've won. HAAAAAAAAAAA

Watch Concord De La Salle play ball. They are a small school, but they pretty much whip everyone they play. Not because they are faster quicker stronger and bigger than everyone else, but because they have been running the same system for the past 20 some odd years. They have great technique and fundamentals. Better athletes do not always equal better teams. You always discount stability and continuity of programs/coaches in your equations.

 

[callmecrockett]

Year 2 Records

Nick Saban - 10-3 (2001)
Losses to #7 UT #2 UF and Ole Miss
Won SECCG vs #2 UT (as we know)
Won Sugar Bowl vs Illinois

Nick Saban - 12-2 (2008)
Losses in SECCG and Sugar Bowl

Les Miles - 11-2 (2005)
Losses to #3 AU and #5 UF
Won Sugar Bowl vs ND

Pete Carroll - 11-2 (2002)
Losses to #25 KSU and #17 WSU
Won Orange Bowl vs Iowa

Bobby Bowden - 10-2 (1977)
Losses to Miami and #13 SDU
Won Tangerine Bowl vs TTU

Second year looks promising if we are comparing to these coaches. Or it means nothing and we just suck.

 

[skasper06]

I support the program, I refuse to support each and every single coach just because he is our coach at that time. I do not and will not support this Big East hack. Good news is he will not be here long. When you continue to settle for the first guy who say yes this is what you get.

I did not expect to go 9-3 but I did expect to see improved play as the season progressed. This is a very poorly coached team. The only difference between this team and last years is this team was at least ok at time on D but sucked on offense, last years was the opposite but this year we supposedly had a HC with a good offensive mind.

If the VN mods would allow the use of the F word once a year I would use it here just for you.

God I can't wait until Butch shuts you people up.

 

[johndoevol]

Year 2 Records

Nick Saban - 10-3 (2001)
Losses to #7 UT #2 UF and Ole Miss
Won SECCG vs #2 UT (as we know)
Won Sugar Bowl vs Illinois

Nick Saban - 12-2 (2008)
Losses in SECCG and Sugar Bowl

Les Miles - 11-2 (2005)
Losses to #3 AU and #5 UF
Won Sugar Bowl vs ND

Pete Carroll - 11-2 (2002)
Losses to #25 KSU and #17 WSU
Won Orange Bowl vs Iowa

Bobby Bowden - 10-2 (1977)
Losses to Miami and #13 SDU
Won Tangerine Bowl vs TTU

Second year looks promising if we are comparing to these coaches. Or it means nothing and we just suck.

Every story has its own context, nothing is as bad as it seems, or as good either, we need a bigger sample to judge this coaching staff.

 

[sjt18]

That is an outright LIE! You must be on drugs. You are sitting here telling me that UT is fast quicker and stronger than Vandy, therefore they should've won. HAAAAAAAAAAA

Nope. Simple truth.

Watch Concord De La Salle play ball. They are a small school, but they pretty much whip everyone they play. Not because they are faster quicker stronger and bigger than everyone else, but because they have been running the same system for the past 20 some odd years.

They are well coached. Correct. When they meet teams that are both more talented and well coached... they lose.

They have great technique and fundamentals.

All functions of coaching

Better athletes do not always equal better teams.

True. Sometimes better coaches make better teams.

You always discount stability and continuity of programs/coaches in your equations.

Nope. The talent difference between UT and VU is enough that a good coaching effort would have made this game an easy UT win. Franklin flat outcoached Jones. His team is coached up whereas UT is not.

FWIW, Franklin took his first team to a bowl game at Vandy. They lost two games by more than a TD... USCe (12-2 East champ) and Bama (13-1 National Champ). They were 2-10 both of the previous two years. Somehow a "new system" and stability didn't keep him from overachieving with a roster nearly devoid of players who could make the two deep for any other SEC team.

 

[callmecrockett]

Small stat I heard, since 1992 all SECCG or NC winning coaches in the SEC have won at least 9 games by their second year. Great coaching doesn't hide itself for very long. So I want to see vast improvement by next year or I can't easily believe that Butch will be the one to get us to where we want to be.

 

[johndoevol]

Nope. Simple truth.

They are well coached. Correct. When they meet teams that are both more talented and well coached... they lose.

All functions of coaching True. Sometimes better coaches make better teams.



Nope. The talent difference between UT and VU is enough that a good coaching effort would have made this game an easy UT win. Franklin flat outcoached Jones. His team is coached up whereas UT is not.

You do NOT have every piece in this puzzle. :unsure:

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I think that what every sensible person now realizes is that we don't have someone at the controls who can flip the switch. these guys will need several more years to even have a chance of getting the number and quality of players they need to fully implement their system (a system that may not even be able to win an SEC championship against a highly skilled opponent) and this is not a fanbase that will long tolerate failure even if winning was a tall order from the outset. I haven't seen much to get excited about but it's early yet.

 

[sjt18]

You do NOT have every piece in this puzzle. :unsure:

But those blindly expressing faith in a staff that has in the last 5 games been blown out 4 times and lost to Vandy... do, right?

I think we all have the same pieces... some of us just accept that they all fit somewhere. Others discard the ones that do not fit what THEY want to believe the picture should look like.

 

[skasper06]

One huge factor to remember is the fact that CBJ is completely changing the playing style at Tennessee as well.

He inherited a pro-style and is converting this team to a read-option spread. That definitely takes time. And it starts with recruiting. I sure do hope Butch Jones can recruit...oh wait...

