Penn State scandal (merged)

#3,701
#3,701
Joe's the one with the money! The money is what they are all after first. Jerry Sandusky's attorney's are going to get all his money and the original DA that botched the case is MIA.
 
#3,702
#3,702
LawVol13 said:
Hey genius, maybe you should consider that he does have criminal culpability like multiple people have been saying. That's why he hired a lawyer.
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When did I ever say he wouldn't be charged? Being charged doesnt mean ****. Dude you wont be a good lawyer.
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#3,705
#3,705
LawVol13 said:
Coming from someone as clueless as you, that's a compliment.
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Not clueless. From what we know he didn't commit a crime. He reported it to his superior which has been stated is what he was legally required to do. So if things change and more stuff is learned about him bejnf involved in a cover up then be should be charged. At this point it's just grandstanding.
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#3,707
#3,707
Vols520 said:
Not clueless. From what we know he didn't commit a crime. He reported it to his superior which has been stated is what he was legally required to do. So if things change and more stuff is learned about him bejnf involved in a cover up then be should be charged. At this point it's just grandstanding.
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You're absolutely wrong. I've explained it a million times.
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#3,711
#3,711
Smartest thing he's done thus far. If you're being criminally investigated lawyering up is probably not a bad idea. Even if he knows he did no wrong doing he still needs to get a lawyer. I'm not here to debate what he did or did not do. But if I'm being investigated for something I'm getting a lawyer. However I would have chosen Robert Shapiro.
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#3,712
#3,712
therealUT said:
I would not be too quick to label them cowards. David Grossman goes into the psychology of this type of thing in either "On Killing" or "On Combat". Basically, according to Grossman, either through nurture or nature, you are predisposed to be either a Sheep, a Sheepdog, or a Wolf. A great majority are predisposed to be sheep; only tiny minorities are sheepdogs and wolves.

Sheepdogs and wolfs, though diabolically opposed, can understand each other. They are both actors and use aggression to accomplish their purpose. Neither sheepdogs nor wolves can understand sheep.

That said, society requires sheep and, since Wolves are around, also requires sheepdogs; the sheep should no more look down upon the dogs than the dogs should look down on the sheep. They both have essential roles to fill in society.
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On the left hand you cite Immanuel Kant. On the right hand you cite a military "philosopher" who has made up a fantastical model of society in which almost everybody is literally a sheep except, of course, for a few virtuous few alpha males who choose professions in which you get to carry guns around, just like -- shockingly! -- Dave Grossman himself. "How fortunate that I'm at the apex of society in this model that I just made up! Amazing!"

His model isn't anything other than sheer self-aggrandizement and masturbation. You're like a guy who spouts Kierkegaard and Anthony Robbins in the same breath. Apparently you'll swallow everything.
 
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#3,714
#3,714
dembewbs said:
Smartest thing he's done thus far. If you're being criminally investigated lawyering up is probably not a bad idea. Even if he knows he did no wrong doing he still needs to get a lawyer. I'm not here to debate what he did or did not do. But if I'm being investigated for something I'm getting a lawyer. However I would have chosen Robert Shapiro.
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Shapiro? Have you not noticed that every single attorney ever associated with defending OJ is either dead or a reformed do-gooder? Shapiro...please. That guy has about ten years of bad karma left to burn.
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#3,715
#3,715
Vercingetorix said:
On the left hand you cite Immanuel Kant. On the right hand you cite a military "philosopher" who has made up a fantastical model of society in which almost everybody is literally a sheep except, of course, for a few virtuous few alpha males who choose professions in which you get to carry guns around, just like -- shockingly! -- Dave Grossman himself. "How fortunate that I'm at the apex of society in this model that I just made up! Amazing!"

His model isn't anything other than sheer self-aggrandizement and masturbation. You're like a guy who spouts Kierkegaard and Anthony Robbins in the same breath. Apparently you'll swallow everything.
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He's a smart guy, but he's so far removed from reality that it's just quite sad.
 
