Peace-loving and religiously tolerant Muslims in Egypt

#51
#51
droski said:
ridiculous.

the fact remains that a large % of muslims support their terrorism against the west. arguing that only a small percentage actually commit terrorism is a bit misleading. that isn't to say most muslims are supporters, but enough are that you have to question the religious leadership.
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Actually, I agree with you that Islamic leadership has not been nearly vocal enough in condemning acts of terror or in encouraging tolerance. I think they are afraid of doing so.
 
#52
#52
droski said:
i find people are generally friendly towards tourists. have you actually talked to the locals? i think you'd find they are extremely anti american on average (or at least i have). the average klansman isn't going out and telling black people to go screw themselves. generally they are friendly.
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Are we talking about France? Italy?
 
#53
#53
bamacheats said:
Havn't been to every Muslim country but been to enough to know its exaggerated.

India is not Muslim btw.
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True, which is why I almost didn't say it. Christians are still persecuted there quite a bit by all various types of people.

I still wonder from your travels what you would see versus what it is like in a day to day life of a person who is a native Christian that converted from Islam or a native Christian in India.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
Are we talking about France? Italy?
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the french or italians generally dont' dance in the streets when we get killed. we are talking about degree here. in my recent trip to italy i found the locals to be pretty ambivalent about the US. most question why we haven't followed them into socialism, but that is pretty much it.
 
#55
#55
hell i've met plenty indians and iranian immigrants in this country who think america is the great devil. i can't imagine what the locals think.
 
#56
#56
lawgator1 said:
Actually, I agree with you that Islamic leadership has not been nearly vocal enough in condemning acts of terror or in encouraging tolerance. I think they are afraid of doing so.
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they're not going to. within the mosques they support the terrorists. the silence is deafening.

You'll never hear CAIR condemning terrorists the way they condemn any person that is vocal against islam.
 
#57
#57
tigervol9802 said:
True, which is why I almost didn't say it. Christians are still persecuted there quite a bit by all various types of people.

I still wonder from your travels what you would see versus what it is like in a day to day life of a person who is a native Christian that converted from Islam or a native Christian in India.
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Who do Indians persecute? They're primarily Hindu and they believe every religion is the right one. Besides, they're too busted broke to care about anything other than their next meal.
Most of my travels were not for pleasure. The wife and I volunteered with Drs. w/o borders. We were out of college, no jobs, no kids, why not. All we dealt with were locals. Most people in that part of the earth are just concerned with staying alive. Politics and religion is not of great concern.
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#58
#58
If Christians don't want to be persecuted, then they shouldn't be concerned with spreading the gospel and converting Muslims/Hindus/etc to Christianity. It's the same thing with Islam. Religion is a giant turf war.
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#59
#59
bamacheats said:
Who do Indians persecute? They're primarily Hindu and they believe every religion is the right one. Besides, they're too busted broke to care about anything other than their next meal.
Most of my travels were not for pleasure. The wife and I volunteered with Drs. w/o borders. We were out of college, no jobs, no kids, why not. All we dealt with were locals. Most people in that part of the earth are just concerned with staying alive. Politics and religion is not of great concern.
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I've read and spoken with natives of several accounts in India where the Christians there are persecuted a lot, primarily by the Buddhists and Muslims.
 
#60
#60
tigervol9802 said:
I've read and spoken with natives of several accounts in India where the Christians there are persecuted a lot, primarily by the Buddhists and Muslims.
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my friend's whole village moved from bangladesh (not india exactly i know) because they were christian and were being persecuted.
 
#61
#61
droski said:
my friend's whole village moved from bangladesh (not india exactly i know) because they were christian and were being persecuted.
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India is not nearly as bad as China, Pakistan, and others, but it does go on there as well.

My point goes back to this other than the rare nutjob that tried to blow up a clinic (and when is the last one of those we heard) or other fringe idiot like the guy in Knoxville in 07 or 08, you really don't hear of a lot of stuff in Americans where Christians are persecuting Muslims and to say it comparable to what happen in the middle east is just wrong.
 
