OU DT Charles Walker leaving during season to prepare for NFL Draft

#51
#51
butchna said:
Never argued otherwise. This isn't about a debt to fans. It's the hole in the dam. When the individual sections decide to worry about only themselves, the whole thing collapses...end analogy. When your starting QB leaves midseason to prepare for the draft...the product you're cheering for is already rotten. That's why this particular kid slides a round or four in April.
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When you ask players to risk their health so you can make millions off of them without paying them, you run the risk of the dam collapsing. The product is already rotten; it's not the responsibility of the players to pretend otherwise. If Tennessee players get tired of playing for free, I won't blame them.
 
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#52
#52
NashVol11 said:
When you ask players to risk their health so you can make millions off of them without paying them, you run the risk of the dam collapsing. The product is already rotten; it's not the responsibility of the players to pretend otherwise. If Tennessee players get tired of playing for free, I won't blame them.
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I'm not sure that was what was being asked of him. There's a concussion protocol and zero chance of him seeing the field until that is resolved. He was an integral part of the team and that monster of a human being that coaches them expected him to stick it out until the end of the season. If he had been there encouraging from the sidelines it would look better when he expects to get paid money to be part of a team at the next level. Players that get tired of "playing for free" oughtta shoot for academic scholarships...get that education thang going. Vast majority are never going to get paid at the professional level. There was a way to do this that protected his health but still kept his bridges unsinged. If his relationship with Stoops had been strained, I doubt the coach would've put up any fuss. Since it was an abrupt departure that triggered a justifiable negative reaction. Gonna cost the kid.
 
#53
#53
butchna said:
I'm not sure that was what was being asked of him. There's a concussion protocol and zero chance of him seeing the field until that is resolved. He was an integral part of the team and that monster of a human being that coaches them expected him to stick it out until the end of the season. If he had been there encouraging from the sidelines it would look better when he expects to get paid money to be part of a team at the next level. Players that get tired of "playing for free" oughtta shoot for academic scholarships...get that education thang going. Vast majority are never going to get paid at the professional level. There was a way to do this that protected his health but still kept his bridges unsinged. If his relationship with Stoops had been strained, I doubt the coach would've put up any fuss. Since it was an abrupt departure that triggered a justifiable negative reaction. Gonna cost the kid.
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A few thoughts, not necessarily related to each other:

The negative reaction wasn't from the HC; it was from the dumbest Stoops brother.

The concussion protocol makes sure you're symptom-free before you play again, but it doesn't really do anything to address the fact that players who suffer concussions are more susceptible to future ones. Jordan Reed and Wes Welker passed that protocol a number of times, and suffered more concussions that put their careers in jeopardy. Considering that Walker is really good, I have no doubt that OU would prioritize 2016 success over the kid's future and put him right back out there when he's cleared. If he plays and suffers another concussion, that's a bigger red flag than this is.

Whether this is going to lower his draft stock (probably a little, but some alternatives could be much worse) and whether I'd be upset if a Tennessee player did the same thing (not at all) are two separate questions. The NCAA's current incentive structure makes this a rational decision for just about anyone who's a good NFL prospect, especially someone who is injured. The main argument against is this abstract idea of loyalty to a team that doesn't care about you. That's an idea that I think fans care about way more than NFL teams do, especially if he can come up with a half-decent answer to the question over the next few months.
 
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#54
#54
NashVol11 said:
A few thoughts, not necessarily related to each other:

The negative reaction wasn't from the HC; it was from the dumbest Stoops brother.

The concussion protocol makes sure you're symptom-free before you play again, but it doesn't really do anything to address the fact that players who suffer concussions are more susceptible to future ones. Jordan Reed and Wes Welker passed that protocol a number of times, and suffered more concussions that put their careers in jeopardy. Considering that Walker is really good, I have no doubt that OU would prioritize 2016 success over the kid's future and put him right back out there when he's cleared. If he plays and suffers another concussion, that's a bigger red flag than this is.

Whether this is going to lower his draft stock (probably a little, but some alternatives could be much worse) and whether I'd be upset if a Tennessee player did the same thing (not at all) are two separate questions. The NCAA's current incentive structure makes this a rational decision for just about anyone who's a good NFL prospect, especially someone who is injured. The main argument against is this abstract idea of loyalty to a team that doesn't care about you. That's an idea that I think fans care about way more than NFL teams do, especially if he can come up with a half-decent answer to the question over the next few months.
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NFL teams pore over character to the anal retentive level. They dropped Dak Prescott's draft value based on off field issues. You're deluding yourself if you think this perceived flaw doesn't hurt him bad. They ask former coaches about his coachability and ability to adapt and compare that to other draft prospects...Walker will come up short in those tiebreakers. He could've "prepared" just as well (or better) at ole State U...this will be a cautionary tale for future players.
 
#55
#55
Good lord guys this is football. It's honestly the one sport that you MUST have your team mates back. Does he have the right to leave and prep for the combine? You bet he does. But as a guy who played through college in this sport, I will tell you that if you don't think this type of decision will impact how he is viewed by his future coaches and team mates you are a bit off the mark. Don't know if it will help or hinder his draft status because this idea of key players quitting mid season is something new. I still believe continued reps would be as important as prepping for combine drills. I just hope this doesn't become an ongoing trend in college football as it is incredibly disruptive to team continuity.
 
