Pearl discussion (split)

#226
#226
Delmar said:
It’s been my experience that when 95% of posters disagree with you then you are generally wrong. But some folks just don’t know which hill to die on. They just keep going.
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That and moving the goalposts and creating strawmen to argue against. Oh and then accuses everyone else of creating strawmen.
 
#227
#227
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Dude thinks he’s playing 3-D chess but is failing at checkers.

You’re still wrong about Barnes turning down TN twice and owing Pearl a big thank you for enabling his success.
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More like shooting marbles..... the little you seem to have upstairs anyways.
You certainly don't want to play me in chess. If you do, I'll give you my chess.com account screename and we'll play some Blitz.
If you play chess like you debate tho, it's not going to go well for you.

You know, it's hilarious that I cite a story from a senior journalist at ESPN, ( Chis Low - the same honest and decent man that kept Chris Lofton's cancer secret in the recent SEC 'Storied') and because it directly contradicts the conjecture you posted about Doug Dickey you actually have the audacity to accuse him of "clickbait and exaggerating/distorting the truth".
You then have the nerve to pretend I am "naive" because I don't accept your very credible source of 'trust me, bro'.😅

lol You are a clown, man. A literal Bozo the clown.
 
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#228
#228
VolsSportsFan said:
That and moving the goalposts and creating strawmen to argue against. Oh and then accuses everyone else of creating strawmen.
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Says the guy that dishonestly chopped off a quote of mine to try to frame an argument I didn't make all because it directly contradicted his weak and false narrative.

Birds of a feather, man.... you truly flock together.
I'm telling you, you can't make this up. smh
 
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#229
#229
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
More like shooting marbles..... the little you seem to have upstairs anyways.
You certainly don't want to play me in chess. If you do, I'll give you my chess.com account screename and we'll play some Blitz.
If you play chess like you debate tho, it's not going to go well for you.

You know, it's hilarious that I cite a story from a senior journalist at ESPN, ( Chis Low - the same honest and decent man that kept Chris Lofton's cancer secret in the recent SEC 'Storied') and because it directly contradicts the conjecture you posted about Doug Dickey you actually have the audacity to accuse him of "clickbait and exaggerating/distorting the truth".
You then have the nerve to pretend I am "naive" because I don't accept your very credible source of 'trust me, bro'.😅

lol You are a clown, man. A literal Bozo the clown.
Click to expand...

You literally don’t know what literal means.
 
#231
#231
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
For one, that's not even true.
For two, even it it was it wouldn't make your conclusion true.

Do you know what an Argumentum ad populum is? It is a fallacious argument similar to a bandwagon fallacy that assumes an idea's popularity makes it true or right.

It's a fallacy because popularity alone doesn't prove a claim's truth. Someone arguing may try to win acceptance for a conclusion by appealing to a group's emotions or prejudices.
In this case a lot of people on this board tentd to not like Bruce Pearl or more to the point any comments that might even hint at a comparison or link betwen the two.
It could very well be this dislike is what is driving no likes, positive likes, and even counter arguments. At the very least it's possible it could be skewing objective opinion.
It could also be some people just don't like me so they are willing to automatically dismiss any argument I might put forth. Could be a number of things in regards.

So let's stay away from this type of fallacious reasoning, ok Denmar?
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OK so maybe 95% is an exaggeration but a big majority here are disagreeing with you. Surely you aren’t too obtuse to admit that. I can tell you from 47 years in the corporate world that when the majority of my bosses and my subordinates disagreed with me, I was smart enough to listen and to change plans and opinions when needed. If you don’t want to, so be it. But understand that folks will stop paying attention to you if they perceive you are too stubborn to listen. Even when you have valid thoughts.
 
#233
#233
Delmar said:
OK so maybe 95% is an exaggeration but a big majority here are disagreeing with you. Surely you aren’t too obtuse to admit that. I can tell you from 47 years in the corporate world that when the majority of my bosses and my subordinates disagreed with me, I was smart enough to listen and to change plans and opinions when needed. If you don’t want to, so be it. But understand that folks will stop paying attention to you if they perceive you are too stubborn to listen. Even when you have valid thoughts.
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We aren't in a corporate setting here, man.
I've done seen to many people behaving anything but for me to take many too serious.
I have very nice and cordial conversations with many here. They know who they are. They show respect and they get it in return.