#3,716
#3,716
LawVol13 said:
He's a smart guy, but he's so far removed from reality that it's just quite sad.
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He sounds like just about 19 year old that's had two semesters of college philosophy. Three percent of them fork off into the the bowels of the philosophy department and are never heard from again. The rest of them grow up.
 
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#3,717
#3,717
Lawvol, are you in law school?

This hire was made for potential criminal charges and inevitable civil litigation. Sollers has a lot of experience in criminal and civil litigation, was co-counsel for Bush 1 in the Iran-Contra Investigation, and is managing partner of one of the best firms in D.C.

Read these sections of the Pennsylvania Code and see if you think he will be charged.


23 Pa.C.S.A. Section 6311: Persons Required to Report Suspected Child Abuse:

(a) General rule.--A person who, in the course of employment, occupation or practice of a profession, comes into contact with children shall report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313 (relating to reporting procedure) when the person has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of medical, professional or other training and experience, that a child under the care, supervision, guidance or training of that person or of an agency, institution, organization or other entity with which that person is affiliated is a victim of child abuse, including child abuse by an individual who is not a perpetrator.

b) Enumeration of persons required to report.--Persons required to report under subsection (a) include, but are not limited to, any licensed physician, osteopath, medical examiner, coroner, funeral director, dentist, optometrist, chiropractor, podiatrist, intern, registered nurse, licensed practical nurse, hospital personnel engaged in the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons, Christian Science practitioner, member of the clergy, school administrator, school teacher, school nurse, social services worker, day-care center worker or any other child-care or foster-care worker, mental health professional, peace officer or law enforcement official.

(c) Staff members of institutions, etc.--Whenever a person is required to report under subsection (b) in the capacity as a member of the staff of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, that person shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school, facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge. Upon notification, the person in charge or the designated agent, if any, shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313. This chapter does not require more than one report from any such institution, school, facility or agency.

23 Pa.C.S.A. Section 6318: Immunity from Liability

(a) General rule.--A person, hospital, institution, school, facility, agency or agency employee that participates in good faith in the making of a report, whether required or not, cooperating with an investigation, including providing information to a child fatality or near fatality review team, testifying in a proceeding arising out of an instance of suspected child abuse, the taking of photographs or the removal or keeping of a child pursuant to section 6315 (relating to taking child into protective custody), and any official or employee of a county agency who refers a report of suspected abuse to law enforcement authorities or provides services under this chapter, shall have immunity from civil and criminal liability that might otherwise result by reason of those actions.

(b) Presumption of good faith.--For the purpose of any civil or criminal proceeding, the good faith of a person required to report pursuant to section 6311 (relating to persons required to report suspected child abuse) and of any person required to make a referral to law enforcement officers under this chapter shall be presumed.

23 Pa.C.S.A. 6319: Penalties for Failure to Report:

A person or official required by this chapter to report a case of suspected child abuse or to make a referral to the appropriate authorities who willfully fails to do so commits a misdemeanor of the third degree for the first violation and a misdemeanor of the second degree for a second or subsequent violation.
 
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#3,718
#3,718
Upon notification, the person in charge or the designated agent, if any, shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with section 6313. This chapter does not require more than one report from any such institution, school, facility or agency.
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And according to what you posted and to what I have put in bold red letters - does not meet the requirements of PA state law. Paterno reported the situation to the AD - but did not relay what he knew to local or state police. To be in accordance, the AD or Paterno should have reported what they knew to state police and not campus police. Without the crime being reported to the state, both the AD and Paterno are culpable.
 
#3,719
#3,719
KoachKletus said:
And according to what you posted and to what I have put in bold red letters - does not meet the requirements of PA state law. Paterno reported the situation to the AD - but did not relay what he knew to local or state police. To be in accordance, the AD or Paterno should have reported what they knew to state police and not campus police. Without the crime being reported to the state, both the AD and Paterno are culpable.
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Serious question. Why isn't Mcqueary in as much trouble? Is he not legally obligated to go to police?
 