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#56
#56
gc49ervol said:
Good lord guys this is football. It's honestly the one sport that you MUST have your team mates back. Does he have the right to leave and prep for the combine? You bet he does. But as a guy who played through college in this sport, I will tell you that if you don't think this type of decision will impact how he is viewed by his future coaches and team mates you are a bit off the mark. Don't know if it will help or hinder his draft status because this idea of key players quitting mid season is something new. I still believe continued reps would be as important as prepping for combine drills. I just hope this doesn't become an ongoing trend in college football as it is incredibly disruptive to team continuity.
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Thanks for your insight. :hi:
 
#57
#57
gc49ervol said:
Good lord guys this is football. It's honestly the one sport that you MUST have your team mates back. Does he have the right to leave and prep for the combine? You bet he does. But as a guy who played through college in this sport, I will tell you that if you don't think this type of decision will impact how he is viewed by his future coaches and team mates you are a bit off the mark. Don't know if it will help or hinder his draft status because this idea of key players quitting mid season is something new. I still believe continued reps would be as important as prepping for combine drills. I just hope this doesn't become an ongoing trend in college football as it is incredibly disruptive to team continuity.
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And the impact of a coaching staff calling out players in this situation to future or current players?

I mean players have quit, stopped playing, smoke weed, don't care, go to jail, stop going to class, make themselves eligible for the draft or just plain tell the coaches to F off -- nothing really new here. What is kind of new is coaching staff calling out players in the public to what normally is an internal issue on something that is not only a health issue but also a business issue, and for which the coaching staff has no credibility.

Just my take.
 
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#58
#58
LSU-SIU said:
And the impact of a coaching staff calling out players in this situation to future or current players?

I mean players have quit, stopped playing, smoke weed, don't care, go to jail, stop going to class, make themselves eligible for the draft or just plain tell the coaches to F off -- nothing really new here. What is kind of new is coaching staff calling out players in the public to what normally is an internal issue on something that is not only a health issue but also a business issue, and for which the coaching staff has no credibility.

Just my take.
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Up and leaving the team to prepare for the draft isn't old hat. Maybe it will be and that sucks...thus the discussion.
 
#59
#59
butchna said:
Up and leaving the team to prepare for the draft isn't old hat. Maybe it will be and that sucks...thus the discussion.
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Yeah I agree but out of most of those (I listed) at least what this kid did make some sense, whether we agree or not. Is the coaching staff mad because he plans on leaving after his junior year or with a few games to go? I'm not really seeing the difference really and it seems self-serving.

Seems very odd for me for a coach to be calling a player out in social media. If the coach doesn't understand what the kid believes or thinks - maybe just maybe its the coach that is out of touch.

Why call out this kid and now? I mean kids in college do much worse than this.
 
#60
#60
LSU-SIU said:
Yeah I agree but out of most of those (I listed) at least what this kid did make some sense, whether we agree or not. Is the coaching staff mad because he plans on leaving after his junior year or with a few games to go? I'm not really seeing the difference really and it seems self-serving.

Seems very odd for me for a coach to be calling a player out in social media. If the coach doesn't understand what the kid believes or thinks - maybe just maybe its the coach that is out of touch.

Why call out this kid and now? I mean kids in college do much worse than this.
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Maybe there's more to it and we're discussing it on a message board. :)
 
#64
#64
LSU-SIU said:
And the impact of a coaching staff calling out players in this situation to future or current players?

I mean players have quit, stopped playing, smoke weed, don't care, go to jail, stop going to class, make themselves eligible for the draft or just plain tell the coaches to F off -- nothing really new here. What is kind of new is coaching staff calling out players in the public to what normally is an internal issue on something that is not only a health issue but also a business issue, and for which the coaching staff has no credibility.

Just my take.
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To your point a player can do all of the things you are speaking of and, although frowned upon, will be overlooked to a degree as long as you are there for your team. Hard to explain but it's a brotherhood and it is a real negative to quit mid season. It's also understood if you leave after the season if you have a legitimate reason. But it's really bad to just quit on your team during the season. I don't understand it and I would be surprised if anybody who has played would. Most coaches would fall into the ex player category which explains Stoops comments.
 
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#65
#65
I'll just leave this here. (From Matt Miller)
 

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#66
#66
I'll throw this out there:

Would you rather a player officially quit like he did (letting another guy play his spot with no distractions) or have a player not officially quit but clearly mail it in (not dropping any names)?
 
#67
#67
PKT_VOL said:
I'll throw this out there:

Would you rather a player officially quit like he did (letting another guy play his spot with no distractions) or have a player not officially quit but clearly mail it in (not dropping any names)?
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You make him sound almost noble. :) There's no difference between the two.
 
#70
#70
Wait until more players with NFL prospects stop playing in the exhibition (bowl) games. I expect that to become a growing trend.
 
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#71
#71
95 Vol Alum said:
Wait until more players with NFL prospects stop playing in the exhibition (bowl) games. I expect that to become a growing trend.
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I agree, and it makes sense, because bowl games outside of the playoff are completely worthless.
 
#72
#72
NashVol11 said:
I agree, and it makes sense, because bowl games outside of the playoff are completely worthless.
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Except to their draft stock. If I'm a GM, I'm seeing that same player quit in a vital game and mark him/them off the list.
 
#75
#75
PKT_VOL said:
I'll throw this out there:

Would you rather a player officially quit like he did (letting another guy play his spot with no distractions) or have a player not officially quit but clearly mail it in (not dropping any names)?
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Disclaimer: Not saying Walker is a bad person or a bad kid.
Charles Walker barely played all season, and when he did wasn't showing the same effort, he had clearly mailed it in. He then sat out with a self reported concussion. The doctors couldn't find anything wrong with him, but he kept reporting it so he sat from ~around the end of September till he quit (also he reported a concussion before the playoff game last year and sat the game. Players thought he just didn't want to play, but the doctors were hesitant.) Bob Stoops had swept this all under the rug. We (OU ppl) think he quit after we had 2 players retire from concussions and he got scared, b/c he has a daughter to support.
(All of this info is from TFB, and local media)
 
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