You see, the thing is most of the time the things I say that some posters have a problems with are a lot of the time Barnes related I've found out.
It's a little weird, too. I mean even if what I am saying isn't even intended to be remotely critical, they tend to get their feathers ruffled anyways.
Very protective. It happens with some of our players, too. If it's not that, it's a popular opinion that many feel I/ others should just fall in line with because the group says/thinks so.
I don't do too well with group think. What I mean is I'm not necessarily persuaded by it.

It's all good, tho. Most of these back and forth are completely harmless, and in the grand scene of things shouldn't be taken too seriously.
 
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#235
#235
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
It says they tried to hire Barnes twice. He at least was interviewing for the job. That's plenty good enough for my argument because of what said when he spoke to the two ESPN writers.
They have absolutely no reason to tell him " You can't take that job" unless Barnes had expressed to them the opportunity was there.
Then Barnes says he conveys he wasn't interested not because of Dickey, but because the league " was set on being a football league".

He also conveyed he had this sentiment the second time Tennessee reached out to him about a head coaching job, and like I said still felt this way even when he finally took the chance and came to Tennessee shortly after Pearl bringing new found success to the Tennessee.

Easy inference to make in regards. A child could do it. Unless you are someone who is in denial (which you are) I don't see how one concludes anything else.
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A child could indeed do it and likely would. But then children think like children.
It's very possible that Barnes met with or even interviewed with UTAD and that he got advice to steer clear, but that does not at all mean that he got a job offer. Have you never interviewed somewhere and not been extended an offer?
 
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#236
#236
AthensVol2007 said:
Are you saying Barnes did or didn’t turn us down 2x? I missed the beginning of all this.
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He’s claiming that Barnes was offered the UT head coaching job in 1989 by Dickey after Devoe was fired. I’m calling bull****. Pat Kennedy was the top target and he turned TN down to remain at Florida State. Then Wade Houston or Leonard Hamilton were the fall back options. The argumentative clown claims that Barnes turned down Dickey in 1989 because ESPN has an article by Chris Low that says Barnes claims to have “met” with UT about the opening. Somehow in his simple mind that means Barnes turned TN down.

He also claims that Barnes says he wasn’t going to take the TN job when it was available several years later because UT (and the SEC) didn’t take basketball seriously and emphasized football instead. Despite Barnes being the basketball coach at Clemson and Texas where they emphasized football. Despite TN building the largest on campus basketball facility in the country. Despite all of the Hall of Fame players and coaches that were attending SEC schools.

His original claim is that Barnes OWES Bruce Pearl a debt of gratitude for putting UT’s program in such a terrific place which is why Barnes has been successful.

Then he’s been filling up page after page with his nonsensical trolling and post after post of deflecting and moving goal posts.
 
#237
#237
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He’s claiming that Barnes was offered the UT head coaching job in 1989 by Dickey after Devoe was fired. I’m calling bull****. Pat Kennedy was the top target and he turned TN down to remain at Florida State. Then Wade Houston or Leonard Hamilton were the fall back options. The argumentative clown claims that Barnes turned down Dickey in 1989 because ESPN has an article by Chris Low that says Barnes claims to have “met” with UT about the opening. Somehow in his simple mind that means Barnes turned TN down.

He also claims that Barnes says he wasn’t going to take the TN job when it was available several years later because UT (and the SEC) didn’t take basketball seriously and emphasized football instead. Despite Barnes being the basketball coach at Clemson and Texas where they emphasized football. Despite TN building the largest on campus basketball facility in the country. Despite all of the Hall of Fame players and coaches that were attending SEC schools.

His original claim is that Barnes OWES Bruce Pearl a debt of gratitude for putting UT’s program in such a terrific place which is why Barnes has been successful.

Then he’s been filling up page after page with his nonsensical trolling and post after post of deflecting and moving goal posts.
Click to expand...

"He's claiming" .... your so dishonest, man.

I got that straight from ESPN Chris Low and direct quote from Rick Barnes. (An article that anyone is free to read and double check my quotations).
But you're "calling bull****" on both of them and accusing one of "clickbait/exaggeration" and the other of "embelishinng"
lol, You’re so pathetic, man.