#62
#62
tigervol9802 said:
I've read and spoken with natives of several accounts in India where the Christians there are persecuted a lot, primarily by the Buddhists and Muslims.
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All due respect, you've probably just read and heard some extreme exaggerations or outright lies. No way a Buddhist is going to persecute a Christian, not good for karma and that trip to nirvana. Besides, too much drug use to really even know what's going on.
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#63
#63
bamacheats said:
All due respect, you've probably just read and heard some extreme exaggerations or outright lies. No way a Buddhist is going to persecute a Christian, not good for karma and that trip to nirvana. Besides, too much drug use to really even know what's going on.
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something tells me you've never actually talked to very many Buddhists
 
#64
#64
bamacheats said:
All due respect, you've probably just read and heard some extreme exaggerations or outright lies. No way a Buddhist is going to persecute a Christian, not good for karma and that trip to nirvana. Besides, too much drug use to really even know what's going on.
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With all due respect, the people I have spoken with, hear speak, etc. are a lot closer to the situation and I trust their word a bit more than yours.
 
#65
#65
bamacheats said:
All due respect, you've probably just read and heard some extreme exaggerations or outright lies. No way a Buddhist is going to persecute a Christian, not good for karma and that trip to nirvana. Besides, too much drug use to really even know what's going on.
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Fifth precept of the Pancasila prohibits the use of drugs or alcohol.
 
#66
#66
tigervol9802 said:
India is not nearly as bad as China, Pakistan, and others, but it does go on there as well.

My point goes back to this other than the rare nutjob that tried to blow up a clinic (and when is the last one of those we heard) or other fringe idiot like the guy in Knoxville in 07 or 08, you really don't hear of a lot of stuff in Americans where Christians are persecuting Muslims and to say it comparable to what happen in the middle east is just wrong.
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National Abortion Federation: Extreme Clinic Violence

It's not as rare as you want to think.
 
#68
#68
BeecherVol said:
Not up on their doctrine, is that like a commandment in the Bible?
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I suppose. The Pancasila is five precepts. There are also versions of eight, ten, and sixteen.

1. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking life
2. I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given.
3. I undertake the training rule to abstain from sexual misconduct.
4. I undertake the training rule to abstain from false speech.
5. I undertake the training rule to abstain from fermented drink that causes heedlessness.
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While it says fermented drink (alcohol), it also includes drugs (heedlessness).
 
#70
#70
BeecherVol said:
What the violence?

Or those behind it?
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Both. You have Pastors, Priests, etc vocally condemning abortion and then you have the extremists using violence to attack abortion clinics and doctors. It may not be exactly the same as suicide bombing, but the US isn't exactly a third world, or very underdeveloped, country like many Islamic countries. So naturally the acts won't be as often or as violent. It's still the same idea: use violence to get your point across.
 
#71
#71
VOLatile said:
Both. You have Pastors, Priests, etc vocally condemning abortion and then you have the extremists using violence to attack abortion clinics and doctors. It may not be exactly the same as suicide bombing, but the US isn't exactly a third world, or very underdeveloped, country like many Islamic countries. So naturally the acts won't be as often or as violent. It's still the same idea: use violence to get your point across.
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Broad brush.

I have heard it preached on, but never been directed that violence was the approach to take toward it.
 
#72
#72
BeecherVol said:
Broad brush.

I have heard it preached on, but never been directed that violence was the approach to take toward it.
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Broad, yes, I won't deny that. But there are extremists in Christianity as there are in Islam. Just not nearly as many or as violent. I don't think the Imams even need to preach the violence anymore for it to happen.
 
#74
#74
VOLatile said:
Broad, yes, I won't deny that. But there are extremists in Christianity as there are in Islam. Just not nearly as many or as violent. I don't think the Imams even need to preach the violence anymore for it to happen.
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What is a "extremist" christian?

I think its easy to just stick "extremist" to christian because it is so prevalent to see it used with muslim, both are similar in ways, and polar opposites in others.

The later would be the actions taken toward non believers. The muslim doctrine contains instructions on how non believers should be handled. Do all muslims follow this teaching? No, but it is found and rewarded in their text.

Christians on the other hand are not justified or rewarded by violence and terrorism toward non believers, as a matter of fact it is prohibited. Will christian beliefs or ideas bother or aggravate non believers? Sure!, but Im not taught to violently respond to you or anyone else that does not believe.
 
#75
#75
BeecherVol said:
What is a "extremist" christian?

I think its easy to just stick "extremist" to christian because it is so prevalent to see it used with muslim, both are similar in ways, and polar opposites in others.
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Simply the reason why I use the word. Extremists in Christianity would be category filled with people that do things above and beyond in the name of god.

Violent acts in the name of god > Fear mongers* > Science deniers

*People who proclaim the end of days is coming (!!!!) "join my church and let's all mass suicide", for example.
 
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