As I said before. By the end of his third year, he will be making the nay-sayers eat their words. And if not, I will gladly eat my own.

 

[sjt18]

UT didn't run a pro style O last year any more than this team did. They spread the field and ran out of the shot gun most of the time. The only really big difference is that Bray didn't run the read option or even pretend to.

 

[sjt18]

One huge factor to remember is the fact that CBJ is completely changing the playing style at Tennessee as well.

He inherited a pro-style and is converting this team to a read-option spread. That definitely takes time. And it starts with recruiting. .

If this is a valid excuse then Dooley and Sunseri should have never been fired.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Nope. Simple truth.

They are well coached. Correct. When they meet teams that are both more talented and well coached... they lose.

All functions of coaching True. Sometimes better coaches make better teams.



Nope. The talent difference between UT and VU is enough that a good coaching effort would have made this game an easy UT win. Franklin flat outcoached Jones. His team is coached up whereas UT is not.

FWIW, Franklin took his first team to a bowl game at Vandy. They lost two games by more than a TD... USCe (12-2 East champ) and Bama (13-1 National Champ). They were 2-10 both of the previous two years. Somehow a "new system" and stability didn't keep him from overachieving with a roster nearly devoid of players who could make the two deep for any other SEC team.

Wrong Wrong and Wrong again. You can not undo 3 years of bad coaching in 10-11 months. You act as if you have all of the answers, but you are so wrong. Your act is wearing very thin. There are many well coached and way more talented teams than Concord De La Salle that they beat over a 10 year period. They played coast to coast away games for 10 years. They have beaten most of the Big state champs from FL to TX to OK. Those are big time athletic programs. There are a few of the De La Salle players in the NFL (Jones-Drew, DJ Williams, Derek Landy) but for the most part they win based on longevity of coaching and coaching style. And get this, they run basically the same 10 plays EVERY game and they still win. It is obvious that you have NO idea what you are talking about. I am sorry that Dooley left you high and dry, but you can't be pissed off at the next coach. If your girlfriend cheated on you and left you, doesn't mean that the next girl that comes along will do the same thing.

 

[johndoevol]

But those blindly expressing faith in a staff that has in the last 5 games been blown out 4 times and lost to Vandy... do, right?

I think we all have the same pieces... some of us just accept that they all fit somewhere. Others discard the ones that do not fit what THEY want to believe the picture should look like.

Come on man! it is not blind faith! it is an strategic need!!!!!! don't you understand that we can not afford another coaching change, dont't you understand that we have to help this staff overachieve, why is it so difficult to grasp the idea that we are at the end of our rope, we have no more choices, money has dried up, we better make it work with this staff or we will become an also ran forever!, this is not a joke!, we have to make it work with this coach or it will be the end!!!!! wake the hell up! there is not a rainbow at the end of the way!!!, we have to make it work with this coach or else we are doomed.:ermm:

 

[sjt18]

Wrong Wrong and Wrong again. You can not undo 3 years of bad coaching in 10-11 months.

But Franklin undid YEARS of bad coaching in the same period?... Saban did too unless you don't think losing close games is more indicative of good coaching than getting blown out and beaten by an inferior team. Sumlin did. Malzahn did. Even Yawyaw has.

Rich Rod took over a VERY poorly coached Arizona team that went 4-8 and finished 8-5 in his first year while installing a radically different O system and his 3-3-5 D which NO one else runs.

You act as if you have all of the answers, but you are so wrong.

No... I don't and no... I am not. Most of what I have cited are facts or opinions based on facts. I understand why they are offensive to you. I really do. You don't want to believe that the indications are there that this is NOT a good coaching staff. You want to believe that eveything is fine and that these guys are going to turn it around. That's just not what their performance indicates.

Your act is wearing very thin.

As is your determined denial of the bad warning signs. I haven't said these guys will ultimately fail. But what they have done coaching wise so far is NOT a good indicator of success.

There are many well coached and way more talented teams than Concord De La Salle that they beat over a 10 year period. They played coast to coast away games for 10 years. They have beaten most of the Big state champs from FL to TX to OK. Those are big time athletic programs.

You aren't helping your case. You are making the case that great coaching takes mediocre talent and wins games against better talent. I agree. That is the opposite of what this staff did this year.

And get this, they run basically the same 10 plays EVERY game and they still win.

So what you are saying is that it doesn't take a complicated system that takes years to install, right? It just takes an effective system and coaching, right?

It is obvious that you have NO idea what you are talking about.

Yet I answer every objection you have with facts and fact based opinions while you have to turn to insults, hyperbole, and evasion....

I am sorry that Dooley left you high and dry, but you can't be pissed off at the next coach.

This has nothing to do with Dooley. If you think Dooley caused the Vandy loss then all I can say is that I'm sorry you are that detached from reality.

If your girlfriend cheated on you and left you, doesn't mean that the next girl that comes along will do the same thing.

No. But if the next girl came in and showed the same signs or worse within the first few weeks together... I wouldn't close my eyes to it.

Dooley failed. He failed badly. The first two years were pretty much what many expected but the last was a joke... but Dooley was MORE successful in his first year with a VERY similar situation. At least his teams competed for a half before getting blown out... he didn't lose to Vandy.

You guys want to compare Jones first year to Saban's when there is no comparison... then avoid comparing to Dooley's first year when it is a very relevant comparison.

 

[tm3]

Mike Dubose did it as well. His 1st year at Bama (1997) they had a losing record and won the SEC in 1999.

oops my bad

thanks BV