Tell the truth.... you originally typed about a potential Barnes hire,

" It would have been because Doug Dickey was a prick and would have been a s***ty boss"

and then huffed and puffed about about no one having a source and then LO AND BEHOLD I gave you one from an interview with Rick Barnes that said,

"The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball"
(a direct contradiction to you).

and then I owned your little conjecture to the point you had to deny this quote and cowardly call a good man (and ESPN senior journalist) Chis Low a liar, and actually even Rick Barnes because he said when talking about said Tennessee hire in question that it "didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey"......directly contradicting you!
This is there in the article for anyone to read.
I encourage them to do so, too.

Just be real, dude.
You were trying to be big d*ck Tennessee know it-all basketball fan, got called out, and now you just can't/won't admit you were wrong on your original speculation/conjecture.

You're embarrassing yourself, and I will keep highlighting this to anyone that comes along for as long as you want to keep this denial, dishonesty, and delusion going.
And trust me, I can and will.
 
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#238
#238
EasternVol said:
A child could indeed do it and likely would. But then children think like children.
It's very possible that Barnes met with or even interviewed with UTAD and that he got advice to steer clear, but that does not at all mean that he got a job offer. Have you never interviewed somewhere and not been extended an offer?
Click to expand...
After Chris Low interviewed Barnes he said,

"The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball" .

An accomplished senior ESPN journalist said Tennessee twice tried to hire Barnes.
You can also speculate all you want, but as for me, I am going to take him at his word because Barnes also specifically talks about this and the fact his good friends told him, ( and I quote from Rick Barnes)
'You can't take that job."

I don't need either one of you peeing down my back and trying to convince me it is raining. I don't need your reinterpretation of a straight forward article/quote.

If you don't accept what they said. Don't accept it. It's on you to dream up whatever you want, but don't try to pretend I don't have just as much ( valid) right to take what they said at face value.
End of/
 
#239
#239
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
After Chris Low interviewed Barnes he said,

"The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball" .

An accomplished senior ESPN journalist said Tennessee twice tried to hire Barnes.
You can also speculate all you want, but as for me, I am going to take him at his word because Barnes also specifically talks about this and the fact his good friends told him, ( and I quote from Rick Barnes)
'You can't take that job."

I don't need either one of you peeing down my back and trying to convince me it is raining. I don't need your reinterpretation of a straight forward article/quote.

If you don't accept what they said. Don't accept it. It's on you to dream up whatever you want, but don't try to pretend I don't have just as much ( valid) right to take what they said at face value.
End of/
Click to expand...

What you can’t seem to be capable of processing is that “met with” is not the same as turning down a job.
 
#240
#240
Thunder Good-Oil said:
What you can’t seem to be capable of processing is that “met with” is not the same as turning down a job.
Click to expand...
And what you can't seem to get through your thick skull is the article doesn't just say that. It's not just two words "met with".
Like I said, I can and will keep highlighting your dishonesty and denial:


"For Barnes, in his 10th season at Tennessee, things have come full circle. The Vols are the only team in the SEC to have won 25 or more games in each of the past four seasons. The school twice tried to hire Barnes(👀<<<---this right here actually ends our debate on this because you have no source to refute this and if they tried to hire him and didn't get him than he turned down the job, but I'll continue....) when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball". ( 👀<<<--- Barnes reason for turning down the job)
"When Tennessee fired Don DeVoe following the 1989 season, Barnes met with then-Tennessee athletic director Doug Dickey about the job"(👀<<<<---- You dishonestly left that part out, but when you meet with someone about a job that is called an interview and at the very least shows they were considering him). "Barnes remembers telling journalist and close friend John Feinstein and Gavitt, who remained a mentor to Barnes until his death in 2011, about the Tennessee interview". ( 👀<<<<---- he was discussing his job interview with a close friend!)
"They both said, 'You can't take that JOB (👀 <<---- Trying to talk Rick out of the job he was being offered). They don't care about basketball. You're already in a basketball league','" Barnes said. "That was the perception, and it didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey" (👀 <<<<---- Him not taking the job didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey --> this directly contradicts what you originally claimed about if Barnes would have passed on the job it was because of Dickey being a sh**ty boss and not anythingto do with SEC not putting enough emphasis on Basketball. Are you at least HONEST enough to admit that much??? I highly doubt it, I guess we'll see).
That's just where the league was. They were set on being the best football league in the country. " (👀 <<<---Barnes reasoning for not taking the job)