#3,720
#3,720
Vercingetorix said:
On the left hand you cite Immanuel Kant. On the right hand you cite a military "philosopher" who has made up a fantastical model of society in which almost everybody is literally a sheep except, of course, for a few virtuous few alpha males who choose professions in which you get to carry guns around, just like -- shockingly! -- Dave Grossman himself. "How fortunate that I'm at the apex of society in this model that I just made up! Amazing!"

His model isn't anything other than sheer self-aggrandizement and masturbation. You're like a guy who spouts Kierkegaard and Anthony Robbins in the same breath. Apparently you'll swallow everything.
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As I said yesterday regarding the philpsophical reading approach to life, you can justify almost anything under the sun with the writings / musings / stoned ramblings of accepted geniuses. It is the perfect way to build a world absolutely void of absolutes, moral or otherwise.
 
#3,721
#3,721
rmsmith said:
Serious question. Why isn't Mcqueary in as much trouble? Is he not legally obligated to go to police?
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We don't know how much trouble any of them are in really. We have read the grand jury indictment, but all the evidence they have is not in there. So to say how much and who at this point really doesn't matter because we don't know. That being said I don't know how he still has a job. I for one, thought he would be dismissed from his job when the old bastard got fired. Law has gone into this a bunch I am sure, but the old bastard and McQueary did what they needed, and that was it. Why neither did more, that is debatable, but most of have our ideas why. The legal issue for those two obviously will be the cover up, I would imagine and civil lawsuits. Law will correct and add to any if I am incorrect.
 
#3,722
#3,722
knucklehead_vol said:
We don't know how much trouble any of them are in really. We have read the grand jury indictment, but all the evidence they have is not in there. So to say how much and who at this point really doesn't matter because we don't know. That being said I don't know how he still has a job. I for one, thought he would be dismissed from his job when the old bastard got fired. Law has gone into this a bunch I am sure, but the old bastard and McQueary did what they needed, and that was it. Why neither did more, that is debatable, but most of have our ideas why. The legal issue for those two obviously will be the cover up, I would imagine and civil lawsuits. Law will correct and add to any if I am incorrect.
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He's in some trouble no doubt.

Penn State assistant coach Mike McQueary won't be at Nebraska game 'due to multiple threats' against him, university says | PennLive.com
 
#3,723
#3,723
therealUT said:
I would not be too quick to label them cowards. David Grossman goes into the psychology of this type of thing in either "On Killing" or "On Combat". Basically, according to Grossman, either through nurture or nature, you are predisposed to be either a Sheep, a Sheepdog, or a Wolf. A great majority are predisposed to be sheep; only tiny minorities are sheepdogs and wolves.

Sheepdogs and wolfs, though diabolically opposed, can understand each other. They are both actors and use aggression to accomplish their purpose. Neither sheepdogs nor wolves can understand sheep.

That said, society requires sheep and, since Wolves are around, also requires sheepdogs; the sheep should no more look down upon the dogs than the dogs should look down on the sheep. They both have essential roles to fill in society.
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There is a pretty well-known story about MQ breaking up a fight on campus. Seems he had some wolf in him and probably feels he failed in this instance. Here is a paragraph from the article linked below:

McQueary is a guy who once stepped in and broke up a player-related knife fight in a campus dining hall — a fight police admit could have been very ugly. But this week, he is getting blasted by the public for doing too little.
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A Patriot-News Special Report: Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995 | PennLive.com
 
#3,724
#3,724
LawVol13 said:
Great response. I'm looking forward to reading why he would hire a criminal defense lawyer since there's no way he could be charged with a crime.
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Being charged with a crime is vastly different than being guilty of a crime. According to the Attorney General, Paterno should not be charged with any crime; that does not mean it is out of the realm of possibilities.
 
#3,725
#3,725
LawVol13 said:
Hey genius, maybe you should consider that he does have criminal culpability like multiple people have been speculating. That's why he hired a lawyer.
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As of this point, I will rely on the Attorney General's findings. If more facts come out, my opinion might change according to the facts. It scares me to think that you want to be a prosecutor and you presume guilt without being privy to evidence that proves guilt.
 
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