Now, after this clear evidence Barnes was actually being sought after by Tennessee and simply wasn't sold on them/turned down any offers, here is where you (with no source but yourself/conjecture) claim Rick Barnes and Chris Low are full of sh*t and Rick Barnes never was actually really seriously being offered a job so he had no reason to even be pretending he was in the interview.
You do not know this, dude!
That is pure unfounded speculation that you have absolutely no source to back up. None!

If you can't get it now brother, there is no help for you. I know it is hard for you, but try to set your cognitive dissonance aside and absorb the truth of the matter.
 
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#241
#241
Here's the excerpt from the article for anyone not a child/that doesn't need crayon writing to help them with comprehension


For Barnes, in his 10th season at Tennessee, things have come full circle. The Vols are the only team in the SEC to have won 25 or more games in each of the past four seasons. The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball.
When Tennessee fired Don DeVoe following the 1989 season, Barnes met with then-Tennessee athletic director Doug Dickey about the job. Barnes remembers telling journalist and close friend John Feinstein and Gavitt, who remained a mentor to Barnes until his death in 2011, about the Tennessee interview.
"They both said, 'You can't take that job. They don't care about basketball. You're already in a basketball league,'" Barnes said. "That was the perception, and it didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey. That's just where the league was. They were set on being the best football league in the country.
"Now there is an emphasis in this league to be the best in every sport, a tremendous amount of pride, and what's happened in basketball is unlike anything I ever thought I'd see in the SEC, not from where I grew up in the Carolinas."
Click to expand...
 
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#242
#242
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
That's what he is claiming. Or should I say that is his conjecture. His source is only himself, so you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

I read the quote from Barnes where he said he was approached by Tenn twice before about the job. He said he declined interest because of the SEC’s reputation for only being a football league at the time.

It was in the recent article that discussed the rise of SEC basketball.

But, thankfully, Bruce Pearl showed up at Tenn and single handedly elevated SEC basketball to where it is today. Florida? Forget Billy Donovan. They are good because of Bruce.
 
#243
#243
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
Here's the excerpt from the article for anyone not a child/that doesn't need crayon writing to help them with comprehension
Click to expand...

You are buying that “met with” is the equivalent of “twice tried to hire”. Pat Kennedy was the #1 target in 1989 and Houston/Hamilton was the fall back plan. The local news had video of Hamilton walking through TYS on his way to his interview.

Tennessee wouldn’t have fired Devoe to try to hire a 2nd year head coach that went 20-10 at a mid level CAA team and then 18-11/7-9 at Providence that was one-and-done in the NCAAT. Devoe had just gone 19-11/11-7 and tied for 4th place in the SEC and had the same NCAAT result.
 
#247
#247
Thunder Good-Oil said:
You are buying that “met with” is the equivalent of “twice tried to hire”. Pat Kennedy was the #1 target in 1989 and Houston/Hamilton was the fall back plan. The local news had video of Hamilton walking through TYS on his way to his interview.

Tennessee wouldn’t have fired Devoe to try to hire a 2nd year head coach that went 20-10 at a mid level CAA team and then 18-11/7-9 at Providence that was one-and-done in the NCAAT. Devoe had just gone 19-11/11-7 and tied for 4th place in the SEC and had the same NCAAT result.
Click to expand...
Wow....you are slow.
I'm not "buying" anything. I'm taking the article for what is says. smh🙄
Unfortunately for you the article is clear as day for anyone to read. You expect people to take
"trust me, bro" over a super credible source from ESPN and coach Rick Barnes himself.
Goos luck with that lol

Frankly, I would be ashamed if I was you. Having to call a good man a liar because you're too stubborn to admit you got out over your skis
and was wrong about Dickey specifically being the reason Barnes wouldn't take the job here.

The fact that you couldn't at least acknowledge that quote that directly contradicts what you said tells anymore everything they need to know about your level of honesty. I knew you wouldn't address that just like I knew you would purposefully ignore all the highlights that I gave you.

You’re just a dishonest person. Not much more to be said about that.
 
#248
#248
EZE said:
I read the quote from Barnes where he said he was approached by Tenn twice before about the job. He said he declined interest because of the SEC’s reputation for only being a football league at the time.

It was in the recent article that discussed the rise of SEC basketball.

But, thankfully, Bruce Pearl showed up at Tenn and single handedly elevated SEC basketball to where it is today. Florida? Forget Billy Donovan. They are good because of Bruce.
Click to expand...
I like how the blue highlights your non sequitur and strawman.
Bruce Pearl was a part of the rise of SEC.
Nobody said he single handedly brought it to prominence. At the time he was here, one could definitely say that about him at Tennessee if they wanted to, tho. For sure had the biggest hand in the modern era besides Barnes.

We were basically a blip on the radar in the landscape of college basketball programs before him.
We're a "New Blood" program today that gets some respect in a league that is getting respect, and you can't divorce Pearl or Barnes from that.

They both will forever be apart of Tennessee basketball history and talked about in it's rise to greatness.
 
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#249
#249
Thunder Good-Oil said:
He’s claiming that Barnes was offered the UT head coaching job in 1989 by Dickey after Devoe was fired. I’m calling bull****. Pat Kennedy was the top target and he turned TN down to remain at Florida State. Then Wade Houston or Leonard Hamilton were the fall back options. The argumentative clown claims that Barnes turned down Dickey in 1989 because ESPN has an article by Chris Low that says Barnes claims to have “met” with UT about the opening. Somehow in his simple mind that means Barnes turned TN down.

He also claims that Barnes says he wasn’t going to take the TN job when it was available several years later because UT (and the SEC) didn’t take basketball seriously and emphasized football instead. Despite Barnes being the basketball coach at Clemson and Texas where they emphasized football. Despite TN building the largest on campus basketball facility in the country. Despite all of the Hall of Fame players and coaches that were attending SEC schools.

His original claim is that Barnes OWES Bruce Pearl a debt of gratitude for putting UT’s program in such a terrific place which is why Barnes has been successful.

Then he’s been filling up page after page with his nonsensical trolling and post after post of deflecting and moving goal posts.
Click to expand...
Yeah I read the article and there’s a direct quote from Barnes insinuating as much:

The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball.

When Tennessee fired Don DeVoe following the 1989 season, Barnes met with then-Tennessee athletic director Doug Dickey about the job. Barnes remembers telling journalist and close friend John Feinstein and Gavitt, who remained a mentor to Barnes until his death in 2011, about the Tennessee interview.

"They both said, 'You can't take that job. They don't care about basketball. You're already in a basketball league,'" Barnes said. "That was the perception, and it didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey. That's just where the league was. They were set on being the best football league in the country.”
 
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#250
#250
AthensVol2007 said:
Yeah I read the article and there’s a direct quote from Barnes insinuating as much:

The school twice tried to hire Barnes when he was younger, the first time when he was at Providence and then again when he was at Clemson. He simply wasn't sold on the SEC's commitment to basketball.

When Tennessee fired Don DeVoe following the 1989 season, Barnes met with then-Tennessee athletic director Doug Dickey about the job. Barnes remembers telling journalist and close friend John Feinstein and Gavitt, who remained a mentor to Barnes until his death in 2011, about the Tennessee interview.

"They both said, 'You can't take that job. They don't care about basketball. You're already in a basketball league,'" Barnes said. "That was the perception, and it didn't have anything to do with Doug Dickey. That's just where the league was. They were set on being the best football league in the country.”
Click to expand...

It’s reckless writing to suggest that “met with” means “tried to hire”. By that standard Dickey “tried to hire” about 2 dozen coaches in 1989.

Pat Kennedy was offered the job to replace Devoe. When he turned it down it fell to Houston or Hamilton. Dickey wanted to hire Leonard Hamilton. Alexander dictated that Wade Houston be offered the job instead. Rick Barnes wasn’t in play and didn’t even have a rèsumè with any bullet points better than Devoe’s. Houston and Hamilton were both recent assistants on national championship teams that were elite recruiters. Not being able to recruit effectively was why Devoe was let go.
 
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